Kyler Murray has been working out since Jan

[DVontel]

I’m on the kyler is good side of the equation, but you’re missing the argument if that’s your rebuttal. They’re speaking solely about kyler solely as a passer and not generally as a QB where his running helped elevate him to ROTY and pro bowl status.

Pretty much.


That Jalen Hurts projection is straight up laughable though.

 

[ajcardfan]

What I have said is that I would like to see Kyler working with a QB coach in the offseason. That's my opinion for ALL young QB's in the offseason. There is not enough time in OTA's alone to work on mechanics or spend hours in the film room studying tape to help diagnose defenses. If you want to improve in those areas you need to work on them in the offseason and I don't think you can successfully do it on your own, you need a coach.

Why don't you tweet to Murray that you want to see his offseason QB coach?

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Yep, he's a good QB, but middle of the pack passer.

If he could have a significant improvement on passes from 10-19 yards, he could take a big step forward.

Agreed. That would make him a monster.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

TBF Kyler wasn't special as a runner in his rookie season. A vast majority of him winning rookie of the year was due to his passing. Running obviously became a big part of his success in year 2, though he was still a better passer in year 2 than year 1.

And by “wasn’t special” you mean the third most rushing yards by a QB at 544 yards and 4 TDs and top 50 in the league (including all RBs) in rushing. Got it.

 

[BritCard]

such an average rookie year that they gave him the rookie of the year award and then he follows it up with a pro bowl in year 2.

context matters to everyone but you, pretty much all those QBs walked into scenarios with a better team. our 2018 offense was historically bad, you seriously need to go back 30+ years to find a worse offense. Why am I still in this thread? it makes me want to puke.

QB's nearly always win OROTY and he had absolutely no competition. Drop him in any previous year and he wouldn't even be in contention.

When Danny Dimes and Haskins are your competition you could have won OROTY.

 

[BritCard]

A vast majority of him winning rookie of the year was due to his passing. Running obviously became a big part of his success in year 2, though he was still a better passer in year 2 than year 1.

Nah man. All of the reason he won OROTY is he was the #1 pick and had no competition. Even when he won it many NFL commentators said it should have been Josh Jacobs.

He certainly didn't win it because of his passing. Gardner Minshew had a better passer rating as a rookie. More TD's in less games. More yards per game. More yards per attempt.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

QB's nearly always win OROTY and he had absolutely no competition. Drop him in any previous year and he wouldn't even be in contention.

When Danny Dimes and Haskins are your competition you could have won OROTY.

Actually Gardner minshew was legit competition for ROTY, regardless of what you thought of him as a prospect.

 

[BritCard]

Actually Gardner minshew was legit competition for ROTY, regardless of what you thought of him as a prospect.

I had no thoughts about him as a prospect. I thought he was hard done to not to be more in contention. But my recollection is that it was mainly a 2 horse race in the media anyway.

Either way, Kyler won it because there was very little high level competition.

 

[SoonerLou]

I think the fact the Cardinals had one of the worst offenses in NFL history just the year before played a huge part in Kyler getting ROY.

As great, maybe the best, ROY Herbert had just last year Rivers threw for 4600 yards on that squad. Chargers have/had maybe a top 5 wr/te core.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

And by “wasn’t special” you mean the third most rushing yards by a QB at 544 yards and 4 TDs and top 50 in the league (including all RBs) in rushing. Got it.

Considering what we saw that he is capable of last season, yeah it wasn't special at all in comparison. Never said he wasn't a good runner in 2019, only that it's not the primary reason he won OROY.

 

[Shane]

QB's nearly always win OROTY and he had absolutely no competition. Drop him in any previous year and he wouldn't even be in contention.

When Danny Dimes and Haskins are your competition you could have won OROTY.

If the RB in Oakland didn’t get hurt he wouldn’t have won it.

 

[BritCard]

Out of interest what do people here consider a good year? What's the barometer for success?

Passing only, no rushing, I'd have to see 4300 yards, 30 TD's, 12 or less INT's, and 7.7 YPA with a 100+ passer rating.

 

[SoonerLou]

Out of interest what do people here consider a good year? What's the barometer for success?

Passing only, no rushing, I'd have to see 4300 yards, 30 TD's, 12 or less INT's, and 7.7 YPA with a 100+ passer rating.

To @CardsSunsDbacks point Thats basically not far off what Kyler was on pace for the 1st 14 games of the season. (97 passer rating/4160 passing yards/30 Tds)

If Kyler played in the NFC East I think that would skew Kyler into probably being overrated. I think the NFC West is now making him underrated. Its a brutal division. Hopefully he can overcome it.

Getting back his normal quick release/throwing motion should help.

 

[kerouac9]

Out of interest what do people here consider a good year? What's the barometer for success?

Passing only, no rushing, I'd have to see 4300 yards, 30 TD's, 12 or less INT's, and 7.7 YPA with a 100+ passer rating.

Counting stats are for suckers. Efficiency is what matters; lots of guys put up a ton of yards in garbage time. That said, 9 QBs passed for over 4000 yards last year alone; that should be a threshold number as a passer. 10 QBs had 8.0 YPA or greater. That's probably a more important number (Kyler was 21st at 7.1 last year — more evidence that Kyler needs to get better at those "doubles" or "layup" routes between 8-15 yards downfield).

 

[Cheesebeef]

Considering what we saw that he is capable of last season, yeah it wasn't special at all in comparison. Never said he wasn't a good runner in 2019, only that it's not the primary reason he won OROY.

did the 2019 voters have a time machine to realize that the 544 yards wouldn’t look that special in retrospect to his 2020 numbers when making their decision?

trying to argue that his rushing yards weren’t a big part of him winning ROY is ridiculous, especially using the mental gymnastics above as a reason.

 

[SoonerLou]

Counting stats are for suckers. Efficiency is what matters; lots of guys put up a ton of yards in garbage time. That said, 9 QBs passed for over 4000 yards last year alone; that should be a threshold number as a passer. 10 QBs had 8.0 YPA or greater. That's probably a more important number (Kyler was 21st at 7.1 last year — more evidence that Kyler needs to get better at those "doubles" or "layup" routes between 8-15 yards downfield).

FWIW it was at 7.6 after the first 9 games

Last 7 were 6.4

I'm hoping it was just the shoulder/changed throwing motion. Or it might have been defensive adjustments. We'll find out this year.

 

[football karma]

a 100+ passer rating.

assuming >15 games played, if he gets that the Cards are in really good shape

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

did the 2019 voters have a time machine to realize that the 544 yards wouldn’t look that special in retrospect to his 2020 numbers when making their decision?

trying to argue that his rushing yards weren’t a big part of him winning ROY is ridiculous, especially using the mental gymnastics above as a reason.

I mean Josh Allen ran for 631 yards and 8 TDs in 12 games as a rookie just the year prior. Think it's safe to say that people were expecting more from Murray in that aspect. He was already a better passer than expected by most and that was definitely the number one reason he won OROY.

With the 2nd part of your post you are putting words in my mouth. Never said it wasn't a big part of the award just that it wasn't as a big a part as his passing.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Looks at Kylers rookie stats....Then looks at Justin Herberts rookie stats

Joe Burrow would have outperformed Kyler's rookie season had he stayed healthy. He was on track for 4300 yards and 21 TD's.

Gardner Minshew had a better statistical rookie year had he played all 16 games instead of starting 12.

Baker Mayfield had a better rookie year and he did it in 13 games.

Deshaun Watson had a better rookie year.

Dak Prescott had a better rookie year.

Hell, even Jalen Hurts 4 games played in a garbage Philly team would have outstripped Kyler had he played a full season at the same rate. 4244 yards and 24 TD's.

He had a very average rookie year. On par with someone like Carson Wentz but below many guys we consider to be top QB's in the league. And his second year was only slightly better.


Kyler is supremely talented which is why it's frustrating that he isn't making the most of it. I expected at least Deshaun Watson things from him thus far, but instead got less than Carson Wentz (who had 33 passing TDs in year 2 and a 101.9 passer rating).

Before the "don't disrespect my QB" pile on's begin. I want Kyler to succeed. I like him as a person and a player. But we are lying to ourselves if we say he has lived up to his potential so far. For the #1 overall pick he has been distinctly average.

Maybe it's Kliff? It wouldn't surprise me. But either way let's not fool ourselves that as a passer he's been great.

Murray was a one year college starter. The bust rate on 1st year starters is very high. He has a lot of growth still to do. Herbert should be more advanced as a passer because of the amount of games played.

Herbert - 4 year starter
Burrow - 2 year starter
Mayfield - 3 year starter
Watson - 2 year starter
Prescott - 4 year starter

Now to your "projections if they played a whole season" Lets examine these numbers

QB1 65.3% completion. 3.2% TD INT: 1.2% Sack 7.3% QBR 56.2
QB2 64.4% completion. 3.7% TD INT 2.2% Sack 8.1% QBR 57.7
QB3 52.0% completion 4.1% TD INT 2.7% Sack 8.1% QBR 41.0

Which do you think Murray is and what are the other two "That would have had better seasons if they played all year?"

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Considering what we saw that he is capable of last season, yeah it wasn't special at all in comparison. Never said he wasn't a good runner in 2019, only that it's not the primary reason he won OROY.

Maybe not “primary” but absent it he likely isn’t the ROTY.

 

[SECTION 11]

Nah man. All of the reason he won OROTY is he was the #1 pick and had no competition. Even when he won it many NFL commentators said it should have been Josh Jacobs.

So, lemme get this straight. He had no competition, but many commentators said it should have gone to Jacobs? I just want to be sure I understand.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So, lemme get this straight. He had no competition, but many commentators said it should have gone to Jacobs? I just want to be sure I understand.

Now 11, it’s not nice to point out blatant hypocrisy in someone’s single post.

 

[SECTION 11]

Only 10 QBs have won OROY since it began in 1967.

 

[SECTION 11]

PFF ranked the 2019 Cardinal roster as the worst in the league, and coming off of one of the worst offenses in the modern era, but we should be concerned with... something? I guess?

 

[BritCard]

Counting stats are for suckers. Efficiency is what matters; lots of guys put up a ton of yards in garbage time. That said, 9 QBs passed for over 4000 yards last year alone; that should be a threshold number as a passer. 10 QBs had 8.0 YPA or greater. That's probably a more important number (Kyler was 21st at 7.1 last year — more evidence that Kyler needs to get better at those "doubles" or "layup" routes between 8-15 yards downfield).

I'm trying to make it simple. Not require guys to have an degree in analytics.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Only 10 QBs have won OROY since it began in 1967.

And only one of those 10 QB's ever won a SB...