Lack of a Running Game: Are We Suffering From the Side Effects of Success?

[JeffGollin]

I've been struggling with the following conundrum.

The Cardinal offense, of late, isn't running the ball very well and suffers because of this.

Our average yards per attempt is pathetic. Our number of attempts per game is often single-digit.

The two factors are not mutually exclusive (i.e. It's hard to establish a running rhythm if you don't run the ball enough. And - especially when your passing attack is so effective - given the lack of success per carry - the inclination will be to desert the run early.

In more than half our games, we've gotten away with this because our passing attack has saved us. But if we're ever going to become really good, we'll need to be able to run the ball if for no other reason than to provide an "answer" when opposing defenses take away the pass and dare us to run the ball.

But how do you do that? If we were to go back to a straight "I" power running base offense, we'd cripple KW's ability to spread our 4 wideouts and pick apart the defensive secondary. Yet at some point, we're gonna have to to do that.

Mike Martz ran into this same problem when he coached the Rams (although his stubborness no doubt had a lot to do with it - and this is hardly the problem here).

But I do think that sometimes when you can do certain things really really good, it may impede you from doing other more important things well enough.

Should we just be happy that we have KW, Fitz, Q & Co. and remain "pass happy?" Or should we bite the bullet and force-feed a more consistent and productive running game? Discuss.

 

[Stout]

First, I'll say that this needs to start happening after the season, because right now we is who we is. That being said, yes, I think we need to force-feed ourselves a running game. Great passing attacks alone do not and have never won championships. Even the greatest show on turf had an explosive running game to complement the passing game. The run-and-shoot never won titles. In order to achieve ultimate success, we must be able to run. In order to run, I think we must utilize more traditional sets more often. We can still pass out of those sets with great effectiveness, which leads me into my next point.

I think we need to go with Matt Leinart next season. I know it isn't popular with a lot of people, and it could certainly backfire, but here's my reasoning. As I laid out above, we need to get that running game back, and I believe we should go back to using more traditional I-type sets more often. I think Leinart is better suited to running such an offense. No, I don't think Kurt is hideous at it, nor do I think he's an awful QB, but I think Leinart would be better suited to it and that Warner is too specific a gunslinger. Favre was always a gunslinger, but not to the detriment of the run game. Of course, I don't think the lack of a run game is nearly all Kurt's fault, but I do believe he plays a factor in that.

To follow up on that point, Leinart would clearly cost less. With Leinart, we'd have to look for a 2nd/3rd string QB, which would be extremely cost effective. With Warner, we'd still be paying Leinart and we'd be shelling out 5-10 more million next season. I'd rather take the money we'd give Warner and throw it at Suggs. That way we could still resign some of our out-of-contract players (only some--Green should be gone), and still go after some 2nd-tier and depth-type free agents. That way we wouldn't have to draft purely for need, which I think really benefited us in this last draft.

Okay, there ya go. Rip into it, Warner fans.

 

[imaCafan]

As freebyrd said in another thread, Edge is "rested" so to speak. Over the next two games, I say give Edge 6-8 carries at NE and a dozen or so against the Hawks, leaving him fresh for the play-offs, but not "rusty". Then, in the play-offs, if the game situation dictates we run, we give Edge the bulk of the running plays like we did in the first half of the season. Go back to what was working best.....

 

[cardpa]

I totally agree with Stout. This team really needs to have Leinart at QB next year. The offense would have better balance and you will never get that with Warner at QB. It's not a knock on Warner. The shortcomings with Warner at QB is his need to throw so much to find a rhythm. This has a negative effect of the run game.

We may even find that with Leinart at QB the offense may have less turnovers because the offense will have better balance.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Mr. Gollin, you have asked a question that goes AAAALLLLLL the way back to preseason.

In concern to the running game it comes to this. If you want to play smash mouth football then you need a smash mouth roster.

Coach Whiz, is in his second year, but he is in a position where he is going to do anything to win. I think before Whiz can put his mark on this club roster-wise he decided he has to change the attitude of the whole organization. So, winning games was the first thing he had to do in Arizona. By doing so he sacrificed getting his type of players into Arizona.

Thus our roster as of right now is in no shape to run the ball.

Coach Whiz, and Coach Grimm are old school. They drink from the cup of Bill Cowher and Joe Gibbs. That means SMASH MOUTH FOOTBALL. No zone blocking, no misdirection. Line up, put a hat on a hat and have one of your two running backs hit the hole and hit the hole HARD! The Cardinals are missing almost every asset of this formula.

Let's take a look.

Offensive Line & Tight Ends/Fullback:

We might have one good "Whiz/Grimm" type player on our current starting offensive line. Levi Brown has the tools to be a good run blocking tackle. He has the size, and with a 6'5" frame could beef up past 332 lbs. But there is a lot to be desired from Levi Brown who is still an enigma at this point in his career.

As for the rest? Sure they can pass block but we are talking about running the ball.

-Deuce Lutui: I love that he is a Cardinals fan, but he is not a NFL starting calibur guard. At 6'4" and 332 lbs he should be a run blocking machine, and was billed as that coming out of college. Whispers of doubt on work ethic, and game smarts has crippled Duece's progress. I finger him as the number one problem we have on the line.

-Mike Gandy: I really like Mr. Gandy. He is one the best tackles I have seen since I started watching the Cardinals. Love the attitude, the professionalism, and his lunch pail work ethic. But at 6'4" and 312 lbs he is a light wieght of a tackle when you are talking about a power running game. I have nothing against Mike Gandy but he does not fit the mold of what you are looking for in a power running game.

-Reggie Wells: Again, just like Gandy you are talking about a good offensive linemen but not what you are looking for in a power running team. Wells is a VERY small guard for the NFL. His skill are great, but since he has been in Arizona his downfall is that he can be overpowered.

-Lyle Sendlien: It is hard to bash a guy that was an undrafted free agent pick up. He was slated as a backup for life. He comes in, plays solid, rids us of the need to pay Al Johson 7mil to play center. But he is NOT not a NFL starting calibur center. He has the size, but his inexperience and skill set is not up to par.

-Tight Ends & Fullback: Terrell Smith is a great blocker. He is not an issue when it comes to the run game. Pope, Patrick, Tuman, and Spach are a disgrace. Patrick might be good but he seems to be injury prone. Pope has vanished, he cannot block, and is a penalty machine. Tuman is a huge dissapointment at the position, and Spach is a wet band aid. This is a HUGE problem on this team. Smith is getting old and may not be back next year, and there is not a TE to be found on the roster. I will not even address this unit in my conclusion cause there is nothing here. We are starting from scratch.

-Conclusion: I have said this for a couple of weeks now, and I heard Coach Whiz & Kurt Warner say the same thing last week. The Arizona Cardinals have taken a step in the last two seasons. They have stepped up from being a doormat, to being competitive. They had to upgrade from Anthony Clement to Mike Gandy, from Chris Dishman to Reggie Wells, from Alex Steponovich to Lyle Sendlien. If the Cardinals want to take another step toward being a contender the process has to start over again, and they must upgrade the previous upgrades.

This can't be done in one season. The Cardinals are not going to be able to re-vamp 4 out of 5 guys on the offensive line. You can argue that the Cardinals may have only needed to change 3 out 5 spots if they were able to keep Kendrick Vincent around, who we lost to free agency last year. They were blurbs that the Cardinals we upset that they lost the chance to re-sign Vincent last offseason, and you can see why because he is having a monster year for the Panthers starting at there guard position. If Vincent was still here then I would assume he would be starting over Lutui right now.

But there is hope. The Cardinals may still have to only upgrade 3 out 5 positions because there is hope with the "work in progress" Brandon Keith. When you hear stuff about a 6'4" 342 lbs offensive linemen that moves "like a first round pic" you cannot hope but be excited at the prospect of getting that out on the field. But potential and production are two different things.


Running Back:

Where to begin? First things first, is that Edge, and any running back like Edge are not going to work in Whiz's system. You need two backs, that is so important I will say it again......YOU NEED TWO BACKS!!!!!!

When Cowher won a Superbowl he had two backs: Parker = Speed, Bettis = Power

When Joe Gibbs won Superbowl he had two backs: Washington = Speed, Riggins = Power

The speed back is for big play potential, but not every down play. Why ? Cause they can't take it. Sorry, but Mike Tomlin in Pittsburg doesn't get it. He failed to realize you can't run Willie Parker 20+ times a game and expect him to survive a full season.

Enter the power back. Up by 14 points ? Mid-way through the 3rd quarter ? James Farrior of the Pittsburg Steelers has an excellent sound bite......"Here comes the bus!". Damn right! The power back comes in and starts to slam away 4 yards while pummeling a tired defense. Grinding away yards and time.

Right now the Cardinals have.......none of the above.

-Tim Hightower: Sorry, is not going to cut it as a pure power back, or pure speed back. At best he will be a depth guy.

-Arrington: JJ is playing very well for us, has a huge consistancy question mark. I think he is a decent speed back, but not exactly what you are looking for.

-Conclusion:
The Cardinals backfield needs a gigantic upgrade. More speed, and more power. Both can be acquired without breaking the bank. A guy like Leon Washington on the NY Jets is almost too perfect for the speed role. He can catch, he can juke, and he has the 5th gear where when he is gone....he is gone.
As for a power back ? I am at a loss. The best in the league right now is McClain who is playing for Baltimore, but there is always some cast away that can be found to "fit the system". I will leave that up to Whiz to find.

EDIT: I thought L.Washington was available this upcoming offseason but he is not. But Darren Sproles is. He would be just as good in the speed position. As for a power back, and this would never happen, but Brandon Jacobs is a free agent as well....at least as of right now.

So, how is all of this going to happen. How does Whiz pull this transformation off with two high priced QB's and two high priced WR's ? How does Whiz change over his offensive line and running back core without costing himself wins ? I dunno.

This is a new age of football. Teams are trying to win it all right now. If you don't let your coach have 3 years to "build a team" well then you have to win with what you got, but that will always effect your future. I think this is why you see these teams like the Bengals, and Saints have one good year and then slide back down the rankings. Because they didn't build a team. They glued won together, and hoped for the best.

If Whiz wants to win now then he must deal with what he has, if he want to run the ball then he has to start building and may have to sacrifice some wins.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Follow up:

I tried to be as objective and realistic as possible in the last post. Now I will go back to my shotgun theories.

If I had control of that offensive line I would:

#1. Reggie Wells becomes a center. He is atheletic enough, and savy enough to play center. He has been the one calling plays when Sendlien is out. He would be fast enough to get out on LB's

#2 Wayne Gandy takes Wells's spot at guard. He has played there before and has shown to be solid enough to take over for Wells. Plus it gives us a little more "umph" at the position.

#3 Bench Lutui.

#4 Put Brandon Keith at tackle and keep Brandon Keith at tackle. 6'4" and 342 lbs. with good feet. Let's see what we have.

#5 Sign a guard that is known for power run blocking.

#6 Sign Leon Washington this offseason.

OL:
RT: Levi Brown
RG: FA
C: Reggie Wells
LG: Wayne Gandy
LT: Brandon Keith

 

[82CardsGrad]

I've been struggling with the following conundrum.

The Cardinal offense, of late, isn't running the ball very well and suffers because of this.

"Of Late"????

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Offensive Line & Tight Ends/Fullback:

We might have one good "Whiz/Grimm" type player on our current starting offensive line. Levi Brown has the tools to be a good run blocking tackle. He has the size, and with a 6'5" frame could beef up past 332 lbs. But there is a lot to be desired from Levi Brown who is still an enigma at this point in his career.

As for the rest? Sure they can pass block but we are talking about running the ball.

.

wow rugby, glad you put in the time. but i'm going to disagree with a few comments (even though i agree with most of what you said).

levi brown is not an enigma. he sucks. let's face facts. he sucks. he cannot pass block worth a lick and if you watch him, like i've watched him this season, he is not a run blocker either. he does not fire out. he does not drive block. he catches. and he doesn't even catch effectively. if you catch and angle a player outta the play that's one thing, if you catch and do nothing (as he routinely does) you just suck. he's still getting away with some mediocre-to-good play from the beginning of his rookie season to get some of you to even say he's an enigma . . . but he surrendered the title of enigma when he surrender his testicles.

next, you say "sure they can pass block" . . . and i take exception to that comment as well. they are mediocre pass blockers as a unit. kurt takes a tremendous amount of punishment every game. more so than a passing team of our ability should warrant. and it's been getting worse. kurt is almost always under duress. his best passes usually result of him on his backside just as he releases.

this o line is bad. it's a mediocre pass blocking unit and the worst run blocking unit in the league. gandy should be a top flight backup. levi sucks. duece sucks. wells should be a top flight backup. and lyle should be an emergency starter.

 

[Stout]

wow rugby, glad you put in the time. but i'm going to disagree with a few comments (even though i agree with most of what you said).

levi brown is not an enigma. he sucks. let's face facts. he sucks. he cannot pass block worth a lick and if you watch him, like i've watched him this season, he is not a run blocker either. he does not fire out. he does not drive block. he catches. and he doesn't even catch effectively. if you catch and angle a player outta the play that's one thing, if you catch and do nothing (as he routinely does) you just suck. he's still getting away with some mediocre-to-good play from the beginning of his rookie season to get some of you to even say he's an enigma . . . but he surrendered the title of enigma when he surrender his testicles.

next, you say "sure they can pass block" . . . and i take exception to that comment as well. they are mediocre pass blockers as a unit. kurt takes a tremendous amount of punishment every game. more so than a passing team of our ability should warrant. and it's been getting worse. kurt is almost always under duress. his best passes usually result of him on his backside just as he releases.

this o line is bad. it's a mediocre pass blocking unit and the worst run blocking unit in the league. gandy should be a top flight backup. levi sucks. duece sucks. wells should be a top flight backup. and lyle should be an emergency starter.

Sadly, agreed. I'm a Penn State homer. I cried when we blew the game against Iowa. Even so, unless Levi has the light go on over the offseason, he will be a lost cause.

 

[Cheesebeef]

wow rugby, glad you put in the time. but i'm going to disagree with a few comments (even though i agree with most of what you said).

levi brown is not an enigma. he sucks. let's face facts. he sucks. he cannot pass block worth a lick and if you watch him, like i've watched him this season, he is not a run blocker either. he does not fire out. he does not drive block. he catches. and he doesn't even catch effectively. if you catch and angle a player outta the play that's one thing, if you catch and do nothing (as he routinely does) you just suck. he's still getting away with some mediocre-to-good play from the beginning of his rookie season to get some of you to even say he's an enigma . . . but he surrendered the title of enigma when he surrender his testicles.

lol. tell us what you really think Ouchie!

 

[Buckybird]

First, I'll say that this needs to start happening after the season, because right now we is who we is. That being said, yes, I think we need to force-feed ourselves a running game. Great passing attacks alone do not and have never won championships. Even the greatest show on turf had an explosive running game to complement the passing game. The run-and-shoot never won titles. In order to achieve ultimate success, we must be able to run. In order to run, I think we must utilize more traditional sets more often. We can still pass out of those sets with great effectiveness, which leads me into my next point.

I think we need to go with Matt Leinart next season. I know it isn't popular with a lot of people, and it could certainly backfire, but here's my reasoning. As I laid out above, we need to get that running game back, and I believe we should go back to using more traditional I-type sets more often. I think Leinart is better suited to running such an offense. No, I don't think Kurt is hideous at it, nor do I think he's an awful QB, but I think Leinart would be better suited to it and that Warner is too specific a gunslinger. Favre was always a gunslinger, but not to the detriment of the run game. Of course, I don't think the lack of a run game is nearly all Kurt's fault, but I do believe he plays a factor in that.

To follow up on that point, Leinart would clearly cost less. With Leinart, we'd have to look for a 2nd/3rd string QB, which would be extremely cost effective. With Warner, we'd still be paying Leinart and we'd be shelling out 5-10 more million next season. I'd rather take the money we'd give Warner and throw it at Suggs. That way we could still resign some of our out-of-contract players (only some--Green should be gone), and still go after some 2nd-tier and depth-type free agents. That way we wouldn't have to draft purely for need, which I think really benefited us in this last draft.

Okay, there ya go. Rip into it, Warner fans.

Stout, I agree that we need to let Warner go and play Leinart if we are to change offensive philosophy. Warner likes to throw the rock, he is what he is. But you can write it down that ownership and the GM will resign the guy based on what this team has accomplished this season despite other needs to improve this team. Write it down!!! This team has put itself in a no win situation, they will be drilled by media if they don't resign him and will not get better if they do. To me a 39 year old player doesn't deserve a big pay day regardless of how well he plays.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

lol. tell us what you really think Ouchie!

It is good to see him on the board.

I have to agree with Ouchie. I am a kool aid guy at heart but Ouchie makes a point. We gotta get some O-linemen in here stat.

An ideal back field would be Darren Sproles, and Brandon Jacobs. There, at least as of right now, slated to be free agents.

But of course backs mean nothing without a good OL

 

[WildBB]

Stout, I agree that we need to let Warner go and play Leinart if we are to change offensive philosophy. Warner likes to throw the rock, he is what he is. But you can write it down that ownership and the GM will resign the guy based on what this team has accomplished this season despite other needs to improve this team. Write it down!!! This team has put itself in a no win situation, they will be drilled by media if they don't resign him and will not get better if they do. To me a 39 year old player doesn't deserve a big pay day regardless of how well he plays.

It's like a catch 22 situation. The team may need to move Lienart IF/WHEN it resigns Warner. Which is inevitable at this point. There could be worse senarios - but if/when the team lays an egg in the first round, what then?!

 

[WildBB]

Sadly, agreed. I'm a Penn State homer. I cried when we blew the game against Iowa. Even so, unless Levi has the light go on over the offseason, he will be a lost cause.

Wow, he's been somewhat of a dissapointment but lost cause?! That's a little premature. Branch is close to lost cause. And if so that draft of Brown, Branch, The OLB from FSU (forgot his name allready), and (traded away) will go down as a draft that will catch up to this team when players like Peterson and Willis got past us.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Wow, he's been somewhat of a dissapointment but lost cause?! That's a little premature. Branch is close to lost cause. And if so that draft of Brown, Branch, The OLB from FSU (forgot his name allready), and (traded away) will go down as a draft that will catch up to this team when players like Peterson and Willis got past us.

ugh, don't remind me what an utter waste that total draft was. and on top of it passing on the obvious AP. oy . . . i suddenly feel even worse about the shellacking we're about to take tomorrow.

 

[Duckjake]

Wow, he's been somewhat of a dissapointment but lost cause?! That's a little premature. Branch is close to lost cause. And if so that draft of Brown, Branch, The OLB from FSU (forgot his name allready), and (traded away) will go down as a draft that will catch up to this team when players like Peterson and Willis got past us.

You have to really wonder about LBrown's future in the NFL if after almost two full seasons working with Grimm Levi is playing worse.

Either that or as some have hinted Grimm is way overrated

 

[slanidrac16]

I've been struggling with the following conundrum.

The Cardinal offense, of late, isn't running the ball very well and suffers because of this.

Our average yards per attempt is pathetic. Our number of attempts per game is often single-digit.

The two factors are not mutually exclusive (i.e. It's hard to establish a running rhythm if you don't run the ball enough. And - especially when your passing attack is so effective - given the lack of success per carry - the inclination will be to desert the run early.

In more than half our games, we've gotten away with this because our passing attack has saved us. But if we're ever going to become really good, we'll need to be able to run the ball if for no other reason than to provide an "answer" when opposing defenses take away the pass and dare us to run the ball.

But how do you do that? If we were to go back to a straight "I" power running base offense, we'd cripple KW's ability to spread our 4 wideouts and pick apart the defensive secondary. Yet at some point, we're gonna have to to do that.

Mike Martz ran into this same problem when he coached the Rams (although his stubborness no doubt had a lot to do with it - and this is hardly the problem here).

But I do think that sometimes when you can do certain things really really good, it may impede you from doing other more important things well enough.

Should we just be happy that we have KW, Fitz, Q & Co. and remain "pass happy?" Or should we bite the bullet and force-feed a more consistent and productive running game? Discuss.

This has been our dilema for most of the year. I know I've sat and watched games and thought," Why in the hell do we even try to run the ball? Just throw it every down!" It's easy to fall into that trap because of our success with the pass.

That being said, we have gotten so far away from our running game that opposing teams are game planning to take that away with no regard to our running game.
We are 7-1 when we have ran the ball 19 times or more. Doesn't matter what our yards per attempt was. I think our biggest problem is we come out in formations that scream, "THIS IS A PASS OR DELAYED HANDOFF!". We need to get back to more fundamental sets and MAKE teams respect the possibility of the run which would open up the secondary a bit more for our passing game.

The other problem is we, for the most part, cannot depend on our defense to consistantly get off the field. That in turn gives us a mindset that if we play a little closer to the vest we will inevitably fall behind.
I also think our o-line is always in the pass happy mindset and has lost the attitude it takes to run the ball.

This Patriots game is the perfect game to send a message to our o-line. Let them know, hell or high water, we are going to run the ball Sunday so get your mind right.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Found some good information looking over the 2009 free agents:

TE:
LJ Smith
Bo Scaife
Jim Kliensasser
Bubba Franks
David Wilcox

T:
Jordan Gross
Marvel Smith
Tra Thomas

G:
Chris Naele
Mike Goff

C:
Matt Birk
Jason Brown - Bal.
Jeff Saturday

 

[Stout]

Found some good information looking over the 2009 free agents:

TE:
LJ Smith
Bo Scaife
Jim Kliensasser
Bubba Franks
David Wilcox

T:
Jordan Gross
Marvel Smith
Tra Thomas

G:
Chris Naele
Mike Goff

C:
Matt Birk
Jason Brown - Bal.
Jeff Saturday

Man, give me Suggs as the big-money guy, and Saturday and Scaife as 2nd-tier FAs, and draft defense and OL, with maybe a RB too.

 

[JeffGollin]

Let Me Spin Out a "Conspiracy Theory"...

Let's say you're Coach Wiz or Rod G, you've got the schedule and you're sizing up the 2008 season.

Your immediate goals (of the type mandatory for your survival) have to be: (1) improve over last year's 8 & 8 record and (2) make the playoffs.

You see relatively easy pickings among 6 inter-division games plus probably Miami and Buffalo. Not so easy pickings against the four teams in the NFC East or New England and 50-50 against Carolina, Minnesota and the Jets.

The smart thing to do (at least from a survival standpoint) is to lock up those 8 winnable games and then hope to steal one more from either Carolina, Minnesota or the Jets.

(Note - nothing is rock solid: We beat Team Felon and got creamed by the Jets - but we still came out 8 or 9 and 7 or 8).)

You know your passing attack matches up well against all the beatable teams you play, so why take chances? Why not pick up an "easy 8" by throwing the ball a lot. Why risk losing any of these gimmes by insisting on running the ball (even though in the long range, you'll need a robust running attack to win late in the year or in the playoffs).

So what you do is configure your O-line to pass block better than it run blocks (although lately....well...) and install the better pass-catcher (Hightower) instead of Edge at tailback.

This strategy didn't figure to get us to 10 & 6 or even 11 & 5, but it could be expected to guarantee we'd make the playoffs (which we did).

So - for discussion - Whaddya think? Is this what Wiz and Rod may have been thinking coming into this season?

 

[SuperSpck]

Liked the post Rugby.

I think Brown's a little too slow to be an effective tackle at the pro level.

I do think he can be an exceptional guard.

And as odd as it may sound, he may have the wheels to be the pulling guard the Cardinals needs. So that gives him the "Wells" spot on the line next year.

LT:
LG: Brown
C:
RG:
RT:

Gandy is light for a LT, but he's got the speed so he stays until a replacement is groomed.

LT: Gandy
LG: Brown
C:
RG:
RT:

Wells and Gandy have a lot in common. Above average footwork, reasonable play recognition and decent technique (although both can be bull rushed), so based on that principle he gets moved to man the other tackle spot outside.

LT: Gandy
LG: Brown
C:
RG:
RT: Wells

Now I've been riding the Brandon Keith bandwagon since before I had a legitimate reason to, but after watching him closely in preseason I believe he's got the goods to play either RT or RG in the NFL as a starter. He's super-quick, strong, and sees the field very well (check out how he handled stunts and delayed secondary blitzes vs the Saints if you don't trust me). Because in my little scenario Wells is already manning RT, this moves our good man Keith to RG.

LT: Gandy
LG:Brown
C:
RG: Keith
RT: Wells

As for center? I've got nothing, except to say bring in a FA or draft a kid, because I don't think there's a center on this team who can go for the long haul. Sendlien's a kid who's got a lot of positive praise as a younger player, but has either hit a wall later in life (heh, he's probably not even 25 yet) or can't be trusted as anything other than a very good depth guy.

 

[LVG]

Let's say you're Coach Wiz or Rod G, you've got the schedule and you're sizing up the 2008 season.

Your immediate goals (of the type mandatory for your survival) have to be: (1) improve over last year's 8 & 8 record and (2) make the playoffs.

So - for discussion - Whaddya think? Is this what Wiz and Rod may have been thinking coming into this season?

JG - I was wondering about this myself. The fact is that in the NFL, you're expected to win now, regardless if you're a newly mented HC or one who'se been to the dance several times with another team.

Winning season / playoff = keeping your job for another year or two.

I could see Whis sitting down after the season is over in the Front Office meetings saying "See, I can get you there. We can get to the playoffs, get home games, etc., and now that I've proven that I can, I need full control of this team, including 1) CP, 2) Warner is out, 3) Boldin is nice, but we need to revamp the team, and I need one star WR, not two, and need the money elsewhere, etc..."

I know that the last couple of games have left sour tastes in our mouths, but, we're heading to the playoffs, and it would be interesting to see if any "restrictions" placed on Whis at the time of his hire would come off now that we're heading there, along with some additional time (a season or two) to overhaul the team.

The fact is, when you look at the posts above, if Whis is dedicated to completely overhauling the team, we have major work to do. If we want to go to a run first, pass second team, almost (you could argue the entire) OL is going to change. That's two seasons, three if you want them to gel together. We need two solid backs, as stated by others above.

Defense - we need to get the personnel in place to go to a 3-4. We need improvement at CB.

Oh, don't forget a new DC.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

LT: Gandy
LG:Brown
C:
RG: Keith
RT: Wells

In a make do with what you have secnario, that looks pretty good. As for establishing a power running game? That is not good. Wells and Gandy are way too small to be tackles in a power running game.

I do like the idea of putting Keith and Brown at the guard positions. I still say put Wells at center.

But then the Cardinals are looking for tackles again and that is hard to find in today's NFL.

 

[john h]

I've been struggling with the following conundrum.

The Cardinal offense, of late, isn't running the ball very well and suffers because of this.

Our average yards per attempt is pathetic. Our number of attempts per game is often single-digit.

The two factors are not mutually exclusive (i.e. It's hard to establish a running rhythm if you don't run the ball enough. And - especially when your passing attack is so effective - given the lack of success per carry - the inclination will be to desert the run early.

In more than half our games, we've gotten away with this because our passing attack has saved us. But if we're ever going to become really good, we'll need to be able to run the ball if for no other reason than to provide an "answer" when opposing defenses take away the pass and dare us to run the ball.

But how do you do that? If we were to go back to a straight "I" power running base offense, we'd cripple KW's ability to spread our 4 wideouts and pick apart the defensive secondary. Yet at some point, we're gonna have to to do that.

Mike Martz ran into this same problem when he coached the Rams (although his stubborness no doubt had a lot to do with it - and this is hardly the problem here).

But I do think that sometimes when you can do certain things really really good, it may impede you from doing other more important things well enough.

Should we just be happy that we have KW, Fitz, Q & Co. and remain "pass happy?" Or should we bite the bullet and force-feed a more consistent and productive running game? Discuss.

Jeff my take is much more simple. We do not have the RB's or OL to mount a decent running game. Perhaps the coaching is part of this with the line but with a RB you either have the moves, speed, or heart or not. This is why rookie RB's can make an immediate impact while a OL needs time to learn.

 

[conraddobler]

What's so heartbreaking is how long we've been working on this same problem.

We haven't had a great o line since the 1970's, it seems to be a glaring curse for this team.

Step one is to hire someone who knows what they heck they are doing in evaluating O line talent.

Seems we whiffed again on that front.