Lyle Overbay

[Ryanwb]

He's having a solid start to the season and is tied for 2nd currently in the majors in RBI. Good for him!!

I sorta figured him as a throw in, but he is looking like a solid guy in their batting order

 

[green machine]

I always figured he'd be a solid major-leaguer, and I'm glad for him.

That said, I'd do this trade all over again in a heartbeat.

 

[moviebuff316]

I think D-backs put too much pressure on him. He was hitting .270 when he was with AZ. He wasn't that bad.

 

[Lefty]

What is surprising is Lyle's power. He hit his 5th home run today. They had to get rid of Lyle to get Sexson and I would do this trade anyday but the key is signing Sexson to a long contract.

 

[BC867]

He's having a solid start to the season and is tied for 2nd currently in the majors in RBI. Good for him!!

I agree. Lyle Overbay had a world of potential when we brought him up.

When a player can't drive in runs to save his life one year, and is tied for 2nd in the Major Leagues the next, it's either circumstances or leadership.

Circumstances happen to you. Leadership is what a Coaching staff makes hapen.

I believe it's the difference between Bob Brenly's A.L. approach -- everybody swing for the fences. Sooner or later, someone is going to hit one out. That results in alot of popups and runners left in scoring position.

Versus the N.L. approach. Line drives, go for the gaps. The homeruns will follow. And the RBI's.

For Lyle Overbay, what a difference a year makes. And a new Manager. Just look at the numbers.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

Once again, the DBacks shrugged off another young player just because he didn't meet their idiotic expectations. Even though was one of the team leader's in OBP % and hit over .270 last year, Brenly never played him enough for him to build his confidence or get a rhythm and eventaully sent him back to Tucson. Way to go Garagiola, I'm sure that's the best way to nurture a young player's confidence. Who benches/demotes a rookie hitting .275, especially when he's supposed to be the 1B of the future after hitting over .340 at every minor league stop?

The sad thing for Overbay is he's going to lose his spot once Prince Fielder is ready in the next couple of years. In the end, once Colangelo realizes you don't spend 8 figures a year on a guy who hits .250 and whiffs 150 x a year(Sexson), the DBacks will have a 70 win season to show for:

1. A 23 year old lefty SP who can throw 100 MPH on a regular basis (De La Rosa)

2. At best an inexpensive solid LH middle of the rotation starter, at worst a good lefty in the 'pen (Capuano)

3. A former All Star 2B who still hasn't turned 30 (Spivey)

4. A solid glove and bat at 1B at a cheap salary (Overbay)

5. A multi-dimensional utility infielder (Counsell)

This trade goes down in the books as the latest in Garagiola Jr's years of ineptitude. For every Gonzo for Karim Garcia, there is a Hillenbrand-Kim, Durazo-Dessens, and Mantei-Penny. Garagiola Jr is an absolute joke with how he views players (the older the better). He has been saved by one thing, his risky signing of Randy Johnson. Let's face it, Randy blows out his arm in '98 and the DBacks are the Devil Rays. How this guy has gotten a free pass from the Phoenix area while Rod Graves gets killed on a near daily basis is beyond me.

 

[Ryanwb]

4. A solid glove and bat at 1B at a cheap salary (Overbay)

I agree with everything you say except this......Overbay was a liability in the field, he was awful. That said, he is a prototypical DH

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I agree with everything you say except this......Overbay was a liability in the field, he was awful. That said, he is a prototypical DH

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=6639

I'll go Jamesian with you. 95 starts, .997 fielding percentage, other fielding measurables seem to be on par with other average to above average first basemen. He's no Doug Mientkiewicz or John Olerud, but he's certainly better than guys like Giambi and Big Hurt.

I also forgot to mention Chad Moeller in the trade, who's a serviceable backup catcher.

 

[Ryanwb]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/fielding?statsId=6639

I'll go Jamesian with you. 95 starts, .997 fielding percentage, other fielding measurables seem to be on par with other average to above average first basemen. He's no Doug Mientkiewicz or John Olerud, but he's certainly better than guys like Giambi and Big Hurt.

I also forgot to mention Chad Moeller in the trade, who's a serviceable backup catcher.

Yeah, I was just going by what I saw on the field

 

[sly fly]

What's amazing is that the majority of people on this board were ripping on Overbay AND D. Bautista last year.

Now that both are rebounding from below-average years, everybody turns their attention to Joe G.

Milwaukee got a guy in Overbay who will make the All-Star team this year. And, Spivey is not too far behind.

Getting Sexson (and, hopefully keeping him) makes the trade brilliant due to the D-Backs depth (minors) at those spots.

The trade worked out for both teams.

 

[BC867]

Milwaukee got a guy in Overbay who will make the All-Star team this year. And, Spivey is not too far behind.

Perhaps if Ned Yost were managing here instead of the Brewers, guys like Overbay and Spivey would still be with the D'backs -- happy and doing their best.


Instead, Overbay tried to fit in with the Brenly's "hit 'em in the air" philosophy and Spivey was jockeyed around. Then he read in the paper that he'd be playing RF and, following Brenly's lead, responded in the paper that "2B is my position". After that, he had to leave.

But I agree with you, slyfly. The trade was good for both both clubs. Sexson brings magic to the D'backs and fans to The BOB.

 

[ArizonaLacky]

I think the trade was good for both sides, in that the brewers got alot of young talent and the dbacks got power and some one to bring more people into the seats. Brenly was impatient with his rookie first baseman and will regret it. Overbay is good, and he will be an all-star

 

[WildBB]

Quote: Mao Tosi

1. A 23 year old lefty SP who can throw 100 MPH on a regular basis (De La Rosa)

2. At best an inexpensive solid LH middle of the rotation starter, at worst a good lefty in the 'pen (Capuano)

3. A former All Star 2B who still hasn't turned 30 (Spivey)

4. A solid glove and bat at 1B at a cheap salary (Overbay)

5. A multi-dimensional utility infielder (Counsell)

While Overbay will indeed be a solid regular somewhere, for some time, the rest were all throwins, replaceable through the farm system. That said they always compared Overbay to Grace. Hit for avg. not power. Not something they wanted long-term when they had the opportunity to get their legit #4 in the lineup. This trade was made for Gonzo as much as anyone. They needed to have a legit guy in the #4 spot, and the only guy on their team that fills that is Sexon.
Spivey was a tremendous bust last year. There were some attitude issues, I guess.
An up and comer is Kata who replaced Counsell as their all around utility guy.
90% of this board would still make that trade. Case closed

 

[schillingfan]

Instead, Overbay tried to fit in with the Brenly's "hit 'em in the air" philosophy

And you know this just because you know it?

I have no clue where you get this bizarre idea that Bob Brenly is encouraging everyone to hit home runs. I think it's a case that you perceive that the deficit in the team is that they score a lot of their runs by home runs and you like "small ball".

Since you don't like Brenly then you blame him for the fact that the team hits more home runs than you would like.

 

[AZZenny]

BC867 would be perfectly happy if they were hitting HR - it's the pop-ups that piss him off. My limited understanding is that there are at least a couple things besides trying to swing for the fences that factor in to pop-ups, and if someone wants to weigh in on that, I'd like to hear the physics of it.

The part of the team hitting philosophy that I think is the problem is the relative lack of respect for working the count and taking the walk - the babybacks, much as I love 'em, are especially bad at that. Trace is an exception, but even he's looked less patient the last game or two.


btw, in the last few games BB has done a lot of hit and run, bunting over, double-steals, but I do not hear him getting any credit for playing 'smaller' ball ...

Ears wide open...

Nope, not a whisper!

 

[RLakin]

And you know this just because you know it?

I have no clue where you get this bizarre idea that Bob Brenly is encouraging everyone to hit home runs. I think it's a case that you perceive that the deficit in the team is that they score a lot of their runs by home runs and you like "small ball".

Since you don't like Brenly then you blame him for the fact that the team hits more home runs than you would like.

Last year Bob Brenly talked about how they wanted Lyle Overbay to be more aggressive and to look to drive pitches early in his at bats. In other words, fall into the same selfish hitting patterns that plagued most of the team last year. This does not necessarily mean Brenly was trying to get him to hit more homeruns, but I also got the impression that he was.
As to fielding, Overbay is a slightly above average first baseman, which in my book doesn’t mean much. Fielding percentages can be misleading and Danny Bautista is the perfect example of why. That guy makes more poor decisions than any other RF I’ve ever seen, whether that means taking bad angles, missing the cut off man, or nearly colliding with his CF on two occasions in two days.
The pressure is off in Milwaukee which helps Overbay a lot. Being away from that “players manager” Brenly doesn’t hurt either.

 

[BC867]

btw, in the last few games BB has done a lot of hit and run, bunting over, double-steals, but I do not hear him getting any credit for playing 'smaller' ball ...

Ears wide open...

Nope, not a whisper!

Your key phrase is "in the last few games". With Bob Brenly's history of treating the whole season as a Spring Training experiment, let's watch for consistency.

Yup, Zenny, that was a whisper.

 

[schillingfan]

I hate small ball anyway. I think it's vastly overrated, except in certain circumstances like tie games in the 9th inning when you only need one run.

The 2001 and 2002 D-Backs didn't play a lot of small ball and the 2002 guys led the NL in runs scored, they were 3rd in 2001. Same manager.

Rod, I agree with you on aggressive hitting - I hate that and believe that one of Overbay's good qualities was his plate discipline. His OBP was much higher than his BA, which was a good thing.

If I could eliminate the word aggressive out of advice to hitters, I would. But I don't see where aggressive equates with encouraging a batter to hit home runs as BC inferred. It may mean avoiding walks (bad) but doesn't mean he is advising batters to swing for the fences.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

I hate small ball anyway. I think it's vastly overrated

Tell that to the last two World Champs. Also tell that to the Yankees who have gotten away from their "National League" style offense that propelled them to 4 titles in the late 90s and have since been bounced from the playoffs four years in a row with lineups full of power hitters who can't play defense. Yeah, you'll be able to tear up the watered down staffs of the mediocre teams, but in the playoffs you're getting only the top three starters plus a lot of matchup pitching in the late innings with a smaller bullpen and the 4-5 starters. Against this pitching, batters simply cannot hit with the power they can in the regular season. When this inevitably happens every offseason, just imagine the advantage you have over your opponent if you can score runs without hitting the ball effectively.

Being able to advance runners is the one of the most important aspects of winning in the playoffs, far ahead of power hitting. The pitching, for the most part, is so good in the postseason, that you're going to need to be able to manufacture runs the old-fashioned way instead of relying on two singles and a 3 run shot (how has that strategy worked for the A's in the postseason recently?).

This is also why the Dodgers, Marlins, and Angels are the teams best suited for a deep playoff run. Pitching, defense, and ability to play small ball to score runs are the three most important aspects of winning in the postseason.

 

[schillingfan]

Tell that to the last two World Champs. Also tell that to the Yankees who have gotten away from their "National League" style offense that propelled them to 4 titles in the late 90s and have since been bounced from the playoffs four years in a row with lineups full of power hitters who can't play defense.

The numbers don't back you up on your assertions, you know. I believe that the Marlins and Giants both had better power numbers than the Yankees and Angels. We have certain perceptions of the Marlins and Angels that aren't necessarily true.

And small ball has nothing to do with defense, and it doesn't mean just hit home runs. The Yankees during their world series run ranked near the top in OBP. They had incredible plate discipline.

 

[sly fly]

Just another update to make us feel a little worse...

Overbay leads MLB in doubles with 21 and extended his hitting streak to 17 games.

What did this kid do wrong to get in the doghouse with Brenly (besides not hitting HR's)?

 

[BC867]

Just another update to make us feel a little worse...

Overbay leads MLB in doubles with 21 and extended his hitting streak to 17 games.

What did this kid do wrong to get in the doghouse with Brenly (besides not hitting HR's)?

Not drive in runs. Now he's showing that he's capable of doing it . . . with the right team.

He's sure left J.T. Snow in the dust.

 

[green machine]

Just another update to make us feel a little worse...

Overbay leads MLB in doubles with 21 and extended his hitting streak to 17 games.

What did this kid do wrong to get in the doghouse with Brenly (besides not hitting HR's)?

I remember Lyle had a huge hitting streak last year that boosted his average into the .360's I think, then he came back down to Earth.

I think the guy is good, but he's not this good.

 

[BOB_Man24]

I remember Lyle had a huge hitting streak last year that boosted his average into the .360's I think, then he came back down to Earth.

I think the guy is good, but he's not this good.

Besides we upgraded with Sexson....Our problem is that Sexson is not in our lousy lineup.

We also are seriously hurting without Curts presense. His attitude was one that could fire up a team. We dont have that this year....

 

[KingLouieLouie]

It's unfortunate that the only way the Dbacks would have been able to acquire Sexson was to rid of Schilling.....At least they got something in exchange for Schilling instead of just letting him "walk"...

Back to Overbay....The Dbacks were obviously desperate to finally obtain that power-hitting RH bat and it seemed that Sexson was the only one available at the right price and since the Brewers needed someone to fill the void of Sexson, Overbay became the most logical choice....In spite that, Overbay came to the Brewers w/out having the immense pressure and expectations the Dbacks placed on him, so the change of scenery is what he desperately needed..... And if Overbay wasnt part of the trade, where would the Dbacks play him?