Kiper's take on Cards

[john h]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/91416/kiper-mock-2-0-cardinals-thoughts

Seems like 70% of forecasters have us taking Fisher. I just do not see that as our best choice. Yes he had a super Senior Bowl but that was one game. His history in college (small school) was not worthy of an NFL #7 pick.

 

[BW52]

I say BS John.If the guy has a outstanding combine and the coaching staff and other powers that be feel he is the pick then his school doesn`t mean jacksh*t.How many round 1 picks come from the big svhools and conferences and flop? Quite a bunch.The talent will show .

 

[Jetstream Green]

I tend to agree with john h when it is a team picking 7th overall. Now, if the coaching staff and scouts still believe he is the pick, then a dude coming from his situation would have to have Eric Swann like freakish ability that overrides all the other concerns. If Warmack in there at 7 and we pick Fisher....oh well. I just come from this school of thought, these guys are drafted to be football players and not gym rats. If you want an accurate idea what kind of football player you have, then you look at kid's resume on film where he was playing football. The combine for me is more like confirmation for the film and not the other way around

 

[john h]

I tend to agree with john h when it is a team picking 7th overall. Now, if the coaching staff and scouts still believe he is the pick, then a dude coming from his situation would have to have Eric Swann like freakish ability that overrides all the other concerns. If Warmack in there at 7 and we pick Fisher....oh well. I just come from this school of thought, these guys are drafted to be football players and not gym rats. If you want an accurate idea what kind of football player you have, then you look at kid's resume on film where he was playing football. The combine for me is more like confirmation for the film and not the other way around

The combine is just part of the equation. Many players do not even attend the combine. Mitch posted this week some interesting stats on just where the good starting QBs come from in the draft. It was more than obvious most come out of round one and high in round one. It is not the combine or senior bowl that sells the teams on drafting them or not. The teams look at those but if you want the real history on these guys you look at film until you are sick of looking at film. Some players are so good that by the time the draft rolls around you know they are special.

Hopefully our new drafting specialist on our team can work through all this and find a winner no matter his position. At this point it is no lock we will even draft a lineman. We may make a trade for a QB prior to the draft or sign some FA OT which could change everything. With all the Fisher talk I looked up his history the best I could and IMHO he is a risk at the #7 slot.

 

[ARZCardinals]

If he played against weak DE's you have NO evaluation on him.

the scouting combine is GARBAGE...means NOTHING.

Look at every super combine guy from a small school....they amount to nothing.

If they take a T that hasn't gone against major DE's...they are gonna get KILLED in the NFL.

Keim isn't that stupid.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If he played against weak DE's you have NO evaluation on him.

the scouting combine is GARBAGE...means NOTHING.

Look at every super combine guy from a small school....they amount to nothing.

If they take a T that hasn't gone against major DE's...they are gonna get KILLED in the NFL.

Keim isn't that stupid.

I couldn't disagree more. The combine is very important. It's not the end-all, be-all but it is a very valuable tool. It should never be the only tool but used properly it can help answer a lot of questions caused by the variety (in scheme, talent level, opposition etc) that exists in college football.

Steve

 

[BW52]

I couldn't disagree more. The combine is very important. It's not the end-all, be-all but it is a very valuable tool. It should never be the only tool but used properly it can help answer a lot of questions caused by the variety (in scheme, talent level, opposition etc) that exists in college football.

Steve

Agree.The people who have the job of evaluating talent use every available tool to decide on a players worth.Fisher held his own in the Senior Bowl Workouts and the game and if the combine convinces the staff so be it. .To simply scorn a prospect because he didn`t go to Big STATE Football factory is dumb.

 

[Vermont Maverick]

Keim is all about BPA. One of the things that everyone is pointing to is that he wanted AP when we took Levi. There is no way he is reaching for the second best OT, Fisher, in his first draft as the GM. No way.

Warmack I could see. Though that is more of a need, Warmack is the once in a decade guy that you can take there, even if he is a guard.

 

[joeshmo]

Keim is all about BPA.

I think what Mikey said on the radio recently was the most telling thing he has said or will say this whole off season - "Every time we reached for a player we made a mistake."

 

[WildBB]

I think what Mikey said on the radio recently was the most telling thing he has said or will say this whole off season - "Every time we reached for a player we made a mistake."

Would Jarvis Jones be a mistake? Fisher goes no later than 11 to SD RIGHT NOW.

 

[Garthshort]

John H, are you talking about Fisher, Big Ben or Jerry Rice? I'm confused.

 

[Jetstream Green]

John H, are you talking about Fisher, Big Ben or Jerry Rice? I'm confused.

No, John is talking about a host of other players from small schools that did not work out or their value end up equaling when they were taken this ealry. Big Ben and Jerry Rice are exceptions and I do not see a majority of people at this time truthfully who would go as far to say Fisher deserves to be seen in the same light at these exceptional players. He might end up being a great player but for his current situation Fisher is more reach than stud

 

[SissyBoyFloyd]

Every one of these mock drafts are simply copying the thought process of the others. They know the Cards have a horrible OL, but know nothing more than that. They don't consider who all we drafted last year. The only thought they have on Levi is that he must stink to high heaven. And they surely aren't thinking of our need a running game which begins with the OGs which I feel now is the weakest part of our team.

All these guys know and here is of all the sacks and injuries to our QBs. They never watch the Cards game to learn anything specific. It is all about if your QB is getting sacked then you must need better OTs.

The OL is like a chain. If there is any weak part the whole thing breaks. So you strengthen the weakest parts first, don't you?

All of these guys don't have time to examine every team equally. And I am sure the Cards are never near the top of their list.

 

[THESMEL]

I've graded from this 1-100 system for years now- I adjust it from Scouts.com and CBS evaluations- I twist it to adapt to current roster and FA's.

ESPN link on right side with free grades
http://espn.go.com/nfl/draft

1. Star LotuleleiDTUtah96
2. Luke Joeckel*OTTexas A&M96
3. Dee Milliner*CBAlabama96
4. Chance WarmackGAlabama95
5. Eric FisherOTC. Michigan95
6. Kenny VaccaroSTexas95
7. Shariff Floyd*DTFlorida95
8. Barkevious Mingo*DELSU95

CBS links with more in depth reports
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2013

Scouts.com link- kind of fell on their butts last year-but you can track Graves and Whiz's failure back if your bored.
http://profootball.scout.com/a.z?s=127&p=9&c=12&yr=2012&nid=83&lnid=83&rc=16&cti=a

 

[DoTheDew]

I think what Mikey said on the radio recently was the most telling thing he has said or will say this whole off season - "Every time we reached for a player we made a mistake."

Right. But there's a place between pure BPA and reaching for need. It's a place where you see that there's 5-10 guys sitting there that your scouts put on roughly an equal level and you take the one that best fits your team over the guy who's very slightly better but will be buried on your depth chart. It's rare, especially early in the 1st round, that you have 1 guy who's rated way ahead of everyone else sitting there and you feel compelled to take him regardless of position.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Like I said in another thread, Keim better not be stupid enough to take a tackle from the Mid-American Conference with the 7th overall pick.

Level of competition is definitely a factor. That's why you don't see guys from Ball St. being drafted in round 1, much less the top 10.

 

[Garthshort]

Cbus, you and Jetstream might want to notify Steve K. that you both are available as Consultants and can save him a lot of time and money. I admit I have no idea how good Fisher is but think it might be a good idea to let the scouts make the call on him. Personally, I hope we draft the Alabama OG, because I think our OT's (Brown, Massie and Potter) are better than our guards (Colledge and Snyder). And with the two of you as Consultants, I'll take a future Jerry Rice and Big Ben off my wish list.

 

[JeffGollin]

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/91416/kiper-mock-2-0-cardinals-thoughts

Seems like 70% of forecasters have us taking Fisher. I just do not see that as our best choice. Yes he had a super Senior Bowl but that was one game. His history in college (small school) was not worthy of an NFL #7 pick.

John - you're not conducting a stealth pimp of Tyler Wilson are you?

All things being equal, I think Fisher meets a big need and represents good value overall at #7. That said - if Steve Keim waved his magic wand and got us one of the small number of FA tackles (like, say, Long, Albert or Bushrod), I could see us going in several directions (including Warmack, an edge-rusher and even a trade-down option (if we didn't trade ourselves out of a quality player).

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Cbus, you and Jetstream might want to notify Steve K. that you both are available as Consultants and can save him a lot of time and money. I admit I have no idea how good Fisher is but think it might be a good idea to let the scouts make the call on him. Personally, I hope we draft the Alabama OG, because I think our OT's (Brown, Massie and Potter) are better than our guards (Colledge and Snyder). And with the two of you as Consultants, I'll take a future Jerry Rice and Big Ben off my wish list.

I'll let him know and you let me know when a non-QB from the MAC level conference gets drafted in the top 10. I'll get you started....
2012-nope
2011-nope
2010-nope
2009-nope
2008-nope
2007-nope
2006-nope
2005-nope
2004-nope
2003-nope
2002-nope

there's 10 years, you can take it from there. So, I guess you're saying Eric Fisher is perhaps the GREATEST MAC OL propsect in the past decade plus, (I'm sure much longer than that), to come along if you want him at #7.

 

[GuernseyCard]

I'll let him know and you let me know when a non-QB from the MAC level conference gets drafted in the top 10. I'll get you started....
2012-nope
2011-nope
2010-nope
2009-nope
2008-nope
2007-nope
2006-nope
2005-nope
2004-nope
2003-nope
2002-nope

there's 10 years, you can take it from there. So, I guess you're saying Eric Fisher is perhaps the GREATEST MAC OL propsect in the past decade plus, (I'm sure much longer than that), to come along if you want him at #7.

Wouldn't take him at #7, but, some team may be getting the next Joe Staley, from the MAC.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Wouldn't take him at #7, but, some team may be getting the next Joe Staley, from the MAC.

That's a good comparison and about where Fisher should be drafted, #28, like Staley was.

 

[GuernseyCard]

That's a good comparison and about where Fisher should be drafted, #28, like Staley was.

But, knowing what they now know, Staley wouldn't be there at #28 today.

 

[JeffGollin]

Level of competition is definitely a factor. That's why you don't see guys from Ball St. being drafted in round 1, much less the top 10.

Extending that logic, Jerry Rice (Miss Valley St.) and Randy Moss (Marshall) should have been drafted later as should Phil Simms of Morehead State, Marcellus Wiley (Columbia), Aeneas Williams (Southern), Eric Swann (Nowhere U.) etc. etc.

And I'm pretty sure Shafer Suggs (Ball St.) did pretty well as a pro.

It's harder (& riskier) to draft small school players (because you have to isolate how they look on their own as athletes with little basis for comparison), but if you make this a hard and fast rule (including bypassing Fisher) you're going to pass up some very good dudes.

 

[LuckyNumber11]

I love Fisher think he moves great and can block just about anyone. He is easily the 2nd best tackle in the draft, behind Joekel of course. And he is probably tied for third on my Cardinals big board with Warmack. Fisher is a great talent

 

[Buckybird]

That's a good comparison and about where Fisher should be drafted, #28, like Staley was.

If he's good enough, it doesn't matter where he's drafted...remember a guy named Eric Swann? I hear what your saying, but most of the busts in early rounds (1-2) probably come from most major universities.

IMHO I'm still not sure the Cards will draft an OT this year, given the youngsters we have & many other needs.