Laker fans begin to worry ; Kobe Quote

[newfan101]

Originally posted by frdbtr
If he wasn't a selfish person, he would have never cheated on his wife. That is the ultimate in selfishness.

What does that have to do with basketball? Jordan and Magic cheated on their wives. Would you rather we build the team around AC Green?

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by newfan101
What does that have to do with basketball? Jordan and Magic cheated on their wives. Would you rather we build the team around AC Green?

I never said that he didn't have basketball skills. I said that he is selfish and I didn't want a selfish player on the suns. Did Jordan ever get arrested for Rape? Kobe is a great player but he is selfish. Prove me wrong on this. We may end up with him. If he ends up a Sun I will chear for him and hope that I am wrong about his selfishness and that he won't destroy the team with it.

 

[SweetD]

Originally posted by frdbtr
I never said that he didn't have basketball skills. I said that he is selfish and I didn't want a selfish player on the suns. Did Jordan ever get arrested for Rape? Kobe is a great player but he is selfish. Prove me wrong on this. We may end up with him. If he ends up a Sun I will chear for him and hope that I am wrong about his selfishness and that he won't destroy the team with it.

Ya but Jordan has his own issues with women as well.

 

[slinslin]

Why is Kobe selfish? If he is selfish Marbury is very selfish which we know he isn't.

Kobe doesn't dominate the ball like Marbury and he averaged 6apg as a shooting guard.
30/7/6/2/1 as a 24yr old and I am not sure he has reached his peak yet.

I won't look at this season's numbers because they obviously don't tell the full story about Bryant as a basketball player.

With all the issues there might be. Kobe Bryant would sell out AWA for years to come.

 

[newfan101]

Originally posted by frdbtr
I never said that he didn't have basketball skills. I said that he is selfish and I didn't want a selfish player on the suns. Did Jordan ever get arrested for Rape? Kobe is a great player but he is selfish. Prove me wrong on this. We may end up with him. If he ends up a Sun I will chear for him and hope that I am wrong about his selfishness and that he won't destroy the team with it.

Of course Jordan didn't get arrested for rape, but that wasn't your basis for selfishness. You said Kobe was selfish because he cheated on his wife, and I'm saying so did Jordan and Magic, so technically, according to you, they were the "ultimate in selfish." They also won 11 championships between them. I won't prove you wrong on his selfishness, because he is selfish. And I believe every superstar has that element in his game.

This whole arguement is moot anyway if Kobe is found guilty of rape. Whether we think he's great, selfish, or whatever, it wont matter if he's in jail. However, if he's found innocent, I hope we go after him with everything we have.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by SweetD
Ya but Jordan has his own issues with women as well.

However Jordon was smart enough not to let it hurt his basketball game. What does this also say about Kobe? Look at kobe's track record. He has been working every year, since Phil Jackson started coaching the Lakers, to destroy the chemestry that he needs to develop with Shaq. They have put it together in the playoffs a couple of times but Last year were unable to do it. Then in the summer he is smart enough to get himself arrested for rape (oh and by the way there is a lot of evidence suggesting that he did it). Then to top it off he blows up in the media telling everyone how unselfish he is because he "sacrifices his game for Shaq". Now he wants out of LA so he can prove how great a player he is without Shaq. A true unselfish player would be content to be a great player alongside another great player and just keep winning championships. Did Magic lose out on the hall of fame because he played next to Kareem? Sorry guys, I just feel that Kobe is Selfish and he is not right for the Suns. He is a great player but there is a lot of evidence suggesting that he is a "me first" player. How do you think this will mesh with players like Amare who, I believe, will turn into a franchise player someday?

 

[slinslin]

Jordan was also never accused of rape and had to go through a season while being charged for rape.

I am surprised how well Kobe is managing everything this season.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I haven't read everything, but I agree with Chap and others who say you just don't turn down Kobe Bryant.

Also, we can only offer a 6 year deal, unless it is sign and trade.

 

[Joe Mama]

Supposedly the biggest reason Kobe Bryant might want to leave the Lakers is that he wants to lead a team to a championship. He wants to show he can't do it without Shaquille O'Neal. That's why I think going to the San Antonio Spurs is not really an option. People would say the same thing about him there in San Antonio. They would accuse him of writing the coattails of Tim Duncan. And they would probably have more of an argument in San Antonio because the Spurs have won a couple of championships without him already.

As of right now I think the Phoenix Suns and the LA Clippers are the only real options for Kobe Bryant. Of course as we all saw this week that could change with one big move from many teams.

It was my understanding that Kobe Bryant loves Los Angeles. It doesn't seem like he wants to leave the city. It just seems like he might want to leave the Lakers. The Suns do have some nice players to go along with Kobe Bryant. So do the LA Clippers. Also, by staying in Los Angeles he would know that he has a huge fan base that loves him there.

Joe Mama

 

[slinslin]

I don't think Kobe is the kind of person who would be worried about fan base going to another team.

He got booed in every arena this season including staples.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I think that LA and Phx are to close player wise to distinguish a leader.

However, I like Chad Ford's explanations for his choice. In LA it would be a constant drama fest with the two teams sharing the same home floor. He wouldn't be able to escape the questions about the Lakers for the rest of his career.

Although Phx hasn't shined lately, it is hard not to call them a top tier franchise. And it isn't just the team name, the ownership group hasn't really changed in 35 years. The Clippers were arguably one of the 4 or 5 worst teams in all professional sports before they signed some players last summer.

He won't have to worry about a fan base. Yes he has a large fan base in LA, but that is because it is the second largest basketball city in the US, and his team is based there. He is the type of player that has a very strong national fan base, that would follow him because of who he is, and not just because of the team he plays for.

The endorsement area might be a concern, however he is still locked in long term with Nike. (Unless of course he is found guilty, but then this doesnt matter). Although PHX is a small marketplace in comparrison to LA, TMAC and Garnett have no problems with endorsements, and they are in even smaller markets.



I can honestly say I think with the current list of team, Phx is the second choice behind LA assuming they can clear a contract or two.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by frdbtr
Then in the summer he is smart enough to get himself arrested for rape (oh and by the way there is a lot of evidence suggesting that he did it).

Yeah, you're right. If someone is smart they couldn't possibly be accused of anything.

And since when does anyone on this board have the slightest idea what they are talking about in a case where the only people who actually know what happened are arguing about it?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Originally posted by slinslin
"You can have him." - Anonymous Laker player.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by fordronken
Yeah, you're right. If someone is smart they couldn't possibly be accused of anything.

And since when does anyone on this board have the slightest idea what they are talking about in a case where the only people who actually know what happened are arguing about it?

Well, the first thing he could have done is kept his "you know what" in his pants. The second thing he could have done is stopped when the girl said "No" That would have been the smartest thing to do. I am 33 years old and to this date I have never been accused of Rape, I will never be accused of rape because I am smart (I am faithful to my wife). Kobe is stupid and selfish. Now I have just given all of you guys something to really flame me for so have fun.

 

[frdbtr]

Oh, one more thing, I would like someone to refute the evidence that I have given that he is a selfish player. Give evidence, not opinion. I have given evidence of things that Kobe said in the media that prove my point that he is selfish. He may still end up a Sun, and like I said, if he does, I will cheer for him to succeed and for the Suns to win a championship. But my entire point has been that I think he is a selfish player and is not a good fit for the Suns.

 

[elindholm]

I am 33 years old and to this date I have never been accused of Rape, I will never be accused of rape because I am smart (I am faithful to my wife).

No, that's why you haven't committed rape (or adultery).

You haven't been accused of rape because no one has anything to gain by accusing you.

If the Suns are going to limit themselves to players who are (a) smart about life and (b) always faithful to their friends and loved ones, they aren't going to have any team at all.

This board, for the most part, stood by Kidd after his wife-beating, because he seemed contrite about it. They stood by Marbury after his risky driving under the influence. They've stood by Hardaway and, earlier, Kevin Johnson in the face of bizarre accusations by the women (girls) in their lives.

I'd love for the athletes that I follow to be role models, but most of them aren't. I'd also like them to be winners. Between the two, I'd rather have them be winners.

If Kobe Bryant, by some miracle, wants to play for the Suns, it's an absolute no-brainer. Otherwise, give up sports and devote your life to charity.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Getting Kobe sure would put a different perspective on that trade.

Phoenix gives

Stephon Marbury
Penny Hardaway
Trybanski
Another player (White?, to clear a little more cap)

Phoenix gets

Kobe Bryant
Milos
Lampe
1st round pick
1st round pick
cash (was it $3 mil)
$6-8 million a year for the next few years. (This is the money we still save on payroll even after signing Kobe).

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by elindholm
[BI'd love for the athletes that I follow to be role models, but most of them aren't. I'd also like them to be winners. Between the two, I'd rather have them be winners.

If Kobe Bryant, by some miracle, wants to play for the Suns, it's an absolute no-brainer. Otherwise, give up sports and devote your life to charity. [/B]

I would submit that the Lakers have won in spite of Kobe's selfishness and because Shaq is such a great player. Maybe Kobe has become less selfish during the Lakers Championship years in the playoffs and that has given them the oportunity to win. Last year it didn't happen. I am still waiting for someone to sell me on the fact that Kobe is not a selfish player. I have never stated that he is not a good ball player. His talent level is amazing, however he is selfish and I would rather he not play for the Suns.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by frdbtr
I would submit that the Lakers have won in spite of Kobe's selfishness and because Shaq is such a great player. Maybe Kobe has become less selfish during the Lakers Championship years in the playoffs and that has given them the oportunity to win. Last year it didn't happen. I am still waiting for someone to sell me on the fact that Kobe is not a selfish player. I have never stated that he is not a good ball player. His talent level is amazing, however he is selfish and I would rather he not play for the Suns.

Well, he's averaged over 4 assists per game for the past 5 years. That's not that selfish.

 

[frdbtr]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Well, he's averaged over 4 assists per game for the past 5 years. That's not that selfish.

An assist doesn't make a player unselfish. The way he plays with his teammates makes him unselfish. What makes Kobe selfish is his attitude. Of course this is just speculation but do you think that Michael Jordan would have complained about playing with Shaq if they won championships together? For Michael it was all about winning. With Kobe it is all about proving that he is the best. Micheal was the best because he was the ultimate winner. Kobe is selfish because he is a me first player. I am not making this up. I have read the headlines on Kobe and if he was unselfish his statements would be about the team. His statements are always about himself.

 

[frdbtr]

I hope I am not sounding too patronizing or angry. I guess I just have a difference of opinion. I have seen selfish players go to a new team and destroy the chemestry. I loved Charles Barkley in 92-93 when he led the suns to the finals and then I felt that he became a selfish player and destroyed the Suns chemestry. When he went to Houston I predicted that if he didn't win a championship with Houston in the first year that he was there the he would destroy the Rockets chemestry. One John Stockten 3 pointer later Charles becomes a Selfish player and the Rockets are still trying to recover. Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. I hope the it is all moot point and we don't sign Kobe, for some reason, but if he ends up a Sun I will cheer for him to succeed, like I have said in other posts.

 

[Chaplin]

I definitely understand your point of view--and I will concede that he does have a few issues (especially this year). But I do not think he wouldn't fit with this team because he is selfish. I would love to have the talent on the team, but you have to take the personality with it, and while his attitude may fit the LA thang, hopefully he would be mature enough to change it in a new city.

 

[BMF]

Originally posted by frdbtr
I hope I am not sounding too patronizing or angry. I guess I just have a difference of opinion. I have seen selfish players go to a new team and destroy the chemestry. I loved Charles Barkley in 92-93 when he led the suns to the finals and then I felt that he became a selfish player and destroyed the Suns chemestry. When he went to Houston I predicted that if he didn't win a championship with Houston in the first year that he was there the he would destroy the Rockets chemestry. One John Stockten 3 pointer later Charles becomes a Selfish player and the Rockets are still trying to recover. Anyway, I guess we can agree to disagree on this one. I hope the it is all moot point and we don't sign Kobe, for some reason, but if he ends up a Sun I will cheer for him to succeed, like I have said in other posts.

Don't worry I agree with you. Kobe is selfish. If he came here it would be about him. He would want his 40 touches a game and want to be able to win a championship as the undisputed leader of the team. If Kobe came here we would be hearing of "team Kobe" more than anything else........

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by frdbtr
An assist doesn't make a player unselfish.

It does mean that Kobe passed to a teammate who scored due to his pass. 4 assists= at least 8 points due to your passes. I'd take that from a high scoring, dominant shooting guard anyday of the week.

Originally posted by frdbtr
The way he plays with his teammates makes him unselfish..

I agree.

Originally posted by frdbtr
What makes Kobe selfish is his attitude. Of course this is just speculation but do you think that Michael Jordan would have complained about playing with Shaq if they won championships together?

That would just be speculation. Maybe Jordan (who had an enormous ego, BTW) would have been pissed. Maybe not. Who knows?

Originally posted by frdbtr
For Michael it was all about winning. With Kobe it is all about proving that he is the best.?

Don't kid yourself. Michael did win 6 titles, but he was all about being the best. Being the best generally translates into winning...

Originally posted by frdbtr
Micheal was the best because he was the ultimate winner. Kobe is selfish because he is a me first player.

Michael was one of the most selfish players that I ever witnessed. He was successful because he played with a me first attitude (wanted all the big shots, tried to singlehandedly carry the offensive load, and played great defense) like Kobe.

Originally posted by frdbtr
I am not making this up. I have read the headlines on Kobe and if he was unselfish his statements would be about the team. His statements are always about himself.

I have read the headlines too, and while I think he is a selfish player, what modern superstar (in basketball) doesn't look out for themselves. Shaq, KG, TMac, Marbury, etc. are all "selfish" players. Duncan can be, and Kidd can be as well. It comes with being competitive, and believing that you can be the difference between winning and losing.

I think that Kobe is guilty, but it won't make me hate my team for going after him if he's pronounced "not guilty". And the evidence isn't a slam dunk; I thought it was, but I'm not so sure now.

 

[newfan101]

I guess I'm alone in thinking selfishness isn't a bad thing. I think every superstar in some ways is selfish and cocky. Some more than others. What I look for is how that is translated to the good of the team. Kobe wants the ball and the limelight, but he also wants to win more than anyone else. So did Jordan. I don't know if the same can be said for the Ricky Davis's of the NBA.

It seems that those opposed to going after Kobe have a personal problem with his morality. I agree with elindholm: if you can't handle it, stop watching sports and do charity work. Otherwise you will ALWAYS be let down.