Marcus Camby for Amare Stoudemire?

[mojorizen7]

Who's the resident capologi$t?
-They've both got durability issues.
-Could Stat,Melo, & AI co-exist?
-Camby would IMO cover all of the SUNS' weaknesses on defense.
-Would Denver want Stoudemire?
Never gonna happen but as of today, i'd make this deal in a NY minute if the Nuggets put it on the table.

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Amare Stoudemire #1 | Center | Phoenix SunsRoster: Height: 6-10 Weight: 245
Born: Nov 16, 1982 - Lake Wales, Florida
College: None
Draft: 2002 - 1st round (9th pick) by the Phoenix Suns

18.1 PTS
8.2 REB
0.7 AST
2.2 BLK

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Marcus Camby #23 | Center | Denver NuggetsRoster: Height: 6-11 Weight: 235
Born: Mar 22, 1974 - Hartford, Connecticut
College: Massachusetts
Draft: 1996 - 1st round (2nd pick) by the Toronto Raptors

9.9 PTS
15.0 REB
3.1 AST
3.4 BLKS

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[YouJustGotSUNSD]

This summer we were trying to find a way to do KT+filler for Camby, now we are content dropping STAT for him?

Oh my...

 

[dodie53]

wth?

 

[asudevil83]

wth?

indeed

there are a thousand things wrong with this rediculous trade.

MAYBE if Camby werent 34 and amare 25, but you are losing a good 10-12 years of production for what? maybe 2.

 

[nashman]

hellzz NO!!!!!!

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

First of all, this would put denver in the "steal of the century" category. Camby+Nene+2010 1st round pick is much more interesting.

 

[mjb21aztd]

lol I hope this is a joke no way in hell would anyone trade Amare for Camby if any manager did they deserve to be fired asap!

 

[dbUNIT16]

You can't be serious. That is the dumbest proposal I have ever seen. Trading a potential MVP candidate for a defensive player of the year candidate. There's something to be said for defense, but you don't trade one of the only scoring centers in the league for a shot blocker/rebounder! Just stupid!

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Camby would average like 18 rebounds with us though...

 

[dodie53]

what about Amare and filler for Ben Wallace and Nocioni??

 

[mojorizen7]

Wow. Sorry if i hurt anybody's feelings with this proposal.
The point about the age factor is definately a concern. However...

dbUNIT16You can't be serious. That is the dumbest proposal I have ever seen. Trading a potential MVP candidate for a defensive player of the year candidate. There's something to be said for defense, but you don't trade one of the only scoring centers in the league for a shot blocker/rebounder! Just stupid

Is having a D.O.Y. canidate on this team a bad thing? I think not.
The SUNS aren't lacking in the scoring catagory as we all know. Shot blocking, and offensive/defensive rebounding are whats missing & severly undervalued here IMO.

asudevil83Quote:
Originally Posted by dodie53
wth?

indeed

there are a thousand things wrong with this rediculous trade.

MAYBE if Camby werent 34 and amare 25, but you are losing a good 10-12 years of production for what? maybe 2. Today 04:00 AM

I agree with the fact that this trade would possibly mortgage our future.
I love Amare Stoudemire. I like the SUNS chances winning a title for the next 2 years with Camby at center rather than Amare though. So Camby plays two more years, would winning a title be worth Stoudemire becoming an MVP for the Nuggets 2 years from now? It'd be worth it in my book.

One more thing...anybody who knows the SUNS knows that the only time we can get any "game" from Diaw at all is when Amare's either sidelined w/injury, or resting on the bench. Follow?

YouJustGotSUNSDFirst of all, this would put denver in the "steal of the century" category. Camby+Nene+2010 1st round pick is much more interesting.

Sure.If the Nuggets were willing to part with all of the above....that'd make a good deal a great deal. Personally, i'm not so sure that the Nuggets would be willing to make this deal straight up.
-----------------------------
I appreciate the comments fellas, but i can't help but feel that Camby's game & defense is undervalued by some of you.

 

[Covert Rain]

Wow. Sorry if i hurt anybody's feelings with this proposal.

The point about the age factor is definately a concern. However...
Is having a D.O.Y. canidate on this team a bad thing? I think not.
The SUNS aren't lacking in the scoring catagory as we all know. Shot blocking, and offensive/defensive rebounding are whats missing & severly undervalued here IMO.

We are lacking in the scoring category? Shot blocking? Last time I checked we are near the top of the NBA in both categories. Are we watching the same team???

This team could use more rebounding though and better individual defense. I agree Camby could help there.

I agree with the fact that this trade would possibly mortgage our future.
I love Amare Stoudemire. I like the SUNS chances winning a title for the next 2 years with Camby at center rather than Amare though. So Camby plays two more years, would winning a title be worth Stoudemire becoming an MVP for the Nuggets 2 years from now? It'd be worth it in my book.

Why? Because Camby has one how many titles? This doesn't make sense. In your opinion you said the Suns need more scoring but you want to add a guy who has no offensive game. Then at the same time subtract our biggest scorer in the paint.

Camby could compliment Amare...not replace him. I would love to see Camby on this team but swapping him for Amare makes us worse offensively. Amare is our only legit inside presence in the paint. Camby doesn't replace points in the paint and turns us into the Dallas Mavericks. We would rely even more on the jump shot and only get points in the paint by layups.

One more thing...anybody who knows the SUNS knows that the only time we can get any "game" from Diaw at all is when Amare's either sidelined w/injury, or resting on the bench. Follow?
Sure.If the Nuggets were willing to part with all of the above....that'd make a good deal a great deal. Personally, i'm not so sure that the Nuggets would be willing to make this deal straight up.

Well that's has been true at times because Diaw has no game other then around the basket. He has zero outside shot. That is a reflection on Diaw's limited game, not Amare's. Notice how when Skinner and Amare have played together that has not been the case? Notice how last year when Kurt and Amare were together, that also wasn't the case?

The sad thing is that Diaw has been horrible this year even without Amare on the floor. He is still passing up open shots, getting worked on defense and can't even finish around the bucket this year. I think you should be pointing the finger at Diaw rather then Amare with Diaw's lack of success when on the floor with him.

I appreciate the comments fellas, but i can't help but feel that Camby's game & defense is undervalued by some of you.

Again, would love to see Camby on this team. His game would compliment this team if we had the right pieces. Amare is one of those pieces. I don't think people are undervaluing Camby's game as much as your undervaluing the need for Amare's presence if you add a guy like Camby.

 

[mojorizen7]

SteelDog...read it again.

Originally Posted by mojorizen7
Wow. Sorry if i hurt anybody's feelings with this proposal.

The point about the age factor is definately a concern. However...
Is having a D.O.Y. canidate on this team a bad thing? I think not.
The SUNS aren't lacking in the scoring catagory as we all know. Shot blocking, and offensive/defensive rebounding are whats missing & severly undervalued here IMO.

Don't get me wrong...i'm not a fan of Diaw's game but he's not going anywhere.
I'm not undervaluing Stoudemire's game but do you think that the SUNS' scoring avg would drastically drop off with a move like this? I don't think so.
You mentioned becoming worse offensively in doing this deal. On paper certainly. I don't have the numbers in front of me but i believe that in '05-'06 when Stat missed the entire season with injury the SUNS still finished first in scoring. I could be wrong, but i know we were in the top 5. I'll check on that one.
The SUNS won't have to score 118 pts and shoot 60% from the field every night with a legitamite defensive presence in the paint.....Not to mention our attrocious half-court defense.
Obviously having Camby & Stat here would be a match made in heaven but i disagree that Camby's game wouldn't be effective enough here surrounded by versatile scorers + the Nash factor to upgrade our title hopes.
As far as the SUNS ranking near the top in the shot-blocking category, i didn't know that. Skinner, Stat & Marion have done a nice job there. Although i'd venture that by the time we get deep into the season ala April/May, those numbers will go down.

 

[cly2tw]

Tell me, in which game of the Spurs' series you'd rather hypothetically have Camby instead of Amare and believe we'd have had a better chance to beat the Spurs?

Without Amare or someone of his offensive caliber we'd have really really hard time to score anything. And with Nash being the weaklink on defense that is here to stay, even with a DOP at the center our defense would only improve marginally. Nash will be abused like he was in the 4th quarter in last GS game. That's the reason DA is vehemently against any attempt to substitute offense with defense and only willing to improve defense without compromise on offense. Well, I know many think 05-06 Suns were smooth on offense without Amare. But we needed fairy storylines to get into the WCF and couldn't really contend there.

 

[mojorizen7]

Tell me, in which game of the Spurs' series you'd rather hypothetically have Camby instead of Amare and believe we'd have had a better chance to beat the Spurs?

Are you serious? Come on.

That's the reason DA is vehemently against any attempt to substitute offense with defense and only willing to improve defense without compromise on offense.

You are so right & thats the heart of the problem & DA's eventual downfall IMO.

Well, I know many think 05-06 Suns were smooth on offense without Amare. But we needed fairy storylines to get into the WCF and couldn't really contend there.

True it took an extremely high effort from all. Smooth or not...We still avg. 108 pts/gm. Tops in the league.
Having a defensive player of the year roaming the paint would allow for more risk taking from the Hill's,Bell's, & Barbosa's at the defensive end also. This is a luxury the SPURS guards have enjoyed for quite some time.

 

[elindholm]

Tell me, in which game of the Spurs' series you'd rather hypothetically have Camby instead of Amare and believe we'd have had a better chance to beat the Spurs?

Game 5.

 

[Covert Rain]

SteelDog...read it again.


Don't get me wrong...i'm not a fan of Diaw's game but he's not going anywhere.
I'm not undervaluing Stoudemire's game but do you think that the SUNS' scoring avg would drastically drop off with a move like this? I don't think so.
You mentioned becoming worse offensively in doing this deal. On paper certainly. I don't have the numbers in front of me but i believe that in '05-'06 when Stat missed the entire season with injury the SUNS still finished first in scoring. I could be wrong, but i know we were in the top 5. I'll check on that one.

Sorry misread that about offense. However, your forgetting how huge Diaw's play was for keeping the Suns at the top in offense. You would have to rely on his ability to play that way again.

There is nothing in Camby's history to suggest he could fill the paint on offense. So it's much more then just "on paper". Also, Diaw has back slided too far back to rely on him. Diaw has had plenty of opportunity to play without Amare on the court and has looked horrible. It's been happening since last season. This season is no different. People in Atlanta kept saying Diaw was having that great year because it was a contract year. I am starting to buy into it. Diaw and Camby combined don't equal Amare on offense.

The SUNS won't have to score 118 pts and shoot 60% from the field every night with a legitamite defensive presence in the paint.....Not to mention our attrocious half-court defense.
Obviously having Camby & Stat here would be a match made in heaven but i disagree that Camby's game wouldn't be effective enough here surrounded by versatile scorers + the Nash factor to upgrade our title hopes.
As far as the SUNS ranking near the top in the shot-blocking category, i didn't know that. Skinner, Stat & Marion have done a nice job there. Although i'd venture that by the time we get deep into the season ala April/May, those numbers will go down.

The only problem again, is that the Suns offense is predicated on in and out play. That means in the paint play is huge for this offensive scheme. I have no doubt the team would be better defensively. However, this isn't the east.

You also have to get to the free throw line during the playoffs. Remember that the year Amare was hurt this team ranked in the bottom of the NBA at free throw line attempts. I think they were last in the playoffs that year. That's with Steve and Diaw. Since Amare came back, we are back up there again. Sorry but Camby and his barely 60% percent from the line doesn't help at all. Many people, including myself feel this killed us in close games.

In terms of the Spurs, ask Tim Duncan who he would rather face in the playoffs. Camby or Amare? Amare always has big games against Tim Duncan. True that the Spurs guards have had the Luxury of Timmy roaming the paint. However, they have also had the Luxury of Duncan being a beast at the offensive end as well. Camby doesn't have that type of game and never will.

Again, I would love to ship out a combo of players or maybe include a third team to get Camby. Just not for Amare. That would be a disaster in the making.

 

[mojorizen7]

You also have to get to the free throw line during the playoffs. Remember that the year Amare was hurt this team ranked in the bottom of the NBA at free throw line attempts. I think they were last in the playoffs that year. That's with Steve and Diaw. Since Amare came back, we are back up there again. Sorry but Camby and his barely 60% percent from the line doesn't help at all. Many people, including myself feel this killed us in close games.

Valid point.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

The reason why I don't like Camby is that he's not an elite man on defender. Sure he's great at help defense and at rebounding, but I wouldn't be comfortable with him bodying up against Boozer, Brand, or Duncan in the playoffs. If we're going to get rid of Amare, we need someone who can play post defense in return.

 

[TBaslim]

what about Amare and filler for Ben Wallace and Nocioni??

Horrid

 

[TBaslim]

Who's the resident capologi$t?
-They've both got durability issues.
-Could Stat,Melo, & AI co-exist?
-Camby would IMO cover all of the SUNS' weaknesses on defense.
-Would Denver want Stoudemire?
Never gonna happen but as of today, i'd make this deal in a NY minute if the Nuggets put it on the table.

Horrid and awful

 

[mojorizen7]

Horrid and awful

Whatever you say Mike D. Let's bring in more offense.

 

[cly2tw]

Are you serious? Come on.

You are so right & thats the heart of the problem & DA's eventual downfall IMO.

True it took an extremely high effort from all. Smooth or not...We still avg. 108 pts/gm. Tops in the league.
Having a defensive player of the year roaming the paint would allow for more risk taking from the Hill's,Bell's, & Barbosa's at the defensive end also. This is a luxury the SPURS guards have enjoyed for quite some time.

I hate DA for stubbornness. But on this particular issue, I'd accept the rationale that we gotta have a conherent and complementary approach with the team roster and game plan. You sometimes just can't look at one aspect and say if we improved upon that while keeping everything else the same we'd have won this and that.

What can be improved is the playing time and rotation to make the team better prepared health wise for playoffs. But for the example at hand of Camby replacing Amare on the roster. I'm sure our defense would be a lot better, but due to weaklink in Nash, it can't be better than average not to mention those of Spurs, the Mavs, etc. However, our offene will suffer more than the little improvement on defense against the Spurs. The key being Nash, Diaw, and I bet even Hill, will get contained regarding their effectiveness again like in the lost series last season. And we don't have the savior Amare to bait us out in those situation. Actually, without presence of Amare, it'd be even easier to contain the others. Look at Game 5 in that series, if hypothetically we'd have had Amare instead of Marion for the last 3 min. we might have pulled that one out like we did game 4.

As to the main weakness of Amare, defense, his attention and positioning has improved a lot which you can observe in the couple of games and times when he seemed to be not bothered by his fitness problem. So, I'm hopeful that he will become much better once he gets his health back.

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Not in a million years.

 

[mojorizen7]

Not in a million years.

When did you graduate Tempe High?
I'm an alum circa '83-'87

As for this trade, some solid counter-points have been brought up. That being said....i'd still do it.
If there was a way to move Shawn instead of Amare for Camby, that'd obviously be a better scenario but the mindset of this organization dating back to the mid-'80's to date has been mis-placed in terms of too much emphasis on offense.
This isn't all D'Antoni's doing. He was the perfect fit here.

Sooner or later we have to make a splash in the free-agency market/draft & spend some $dollars$ on a proven defensive difference maker. It's not sexy,it won't sell pool products,it won't be given a catchy nickname,it won't bring in more luxury boxes, it won't put more butts in the seats,it won't have it's own Nike commercial, but IMO it'll bring us a "legitamit" shot during the post-season.
Yeah i'm ranting again.....sorry.