Kneel and Punt One Week Later

[Chris_Sanders]

Hmm....

3-17-ARI 32 (8:21) (Shotgun) 34-R.Williams up the middle ran ob at PHI 43 for 25 yards (59-D.Ryans).

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Fortunately no one knew that we were running.

...hmm...

Well you can't put a rookie in that position back to back Whiz! How will he respond?

Hmm....

 

[Buckybird]

Hmm....

Fire Wiz lol

 

[Cardiac]

Interesting that Whiz has been labeled as someone who kills players confidence and puts them in the doghouse. Yet how many examples do we have showing the opposite?

Cards are one of three undefeated teams this year but let's not give him any credit.

It must have all been Warner, Haley and now Horton.

Okay rant over.

Go CARDS.

 

[Darkside]

Fortunately no one knew that we were running.

...hmm...

Well you can't put a rookie in that position back to back Whiz! How will he respond?

Hmm....

Love the fact that Whis even pitched it to him again as we were trying to grind clock. That's good coaching and a great way to make Williams forget about last week. It's great when you can learn lessons and still win (last week) and then use those lessons to secure a win this week.

 

[A fan who cares]

I love the fact that R. Williams had 80 something yards with 13 carries and at the same time, L. McCoy got 70 yards with 13 carries as well. Goes to show you gotta have faith in your players.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Love that Ryan Williams put in some time on the treadmill since the Patriots' game. He said he did it for a long time with a football in his arm and he switched arms every two minutes. He also said he doesn't want to fumble again the entire year.

 

[Cards_Campos]

Just because he gained 25 yards on a DRAW play mind you...from a blitzing defense...which would have been a MUCH better call last week.. Hmmmmm You don't pitch the ball to a rookie with the game on the line....Say what you want...but New England choked last week. Yes I am on cloud nine we are 3-0...And Whiz deserves alot of props for this win today. But last week and this week are completely different. Up 18 with 8 minutes to go and up 2 with a minute to go on the road is different. Just my opinion.

 

[Stout]

Oh, yes, it worked once, so it clearly has a high percentage of happening, gaining over 10 yards on a 3rd and long with a draw, all the time...with no risk of fumbling, of course People disagree...maybe stop fanning the flames?

 

[Pariah]

It doesn't matter if it worked or not. You don't punt on third down and you don't give up a down unless it's a victory formation situation.

Of the hundreds of thousands of times teams have played a third down situation as in the patriots game I'll bet there are less than a handful of cases when a team has rolled over like was suggested on this board last week.

 

[Stout]

It doesn't matter if it worked or not. You don't punt on third down and you don't give up a down unless it's a victory formation situation.

Of the hundreds of thousands of times teams have played a third down situation as in the patriots game I'll bet there are less than a handful of cases when a team has rolled over like was suggested on this board last week.

Um, nobody said we should have punted on third down, so...yeah, no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Pariah]

Um, nobody said we should have punted on third down, so...yeah, no idea what you're talking about.

You're sacrificing your third down with a kneel. So...yeah, you're basically punting on third--a down where you have a chance to gain yardage and keep playing offense.

Teams don't play scared like that.

 

[D-Dogg]

You're sacrificing your third down with a kneel. So...yeah, you're basically punting on third--a down where you have a chance to gain yardage and keep playing offense.

Teams don't play scared like that.

This.

And I'd argue the odds of fumbling are lower than picking up a first.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Oh, yes, it worked once, so it clearly has a high percentage of happening, gaining over 10 yards on a 3rd and long with a draw, all the time...with no risk of fumbling, of course People disagree...maybe stop fanning the flames?

You are correct I am fanning the flames and I apologize.

I just thought it was very ironic that in a similar situation, we got the first down one week later with the very player that screwed up the week before.

 

[Duckjake]

You are correct I am fanning the flames and I apologize.

I just thought it was very ironic that in a similar situation, we got the first down one week later with the very player that screwed up the week before.

It's the Cardinals. Would you expect anything different? Goofiest franchise in NFL history

 

[Chris_Sanders]

It's the Cardinals. Would you expect anything different? Goofiest franchise in NFL history

I would have expected him to fumble one carry later. Then it would be a real crapstorm.

 

[Stout]

You're sacrificing your third down with a kneel. So...yeah, you're basically punting on third--a down where you have a chance to gain yardage and keep playing offense.

Teams don't play scared like that.

No, you aren't...you're running valuable time off the clock, with absolutely zero risk. At that point, with that little time left, with such a long distance to gain the first, the odds are incredibly skewed towards playing it smart and taking a knee.

It's the Cardinals. Would you expect anything different? Goofiest franchise in NFL history

No kidding!

 

[D-Dogg]

No, you aren't...you're running valuable time off the clock, with absolutely zero risk. At that point, with that little time left, with such a long distance to gain the first, the odds are incredibly skewed towards playing it smart and taking a knee.

It runs LESS valuable time off the clock, by about 10 seconds. And it throws up the white flag.

The odds of a fumble are not very high, and I'd argue again the odds of picking up the first down are higher than a fumble.

And the odds of something bad happening on a punt (shank, short, returned big, blocked, etc) are MUCH higher than a fumble. So why would anyone be in a hell-fire hurry to punt the ball 8-10 seconds earlier than they would be forced to and not even try to pick up yardage and a first down?

VALUABLE time is the key. 10 seconds is roughly 2 plays to the sideline.

 

[Stout]

It runs LESS valuable time off the clock, by about 10 seconds. And it throws up the white flag.

The odds of a fumble are not very high, and I'd argue again the odds of picking up the first down are higher than a fumble.

And the odds of something bad happening on a punt (shank, short, returned big, blocked, etc) are MUCH higher than a fumble. So why would anyone be in a hell-fire hurry to punt the ball 8-10 seconds earlier than they would be forced to and not even try to pick up yardage and a first down?

VALUABLE time is the key. 10 seconds is roughly 2 plays to the sideline.

Yeah, 10 more seconds is at least, if not more, than double the ACTUAL time it would take off the clock. We're talking 3rd and long here, with the defense knowing what you're going to do. Can you break one for the first every now and again? Sure, we did it this week. Is it more likely you're going to get stoned at the line and burn maybe 5 or 6 seconds off the clock? MUCH MORE LIKELY. Of course, you can take the middle ground, a short gain, burning 8 or 9 total seconds off the clock. That's as opposed to burning about 3 seconds with a kneel-down play--oh, yeah, you know, QBs don't always just dive-to-the-ground kneel as quickly as possible--it does happen sometimes that they drop back a few steps and then kneel.

And if you're in 3rd and 13, the odds of you having to punt anyway are astronomically high, when you're running the ball, and the defense knows it. So you give up maybe 5 seconds...which might--MIGHT--be one play, while guaranteeing you aren't going to fumble. Sound logic to me.

 

[Shane]

Yeah, 10 more seconds is at least, if not more, than double the ACTUAL time it would take off the clock. We're talking 3rd and long here, with the defense knowing what you're going to do. Can you break one for the first every now and again? Sure, we did it this week. Is it more likely you're going to get stoned at the line and burn maybe 5 or 6 seconds off the clock? MUCH MORE LIKELY. Of course, you can take the middle ground, a short gain, burning 8 or 9 total seconds off the clock. That's as opposed to burning about 3 seconds with a kneel-down play--oh, yeah, you know, QBs don't always just dive-to-the-ground kneel as quickly as possible--it does happen sometimes that they drop back a few steps and then kneel.

And if you're in 3rd and 13, the odds of you having to punt anyway are astronomically high, when you're running the ball, and the defense knows it. So you give up maybe 5 seconds...which might--MIGHT--be one play, while guaranteeing you aren't going to fumble. Sound logic to me.

Key phrase in all of this!

 

[Stout]

Key phrase in all of this!

Yep, because I ALWAYS use sound logic in every post

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Yeah, 10 more seconds is at least, if not more, than double the ACTUAL time it would take off the clock. We're talking 3rd and long here, with the defense knowing what you're going to do. Can you break one for the first every now and again? Sure, we did it this week. Is it more likely you're going to get stoned at the line and burn maybe 5 or 6 seconds off the clock? MUCH MORE LIKELY. Of course, you can take the middle ground, a short gain, burning 8 or 9 total seconds off the clock. That's as opposed to burning about 3 seconds with a kneel-down play--oh, yeah, you know, QBs don't always just dive-to-the-ground kneel as quickly as possible--it does happen sometimes that they drop back a few steps and then kneel.

And if you're in 3rd and 13, the odds of you having to punt anyway are astronomically high, when you're running the ball, and the defense knows it. So you give up maybe 5 seconds...which might--MIGHT--be one play, while guaranteeing you aren't going to fumble. Sound logic to me.

Except the logic of that play call was that they were assuming the Pats would be looking for an inside run which would give them more room to make a play to the outside. Also if they get the ball outside the hash marks it is going to take more than 5 total seconds for the play itself and the spotting of the ball at the very least I would guess about 8 seconds and that is about 6-7 seconds more than with a kneel down. They weren't in good field position so it was likely that the Pats would have a short field, a kicker with a big leg, but no timeouts. Bottom line is that the Cards needed to give them as little time as possible because just 5 fewer second could have been the difference between being able to spike the ball in time or not.

 

[Stout]

Except the logic of that play call was that they were assuming the Pats would be looking for an inside run which would give them more room to make a play to the outside. Also if they get the ball outside the hash marks it is going to take more than 5 total seconds for the play itself and the spotting of the ball at the very least I would guess about 8 seconds and that is about 6-7 seconds more than with a kneel down. They weren't in good field position so it was likely that the Pats would have a short field, a kicker with a big leg, but no timeouts. Bottom line is that the Cards needed to give them as little time as possible because just 5 fewer second could have been the difference between being able to spike the ball in time or not.

Yeah, we're simply not going to agree. So hopefully no moderator will decide to bring it up all over again.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Yeah, we're simply not going to agree. So hopefully no moderator will decide to bring it up all over again.

Not this one!

Sorry if I was a dick to you or Mitch. Just very passionate about our coach.

 

[DoTheDew]

Moral of the story is there's no sure thing in football.

Which decision has better odds aside, you have to consider the other element:

What message does the coach send to the players?

Whiz sent the message that he trusts his team and the fact that he did it again after having fumbled in the exact same situation the previous week has to make Ryan Williams much more confident.

If you kneel there, you're telling you offense you don't trust them. It's not even that you expect the first down, it's the fact that you won't even try. If I was a player and my coach wouldn't even give me a chance to close the game out, I'd be pretty bummed to say the least.