Kingsbury’s learning curve.

[Krangodnzr]

He was under pressure on 40% of his throws last year..... Just above the NFL average of 34%.

So my answer is..... The clean pocket he had on 6 out of 10 throws.

In Josh's defense, the clean pockets are affected by the pressure as well. QBs lose composure.

Murray lost his composure at times in the Alabama game because he started sending pressure when it wasn't there.

 

[slanidrac16]

Because the top 10 players in this draft +/- aren’t offensive players. There are 10 other picks in the draft, not counting the ability to trade back or get back into the 1st round, where we can address the offense.

Furthermore, Kliff came to AZ with the intention of working with Rosen. When i was given heads-up about Kliff coming to AZ from my guy with USC connections, this was explicitly stated. At some point, Kliff sold himself on Josh. Of course, things could change, but I know that Kliff believes he could work with Josh.

Tj, we just don’t know what went on in the meeting when Kingsbury was hired. His famous declaration of Murray last fall, the fact that he already had the USC job, the fact of his personal relationship with Murray and sharing the same agent then Murray declaring he was entering the draft I believe the very next day after KK’s hiring could signify a correlation. Maybe even the final negotiation part for Kingsbury’s to accept the job that Murray was part of his “need”. Consider it was something the Jets would not agree to and it was something the Cards could guarantee since we have the first pick. We will never really know but it’s not that far fetched for the Cards to get their guy and for KK to quit USC.

 

[dscher]

Because the top 10 players in this draft +/- aren’t offensive players. There are 10 other picks in the draft, not counting the ability to trade back or get back into the 1st round, where we can address the offense.

Furthermore, Kliff came to AZ with the intention of working with Rosen. When i was given heads-up about Kliff coming to AZ from my guy with USC connections, this was explicitly stated. At some point, Kliff sold himself on Josh. Of course, things could change, but I know that Kliff believes he could work with Josh.

Not going to disagree with any of your points. But imo, it just all seems too coincidental at this point. I mean he gets hired and then the next day Kyler declares.. he has the viral video we all know about. Sure, smokescreen is a possibility with all this.. I'm just leaning the other way is all. We also don't know where the cards have him rated in this whole process even before Kingsbury . Maybe that was one of his selling points for getting the job.. maybe they had a verbal on both ends. Who the heck knows!? Lol. But it sure is fun to speculate

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

I agree one thing no Murray fanboys have talked about either is just how many snaps did he take under center. Now I don't know because I hate Oklahoma football have since the days of Billy Sims. And the second question I have ask before if and when KK flames out how can Murray adapt to others systems. From what little I have read he is pretty much just a air raid type QB according to most articles I've seen so that is a few questions that really have to answered

As another poster said in another thread, Kyler Murray wouldn't even be considered if the cardinals hadn't hired KK as the coach.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Regarding under center comments.

You must be registered for see images attach

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

KK has a lot to learn.

He needs to learn how to win at this level.

He needs to teach the 2 minute offense to team. His 2 minute O

He needs to learn how and teach how to make a comeback and to hold a lead.

He needs to instruct the D how to hold a lead without using the prevent defense, which as we know doesn't work.

He needs to learn how to call a game at this level and to make adaptations on the fly.

There are many other areas he needs to learn and experience and it will either hone him or sink him.

Imo he will. That's why the cardinals surrounded him with solid coaches, they knew he could call plays to score points but was lacking in other areas, the ones you mentioned. This way he mainly has to worry about calling plays only, even though he will have the final say on everything. I would bet anything that SK & MB told KK they were going to hire all the assistant coaches & he didn't have much say in it. The way it looks, the only assistant coach KK was allowed to bring in on his own was the WR's coach, all the others were all from the front office. KK couldn't argue, has no ties really to coaches in the NFL. I like the staff they hired. Solid, very solid. I think the cardinals will surprise some teams this yr.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Well how is he going to ignore one side of the ball?

Vance Joseph will take care of the defense.

You my friend are 100% correct. SK & MB knew which areas KK struggled with but calling plays wasn't one of them. They went out & hired him the best staff possible. He'll concentrate on calling the best plays possible & let VJ run the defense.

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Nonsense Dr.Jones.Anti-Rosen bias showing much......even mentioning Skelton with Rosen...is ridiculous.

Skelton was a joke, not even in the same galaxy as Josh Rosen lol.

 

[ARZCardinals]

It's a fast offense that'll help the O line on passing downs...but even as fast as the offense is without a lot more talent up front I don't think KK will be able to do what he wants to schematically.
Scheme always look good until your QB has a hand on him 1.5 seconds after the play ....play after play after play....then scheme goes out the window, free agency is done, there's no more draft and you got a poo pile at O line (like last year) and it's 3 and out 3 and out 3 and out 3 and out and your defense is killing you

Cards still need a ton of help at O line

Humphries - He's alright

LG - Sweezy - dang good running - below average passing

C- Mason Cole or AJ - yea no good

RG - Pugh? - was way below average last year - barely hit 50 on PFF and like PFF or not it shows how horrible he was passing and running.

T - Gilbert (could be amazing!!!!) but his injury history says you better be ready for a backup.

The O line NEEDS addressing or they're going nowhere

Last years tape - teams ran 3 d lineman vs Cards 4 O lineman and they were still hitting the QB within 2.5 seconds.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Well...... it has been shown that he developed a "hitch" in his motion as the year moved on. His reads took a fraction longer and the hitch added to his motion causing many late throws.

I wouldn't say always..... But I wouldn't say it wasn't true either.

the dude bonked some easy short throws, had many other outright drops, made some horrible reads causing many picks (some for TD's), and seemed to become skittish in the pocket as the season wore on.

He also made a few.... Maybe 10? total HOF level throws that keep us tantalized. But so did SCUD & Skelton every once in a while.

I thought he turned into David Carr by the end of the year. Just hearing footsteps when there were none

 

[ARZCardinals]

I thought he turned into David Carr by the end of the year. Just hearing footsteps when there were none

Agreed, but Rosen wasn't just hearing footsteps....they were there

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Agreed, but Rosen wasn't just hearing footsteps....they were there

Again I hate to inject stats into things but...

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Rosen was under pressure....but he was only under pressure about 5% more than decent pass protection in the league.

That is 2 more pass attempts per game then any number of high performing QBs.

Good QBs deal with pressure. They don't develop hitches. They don't rank in the 30s in every measurable accuracy catagory

 

[DVontel]

Again I hate to inject stats into things but...

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

That....accounts for 1 game. Not the season. Did you do a double check?

Says a lot when he was getting pressured like that against the Chiefs’ defense even though Chris Jones is very good.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

That says season including playoffs

 

[Jetstream Green]

Rosen was under pressure....but he was only under pressure about 5% more than decent pass protection in the league.

That is 2 more pass attempts per game then any number of high performing QBs.

Good QBs deal with pressure. They don't develop hitches. They don't rank in the 30s in every measurable accuracy catagory

Also depends what offensive scheme they are armed with, the quality of their WRs, and the amount of rookies other than themselves being on the field... I cannot recall one team which surrounded a QB with such a crapalicious scenario

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Also depends what offensive scheme they are armed with, the quality of their WRs, and the amount of rookies other than themselves being on the field... I cannot recall one team which surrounded a QB with such a crapalisious scenario

Arizona receivers were dead NFL average in drops. Several good QBs had to deal with a higher drop percentage that Rosen.

Again, every QB deals with drops. Every QB deals with pressure. Every QB deals with schemes.

Only one has produced a QB #37 season

 

[Chris_Sanders]

22 QBs had less time to throw then Rosen last year

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-time-to-throw

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Holy crap every time I go down this rabbit hole he just sucks more

 

[Jetstream Green]

Arizona receivers were dead NFL average in drops. Several good QBs had to deal with a higher drop percentage that Rosen.

Again, every QB deals with drops. Every QB deals with pressure. Every QB deals with schemes.

Only one has produced a QB #37 season

What about a crappy offensive scheme which got the OC fired and then a rookie OC had to take over and basically use the same skewed system and then by the end of the year having an offense which field as much as seven rookies during an offensive snap at one time with a majority of the rookies being late round or undrafted free agents... how about those apples for a rookie QB, no bueno

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Sure, he had some challenges. He overcame none of them. Zero. There is no stat that exists he was even league average.

Because he isn't league average.

 

[Proximo]

Arizona receivers were dead NFL average in drops. Several good QBs had to deal with a higher drop percentage that Rosen.

Again, every QB deals with drops. Every QB deals with pressure. Every QB deals with schemes.

Only one has produced a QB #37 season

They just don't want to deal with the facts. I appreciate you continuing to present them.

I wanted to love Rosen, but he did not produce well for even a single game. Yes our coaching and our line and receivers stunk - but he was still missing wide open guys and overthrowing regularly.

I did not like his attitude in the meetings with the press either, he really put forth an I don't really care vibe to me. The more I have reflected the more I think he is not the answer going forward.

 

[DVontel]

That says season including playoffs

.......

Look over it 3 more times. If you still don’t understand, I’ll do it for you.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Sure, he had some challenges. He overcame none of them. Zero. There is no stat that exists he was even league average.

Because he isn't league average.

Challenges? That is like saying a ACL injury is minor. The Cardinals where the biggest clusterflip I ever saw watching a pro team just from a coaching standpoint

 

[Chris_Sanders]

.......

Look over it 3 more times. If you still don’t understand, I’ll do it for you.

I understand that for the Chargers it is one game. I am saying that he was within 5% pressure rate of what is normal for the league or about 2 passes a game.

Do you comprehend the point now or do you need a chart to explain the percentages?