Lou's Views: The Ultimate Head Coaching Debate

[KingLouieLouie]

I posted this originally back on 12/9/03 under this thread:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showthread.php?t=20921&highlight=kinglouielouie

Here's the post:
http://www.arizonasportsfans.com/vb/showpost.php?p=233589&postcount=25

I posed this old adage couple weeks ago...... Do the players make the coach or the coach make the players? Why I say this is that anyone could have won during Jimmie Johnson's tenure in
Dallas (the Herschel Walker trade was definitely a thing of genius), but look at what Johnson did in Miami?

Gruden went to Tampa Bay because he knew they were closer to a Superbowl title (with an up-and-coming team) opposed to a team that most of their 1st stringers are "getting up there in age" and would have to immediately go into a rebuilding mode... Also, Gruden probably had some power-struggles with Al Davis that were hidden behind-the-scenes, we never know......


Fassel probably demands more personnel control and that could be one of his problems in NY.....Again, the media obviously doesnt know or report every single detail of what happens behind closed-doors.... The Eagles have a very highly regarded and established GM, which would prevent Reid for questioning his decisions.....The other 2 you mentioned also have up-and-coming teams that any coach would salivate the opportunity to coach for them........

Here's the main issue with Graves....Would he hire a coach who soon become his future successor as GM? It's happened before...
Especially someone with a high ego, they wouldnt want to defer to someone who is as unproven as Graves is......

The Cardinals need to finally hire an offensive oriented coach especially if they're drafting a 1st round QB, with Boldin, Johnson, and Shipp already being the main weapons on offense.... Someone who can even elevate all of them to the next level....
No way would any of them want a tyrant like Coughlin, I just cant envision that......And no, I don't mean someone with "kid-gloves" like McGinnis does either, but someone who knows how to teach the Xs and Os more effectively and has had proven results with play-calling....

The "proven" debate.....The problem is here, all of us define "proven" differently..... A"proven" coach to me is someone who has been successful at every level, with any kind of team...
Whether it was the team with the best or worst talent, he always gets the most of his players..... An innovator probably in the sense that they aren't always willing to play with the percentages, willing to take risks..... I guess the reason why I bring-up certain names over and over again as candidates is that they have taken younger talent at certain positions and have molded/nutured them into All-Pros.....

If the coach doesnt get the power he desires, then he'll demand more money....

Jimmie Johnson has nothing to prove, why would he return back into the NFL? He would want to return back to a team that is just a year away from the Superbowl......

I rambled long enough for now!

It's ironic on how much of it still applies today in the Cardinals current search......

With current crop of candidates.....I contend that Whisenhunt was a coach back in the Steelers Super Bowl year due to immense talent that they have, but then in '06 there was a significant drop-off with the departures of Jerome Bettis and Randle-el.... One questions if Whisenhunt was unable to prevent his offense from dramatically slipping...what was the abberation? Did Whisenhunt warrant being considered among a favorite for any of the coaching vacancies just based on one-year in which anyone could have coached that potent offense to their full glory? Or of course, did this past season really dictate how he truly is as a coach.....

Mike Sherman benefited in Green Bay by having Brett Favre and all his solid WRs, and top notch RBs..... Was he also during his tenure someone who happened at be at the right place at the right time... inherited all of that talent.. or did he by anyway "coach them up"?

Then, you can also subjectively pose the question on all the other candidates.....

Rivera at least was successful during his stay w/both the Eagles as their LB coach and was credited with helping in the transformation of Jeremiah Trotter into a perennial pro-bowler.... Then, he went onto the Bears as their DC and that move immediately paid big dividends... To me, that's two instances in which he proved that he's the type who can guide players in improving their game, that he helped mold those players into something special.. that they werent already of that magnitude when he arrived at those two stops...

Chow coached players who had natural inherent abilities... and whos to say he should be recognized for how those players have advanced through the ranks?

Then, someone like Jim Caldwell just coaches Peyton Manning... enough said...

I guess I'm in favor of Rivera at this point... He won a ring as a player, has a solid coaching pedigree, is young.. an upstart....and is very assertive... He would want to prove his worth/keep immediately the Bidwills/Graves.. the rest of the FO.... players..etc..... He possesses all the attributes/qualifications necessary.....

I was championing Sean Payton back in '03/'04 and he proved with the Saints this past season that he has the midas touch.. that he could generate solid results anywhere he goes regardless.. and I have faith that trend will continue w/Rivera.....

Edit:
Just to add... I was elated when the Cardinals hired Denny, but he previous success elsewhere doesnt necessarily translate to success everywhere you go... In Denny's case though...he should have won at least three Super Bowls with the teams he coached during his tenure w/the Vikings..and obviously they never played in one during the span.. now..that definitely should tell everyone something.... He was the perfect illustration of benefiting from the players he somehow got surrounded with.... he didnt coach-up anyone there.. and he failed quite miserably here....

 

[Zeno]

I guess I'm in favor of Rivera at this point... He won a ring as a player, has a solid coaching pedigree, is young.. an upstart....and is very assertive... He would want to prove his worth/keep immediately the Bidwills/Graves.. the rest of the FO.... players..etc..... He possesses all the attributes/qualifications necessary.....

With Rivera you have to ask some questions too, how much of the coaching in Philly under Jim Johnson and in Chicago under Lovie Smith was actually his influence and not that of the the coaches he served under.

Thats up to the Cardinas front office to figure out. As is...

Does he have an offensive philosophy other than "smash mouth football"? How does that type of offense play to the strengths of players like Fitz, Q and Leinart?

 

[JeffGollin]

If there was a set-formula for success, the NFL would have 32 Coaches of the Year.

Compounding the challenge are:

1. The multiplicity of technical, strategic and human-relationship factors that go into being a successful HC

2. Makeup of the team needing the HC

3. Competitive/matchup environment of division and other opponents.

There are no rules. For every successful old school smash mouth coach like Lombardi, Belicheck and Parcells are ones who lay eggs - like Coughlin or Kush.

For every successful cerebral strategy guy like Bill Walsh or Holmgren, there are guys like Marc Trestman.

It should be a matter of the Cardinal family reviewing and analyzing the totality of each individual and going with the guy who appears to represent the best fit in order for the team to achieve its goals. (i.e. not necessarily making the appropriate choice or the popular choice but instead, making the right choice).