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Joe Mama

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http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=14561

Marion starting to turn it on

By Mike Tulumello, Tribune

Shawn Marion's All-Star status likely won't be repeated this season. But his All-Star talent remains.

Just check out the numbers over the past six games. The Suns small forward has averaged 26 points on 48 percent shooting, plus all kinds of additional dazzling stats: 12.2 rebounds, 3.5 assists, 2.2 steals and 1.7 blocks in 43 minutes per game.

The most interesting point in all this is the phrase "the past six games."

This marks the time since Amare Stoudemire went down with a serious ankle injury. Until then, Marion had only looked like a shadow of his All-Star stuff.

Clearly, the mix of players roles the first couple of months of the season didn't go smoothly.

Last season, everyone knew that Marion and Stephon Marbury made the team go. Everyone else filled in around them.

This season — when Stoudemire and Joe Johnson were presumed rising stars able to handle a bigger role in the team's offense — the mix turned sour.

"That could be it," new coach Mike D'Antoni said, with a tone more certain than his words.

"That's what we've been trying to do: define people's roles."

Marion seems sure of this theory, saying of the change in roles early this season, "It wasn't the same.

"Everybody knows this is me and Steph's team," Marion said, while adding, "Amare will get his, too, when he comes back."

Marion also repeated his occasionally stated idea that his drop-off in production may have been linked to a change in the team's offense.

In Marion's view, the team used more pick-and-rolls this season, where he wasn't as involved. Now, it's using a part of the team's motion offense that includes him more, he suggests.

"I wasn't involved in the pick-and-rolls. I was left out a little."

Yet, he concedes, "I should have been more aggressive in other ways." He also says former coach Frank Johnson discouraged him from taking 3-pointers, a past strength but a weakness this season (barely 30 percent).

After hearing this, "There was crazy stuff going through my head."

Then, he started his comeback about the time the Suns came back from a 29-point deficit to win in Boston. Then, "Frank said, 'Just play. If you have an open shot, take it.' " Of course, there's one other little stat to point out: The Suns are 0-6 since Stoudemire went down.

So obviously, the Suns need the reigning rookie of the year. The trick will be to integrate him in a way that more mirrors his role last season as an inside force.

"He (Marion) had a great year last year, and Amare was there," D'Antoni points out. "Sometimes, guys go through a down period. "He (Marion) has come out of it."

Of Stoudemire, D'Antoni said, "We can't win without an inside presence. He (Stoudemire) gets to the foul line. And we don't get to the free-throw line enough."

Which begs the old question of why Marion doesn't do the same. At times, he has said, "It's not my game."

D'Antoni repeats the question, then seems resigned to the answer.

"Would we love to get Shawn to the line more? Sure. . . .

"But you have to deal with reality. Shawn is Shawn. He's an All-Star. He's a great player."

In other words, the Suns will take him the way he is. At least the way he has been the past six games.
 

Suns_fan69

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Which begs the old question of why Marion doesn't do the same. At times, he has said, "It's not my game."

As much as I like Marion, the above is a bit of a cop out on his part. If he truly wanted to be a better player (and by many accounts he does), he'd try and make it a part of his game, much like he's made the 3pt shot a part of his game.
 

JCSunsfan

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Originally posted by Joe Mama
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=14561
This season — when Stoudemire and Joe Johnson were presumed rising stars able to handle a bigger role in the team's offense — the mix turned sour.

"That could be it," new coach Mike D'Antoni said, with a tone more certain than his words.

"That's what we've been trying to do: define people's roles."

Marion seems sure of this theory, saying of the change in roles early this season, "It wasn't the same.

"Everybody knows this is me and Steph's team," Marion said, while adding, "Amare will get his, too, when he comes back."

"I wasn't involved in the pick-and-rolls. I was left out a little."

Yet, he concedes, "I should have been more aggressive in other ways." He also says former coach Frank Johnson discouraged him from taking 3-pointers, a past strength but a weakness this season (barely 30 percent).

After hearing this, "There was crazy stuff going through my head."

"He (Marion) had a great year last year, and Amare was there," D'Antoni points out. "Sometimes, guys go through a down period. "He (Marion) has come out of it."


So there it is. The big difference between last year and this. Tell JJ to be more aggressive, and Marion doesn't get the touches. Bang the ball inside to Amare, and Shawn doesn't know where he stands.

Its quite obvious that Shawn's psyche is quite delicate, and FJ didn't handle the changing roles very well.

We all know Steph is the first offensive option. That's just the way he is built. If we don't want him to be, then we need to trade him for a pg who fits that role. There is nothing wrong with asking him to get his teammates more involved, but he is still the #1 offensive option.

Here is the big question. Who's #2. Where is our future at the #2 option. Is it Amare's inside game or is it Shawn's slashing/shooting game. I'm sorry Shawn. Amare is our future and his inside game is going to be our second option (or even option 1b). Shawn, your game is ideally suited to play the ultimate side-kick, do it well, and don't worry that you are making so much money. Enjoy the money, and the wins both.
 

green machine

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I think it should be Steph/Amare/Shawn. Post up Amare, and if Shawn slashes and moves without the ball Amare should be able to find him. If Marion could get his 3 point percentage back to where it was last year things would look better too.
 

slinslin

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Amare is our #1. He should be the first option very soon. They need to take advantage of him in the post drawing double teams and kick it out to Marion.
They need to get him the ball much more when he establishes position or rolls to the basket.
 

SweetD

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IMO Amare should be the third option, we need to move Marion to the SG and play JJ at the SF. Marbury/Marion/Amare/JJ/Everyone Else. Amare is a good player but right now he is playing way to far from the basket. I am tired of seeing him standing at the free throw line just waiting to get the ball and shoot the jumper. I would like to see him down low more. I think moving JJ to SF would give him the ability to move around more and let Marion stand out at the three point line to drive or shoot the jumper.
 

PhiLLmattiC

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Thats a nice idea but it doesn't maximize on marions rebound ability if he's playing the perimeter. I think thats why thyre not doing now. He's also not very confident taking smaller defenders off the dribble.
 

SweetD

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Originally posted by PhiLLmattiC
Thats a nice idea but it doesn't maximize on marions rebound ability if he's playing the perimeter. I think thats why thyre not doing now. He's also not very confident taking smaller defenders off the dribble.

What would be different than what he is doing know. Currently they swich him onto the SG on D anyways and this might get him into the fast breaks more instead of Penny, JJ, or Casey.
 

PhiLLmattiC

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When he guards the sg guards of the other team his rebound production isn't so good. That may aslo be bcause of amare being there but i think its because he's drawn away from the basketball.
 

slinslin

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It doesn't make a difference.

Joe Johnson strength's seems to be his slashing. Marion proved last season that his shooting is his strength and fastbreak game of course.

This season the Suns seemed like they tried to turn Marion into the slasher and Johnson into the shooter. Didn't work out.

With Amare getting his points inside, Marbury getting most of his points inside, we need Marion to shoot well and space the floor. We can't have our 3 first options all trying to get something inside.

When Joe Johnson is the slasher he can take much more advantage of his passing as well.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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Originally posted by slinslin

This season the Suns seemed like they tried to turn Marion into the slasher and Johnson into the shooter. Didn't work out.

You know, I never quite looked at it that way. You might be right. If Shawn wasn't a streaky shooter, it would be much better of course.

Right now the offense option should be Steph, Shawn, Amare.

However in the future I think it will be Amare, Steph, Shawn. If marion cut to the hoop as someone else said when Amare gets the ball, it would lead to a lot of easy buckets. Amare looks like he will be a great passer from the post as his career progresses, and he will need Shawn to take advantage of that.

Of course I figure that Amare and Steph will still average over 20 points a game, with Shawn around 18. They will all get their stats in theory, just in different ways.
 

George O'Brien

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we need to move Marion to the SG

Marion is not a good ball handler and is an outstanding rebounder. Pulling him from forward takes away his strength and puts more emphasis on his weakness.

play JJ at the SF

I am leaning toward using JJ as a backup SF and starting Casey as SG. Overall, I think Shawn's game is too similar to JJ to give good balance. Both should be attacking the basket, both are streak shooters, and both are capable rebounders. Shawn is a better rebounder and shot blocker, JJ is a good passer (but poor dribbler).

Casey seems tentative about taking shots, but he has been hitting a good percentage of them. Starting Casey and getting him touches might reduce the amount of time the Suns are facing zone defenses.
 

JCSunsfan

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Anyone here starting to think that Barbosa might be our long term answer at SG?

I've always thought of him as a pg, but he seem to have the length to play the 2. He is a very good defender.

A Marbs/Barbs combo at the guard spots reminds me alot of the Thomas/Dumars combo that won 2 titles.

Dumars was a smallish two that could defend, and he was also the backup pg. Thomas was a shoot first pg, that really was a better passer and assist man than many recognized at the time.
 

slinslin

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As I already pointed out the Suns would be dumb to force Barbosa to play out of position.

If Barbosa reaches his potential he will either make Marbury expandable or be a very valueable trade commodity himself.

Those Pistons wouldn't win a championship right now in my opinion. 15 years ago the average NBA player wasn't not as tall or athletic.
 

George O'Brien

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15 years ago the average NBA player wasn't not as tall or athletic.

The Pistons beat an extremely athletic Blazers team. The Blazers had better personnel, but were not prepared for Pistons thuggery.

None the less, I am not sure Barbosa is really an NBA class point guard right now. As it is, they use him with either Penny or Stephon, so he does not have to really run the offense.

I'm not sure I understand why playing Barbosa at SG is going to hurt his development. It did not hurt Steve Nash when the Suns had Kidd and Kevin Johsnon. Using Barbosa in as a SG might get him more minutes and he needs the experience.
 
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