Long holdout for Dan Williams???

[joeshmo]

Note that I do not have any inside info on this and I have not heard or read anything to suggest this. This is only a feeling based on current and past situations.

Last time there was CBA uneasiness no 1st rounders were signed by today, and only 8 were signed by the 30th. Only 9 first rounders made it to camp on time. Now fast forward to today, again no 1st rounders signed by the 20th, only 1 2nd rounder signed as of today, close to 40% of the draft picks not even signed yet, no sign what so ever a single 1st rounder will be signed any time soon, all on top of the fact that this CBA uneasiness is far worse then the last one.

I fully expect Dan Williams and his fellow 1st rounders to miss a lot of training camp on average. More so then we have ever seen before. Heck I fully expect to see more 2nd round holdouts then we have ever seen.

If we get Washington in on time we could be ahead of most of the NFL IMO.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I kinda expected this knowing the current state.

Still sucks.

And yes, if the Cardinals pull off getting all but Williams in then they would be leading the crowd.

They also have a complex negotiation with O'Brien Schofield. With his injury and the impending work stoppage, his first game time might be two years from now.....crazy.

 

[lobo]

Note that I do not have any inside info on this and I have not heard or read anything to suggest this. This is only a feeling based on current and past situations.

Last time there was CBA uneasiness no 1st rounders were signed by today, and only 8 were signed by the 30th. Only 9 first rounders made it to camp on time. Now fast forward to today, again no 1st rounders signed by the 20th, only 1 2nd rounder signed as of today, close to 40% of the draft picks not even signed yet, no sign what so ever a single 1st rounder will be signed any time soon, all on top of the fact that this CBA uneasiness is far worse then the last one.

I fully expect Dan Williams and his fellow 1st rounders to miss a lot of training camp on average. More so then we have ever seen before. Heck I fully expect to see more 2nd round holdouts then we have ever seen.

If we get Washington in on time we could be ahead of most of the NFL IMO.

as you pointed out if it is a long holdout it will be for all the first rounders i don't think the team will be much different than anyone else...the current cba is truly nuts....brady/manning are going to make less than the kid the rams took first....something gotta' give...probably a rookie pay scale will be put in place

 

[lobo]

I kinda expected this knowing the current state.

Still sucks.

And yes, if the Cardinals pull off getting all but Williams in then they would be leading the crowd.

They also have a complex negotiation with O'Brien Schofield. With his injury and the impending work stoppage, his first game time might be two years from now.....crazy.

this is true, but there is so much money at stake i think the hardball part of the negotiations might not be as long as you might expect...NOW..off topic if the NBA goes that is a different topic as the inmates really run the asylum there and the owners do not have nearly the depth of pockets...and they are in fact losing their tidy whities as a league.

 

[82CardsGrad]

Sucks...

So, Matt Leinart will not be playing football in Glendale in 2011 because, A.) He really does suck as a NFL QB and the Cards decide to cast him off...
B.) Work Stoppage...

 

[bg7brd]

With all the good things I'm hearing about Gabe Watson this off season, Williams better get his butt in to camp if he's going to wrestle some playing time away from Robinson and Sponge Bob Square Back.

 

[Solar7]

There's certainly teams that are going to have trouble signing their first rounders on time, thanks to the CBA. But, it helps that we're not negotiating in that top ten, or even top 16 area. I feel that the slotting will still be close to the same standard we've seen in the past years, that is a certain percentage of an increase over the previous year. It will be interesting to see how teams negotiate contract length and things like escalators. I still feel that Williams will be in on time, or at least close to it.

But the O'Brien Schofield issue is a tough one. Hopefully the team and he can agree to something pretty incentive laden.

 

[kerouac9]

With all the good things I'm hearing about Gabe Watson this off season, Williams better get his butt in to camp if he's going to wrestle some playing time away from Robinson and Sponge Bob Square Back.

From where?

Honestly, if this contract holdout runs over a week, it's bad. The concern is over 2nd year option bonuses, and Williams shouldn't even be eligible for one.

10 days should be plenty of time to get Washington done. Another week and the front office isn't trying hard enough.

 

[football karma]

But the O'Brien Schofield issue is a tough one. Hopefully the team and he can agree to something pretty incentive laden.

I don't think so

Schofield's agent will make the slotting argument, and he is going to be right

The Cardinals knew what Schofield's medicals were when they drafted him

 

[PDXChris]

From where?

Honestly, if this contract holdout runs over a week, it's bad. The concern is over 2nd year option bonuses, and Williams shouldn't even be eligible for one.

10 days should be plenty of time to get Washington done. Another week and the front office isn't trying hard enough.

Dockett talked about it today on Gambo and Ash as well as on Bickley and MJ. Said he looks completely different.

 

[bg7brd]

Dockett talked about it today on Gambo and Ash as well as on Bickley and MJ. Said he looks completely different.

And they did a segment on him on Sunday night sports ( I forget which channel). I also remember hearing he was putting a lot of time in the gym months ago. Lets hope he stays off the tread mill.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Don't worry, we still have Alan Branch in a contract year.

Kind of serious though. Branch seems like the kind of lazy talented player who will significantly improve his performance when playing for money than rape a team of it's cash when they pay him big time.

 

[PoolBoy]

Don't worry, we still have Alan Branch in a contract year.

Kind of serious though. Branch seems like the kind of lazy talented player who will significantly improve his performance when playing for money than rape a team of it's cash when they pay him big time.

sounds like someone we can hope an NFC west team wastes money on

 

[joeshmo]

Dockett talked about it today on Gambo and Ash as well as on Bickley and MJ. Said he looks completely different.

Just to elaborate a little more on those two interviews. Dockett said that they went outside to do about 30 minutes worth of shuttles, sprints and stuff like that. Dockett stated that Watson was sticking with him speed wise the whole time. Talked about how he has changed his body. Also talked about taking Dan Williams under his wing, both in the weight room and the mental aspect. He is telling our Interior OLmen to get their minds right for training camp or else Watson and Williams are going to quote "Beat their asses".

Jurecki stated he thought Watson has so far had the best offseason of any player on the team. I have heard Lott gush about Watson this offseason but this is the first time someone has collaborated that thought from Lott.

 

[Stout]

Just to elaborate a little more on those two interviews. Dockett said that they went outside to do about 30 minutes worth of shuttles, sprints and stuff like that. Dockett stated that Watson was sticking with him speed wise the whole time. Talked about how he has changed his body. Also talked about taking Dan Williams under his wing, both in the weight room and the mental aspect. He is telling our Interior OLmen to get their minds right for training camp or else Watson and Williams are going to quote "Beat their asses".

Jurecki stated he thought Watson has so far had the best offseason of any player on the team. I have heard Lott gush about Watson this offseason but this is the first time someone has collaborated that thought from Lott.

This is excellent news.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I am so excited for the D-Line.... We could be really deep this year.

 

[JeffGollin]

Some (Bizarre) Random Thoughts on a Lazy Mid-July Wednesday

1. If the Cards are pretty sure Schofield will be on-ice for 2010, couldn't they put his contract temporarily on the back shelf to give them more cap wriggle-room with the rest of this year's rookie contracts (since he wouldn't be playing this year anyway)?

2. If things remain iffy re the CBA, would it be (a) "legal" and/or (b) desirable to sign rookies to "temporary" or one-year-at-a-time renewable deals with some sort of option written into each contract that negotiations will be re-opened once the CBA issue is worked out?

3. From what I've seen and heard (from Wiz, Nine-Oh and others), Dan Williams is really busting his hump in the off season to be the best he can be. From this, I'm guessing that his mind-set is biased toward getting a deal done sooner rather than later.

4. The CBA issue involves entire League. I'd be much more concerned if nearly all the other teams had signed their #1's and Dan was one of a handful of holdouts.

 

[Brighteyes]

I am so excited for the D-Line.... We could be really deep this year.

Maybe I just hadn't noticed it before --

-- but I love your avatar

 

[kerouac9]

1. If the Cards are pretty sure Schofield will be on-ice for 2010, couldn't they put his contract temporarily on the back shelf to give them more cap wriggle-room with the rest of this year's rookie contracts (since he wouldn't be playing this year anyway)?

2. If things remain iffy re the CBA, would it be (a) "legal" and/or (b) desirable to sign rookies to "temporary" or one-year-at-a-time renewable deals with some sort of option written into each contract that negotiations will be re-opened once the CBA issue is worked out?

3. From what I've seen and heard (from Wiz, Nine-Oh and others), Dan Williams is really busting his hump in the off season to be the best he can be. From this, I'm guessing that his mind-set is biased toward getting a deal done sooner rather than later.

4. The CBA issue involves entire League. I'd be much more concerned if nearly all the other teams had signed their #1's and Dan was one of a handful of holdouts.

1. Schofield is a fifth-round pick, right? Is it really going to be worth it to piss off a player over saving some $75,000 on a signing bonus? What a terrible idea. Also, if Schofield isn't under contract, I don't think that your medical/rehab/training team is working with him. It's probably worth the $148,000 (or whatever) to ensure that he's getting the training and rehab that you want.

2. This isn't an important issue for our draft picks. Really, it's not. There isn't even a "rookie cap" this season, so teams are being disingenuous if they say that 2nd year option bonuses are what's holding up the deal here. The option bonus is meant to circumvent the rookie cap. None of our draft picks should be eligible for option bonuses, so it doesn't matter. That being said, I'm not sure why an agent would accept a series of one-year deals for their player. Draft picks after the second round are essentially playing on one-year deals anyway, but the problem with your idea is that there may not be a RFA or EFA system in the new CBA (although there probably will be), so if you sign Daryl Washington to a one-year contract and he's defensive rookie of the year, why would he sign a new deal with us?

3. Rod Woodson was on NFL Live last night and essentially said that whether a guy gets into camp on time has little to nothing to do with the player's desire to get with the team. Remember two years ago when DRC was asking his agent if it would be all right if he just went up to Flagstaff and watched practices? The agent is not going to let his player report until he gets a market-value contract.

4. If Williams is "slotted" and a holdout continues, I'll be more angry. But I really don't expect there to be much holdouts this season. Maybe (probably?) among the Top 15, but the option bonus issue doesn't exist for the vast majority of draft picks. It's the annual deadline mentality.

 

[Mulli]

More angry? Does that mean you are angry about this already? A tad early for that isn't it?

 

[TJ]

Don't worry, we still have Alan Branch in a contract year.

Kind of serious though. Branch seems like the kind of lazy talented player who will significantly improve his performance when playing for money than rape a team of it's cash when they pay him big time.

Let him rape another team, as long as he plays out of his mind his final season with us. Id like to actually get something from our 2nd round pick from 2007.

 

[kerouac9]

More angry? Does that mean you are angry about this already? A tad early for that isn't it?

More angry than if there were 10 holdouts in the Bottom 15 of the first round. More angry than when Antrel Rolle's holdout went way too long.

I'm unhappy with the way the front office handled it's business this last offseason. I understand the reasoning, but I'm not happy about it. In order to redeem himself for this offseason and justify that big new contract, IMO Rod Graves needs to see a handful of things happen:

1. The Cards win at least 7 games barring an almost unconscionable run of injuries.
2. Two "big" or one "big" and three or four "small" pending free agents get contract extensions. (The big guys being Fitz, Breaston, Dockett, and maybe Warner) This should happen by Christmas.
3. No contract holdouts beyond the first week of camp. That week doesn't matter much on a four year contract, but there's no reason that the Cards should have rookie holdouts every year under the Graves regime.

I'm patient right now. I use this time to learn about the rest of the league and see where things lie. I'm not even pissed that we haven't done anything to help the cornerback position and we still have Paris Lenon starting at WILB.

Graves could buy a lot of time with me if he found a way to get Adalius Thomas signed and into training camp to compete with Gerald Hayes. Wouldn't cost much, and he'd take some pressure off Clark Haggans to be a swing ILB/OLB.

 

[Mulli]

More angry than if there were 10 holdouts in the Bottom 15 of the first round. More angry than when Antrel Rolle's holdout went way too long.

I'm unhappy with the way the front office handled it's business this last offseason. I understand the reasoning, but I'm not happy about it. In order to redeem himself for this offseason and justify that big new contract, IMO Rod Graves needs to see a handful of things happen:

1. The Cards win at least 7 games barring an almost unconscionable run of injuries.
2. Two "big" or one "big" and three or four "small" pending free agents get contract extensions. (The big guys being Fitz, Breaston, Dockett, and maybe Warner) This should happen by Christmas.
3. No contract holdouts beyond the first week of camp. That week doesn't matter much on a four year contract, but there's no reason that the Cards should have rookie holdouts every year under the Graves regime.

I'm patient right now. I use this time to learn about the rest of the league and see where things lie. I'm not even pissed that we haven't done anything to help the cornerback position and we still have Paris Lenon starting at WILB.

Graves could buy a lot of time with me if he found a way to get Adalius Thomas signed and into training camp to compete with Gerald Hayes. Wouldn't cost much, and he'd take some pressure off Clark Haggans to be a swing ILB/OLB.

Sounds reasonable. CB position is scary.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

More angry than if there were 10 holdouts in the Bottom 15 of the first round. More angry than when Antrel Rolle's holdout went way too long.

I'm unhappy with the way the front office handled it's business this last offseason. I understand the reasoning, but I'm not happy about it. In order to redeem himself for this offseason and justify that big new contract, IMO Rod Graves needs to see a handful of things happen:

1. The Cards win at least 7 games barring an almost unconscionable run of injuries.
2. Two "big" or one "big" and three or four "small" pending free agents get contract extensions. (The big guys being Fitz, Breaston, Dockett, and maybe Warner) This should happen by Christmas.
3. No contract holdouts beyond the first week of camp. That week doesn't matter much on a four year contract, but there's no reason that the Cards should have rookie holdouts every year under the Graves regime.

I'm patient right now. I use this time to learn about the rest of the league and see where things lie. I'm not even pissed that we haven't done anything to help the cornerback position and we still have Paris Lenon starting at WILB.

Graves could buy a lot of time with me if he found a way to get Adalius Thomas signed and into training camp to compete with Gerald Hayes. Wouldn't cost much, and he'd take some pressure off Clark Haggans to be a swing ILB/OLB.

Thomas is an outside LB in a 3-4, to the best of my knowledge, and one whose play has considerably dropped off since leaving the Ravens.

I'm perhaps easier to please, and thus quite happy with the proactive approach to dealing with a disgruntled "Q"; filling the void at FS; moving up in the draft to get the player clearly identified as heir apparent to Dansby - and quickly reacting when Faneca became available.

 

[kerouac9]

Thomas is an outside LB in a 3-4, to the best of my knowledge, and one whose play has considerably dropped off since leaving the Ravens.

I'm perhaps easier to please, and thus quite happy with the proactive approach to dealing with a disgruntled "Q"; filling the void at FS; moving up in the draft to get the player clearly identified as heir apparent to Dansby - and quickly reacting when Faneca became available.

Thomas played very well as an ILB in New England last year when he was asked to play that role. He can fill the responsibilities of a SILB much better than Hayes has shown he can at this point in his career, IMO. I don't think that Adalius Thomas can be a game-changer at OLB and I wouldn't want the team to give him a six-year, $40 million contract or anything, but he's as good or better than Gerald Hayes and maybe Clark Haggans. If you're serious about having competition in camp, this is how you demonstrate it.

I think the front office probably got a good deal for Q, although I don't like what they did with the picks they got for him. They probably could've dealt Q last season and gotten as much or more. I don't believe that Daryl Washington is going to be able to replace Karlos Dansby (and certainly won't this season), and I'm sure that Paris Lenon won't be able to replace Karlos Dansby. Then entire Dansby affair was poorly handled for years, and I think the team is going to regret losing a playmaker in their back 7. Arizona was the only place that Faneca was going to go, so whatever there.

As I said in another thread, the Cards did not, IMO, do a good job allocating their resources thus far through the postseason. I don't really care as long as they shore up their foundation for the future with that saved money.

I think the long and the short of it is that I don't believe that this team improved--even if you exclude Warner's retirement--between the end of 2009 and the team that we're bringing to training camp. They don't have to improve in the short-term every year: I think that they looked to have some stop-gaps last season to keep the Super Bowl core together. But if you're not working to improve in the short term, you have to prove that you're looking to the long-term care of the franchise. Right now this team is not as good as they were last season. The goal for the front office should be to make sure that more bleeding doesn't occur next offseason.