Market may not be so fertile for Suns’ Johnson

[azdad1978]

By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
July 3, 2005

Talks between the Suns and Joe Johnson are continuing, though no agreement appears imminent, according to those familiar with the talks.

There had been talk of a dramatic meeting in which club officials would fly to meet Johnson out of state, as was the case for Steve Nash last year.

But that didn’t materialize, as Johnson’s representatives want to play the field in determining how many offers they can generate.

At the same time, teams with salary-cap room may be balking at going immediately after Johnson, who is a restricted free agent.

They appear to be concentrating on other top-flight shooting guards such as Ray Allen and Michael Redd, who are unrestricted.

The Suns have made it known they likely will match any offer for Johnson. So a team that signs Johnson to an offer sheet will have its money tied up during the July free agent bargaining period with poor prospects for having anything to show for their offer.

"If the roles were reversed, I wouldn’t do it," Suns chairman Jerry Colangelo said Saturday. "If you tie yourselves up for a month, you’ll lose out."

Overall, "Nothing has changed in regard to our commitment to re -sign Joe Johnson.

"We’ve said we’re committed to re-signing him. And that’s the way it is."

A call to Johnson was not immediately returned.

The Suns also are talking to Amaré Stoudemire, who is thought likely to sign a five-year contract extension worth nearly $70 million.

The club scored the NBA’s first free agent hit of the summer Friday, agreeing to terms with Raja Bell, a defensive-oriented off guard.

The Suns used $4.25 million of their $5-million mid-level exception to the salary cap to sign Bell. The deal comes out to nearly $25 million over five years.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=44050

 

[devilalum]

By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
July 3, 2005

The Suns used $4.25 million of their $5-million mid-level exception to the salary cap to sign Bell. The deal comes out to nearly $25 million over five years.

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=44050

There you go. That should put to rest any delusions we all had about the SUns signing a LLE.

Now we just have to hope somebody good rolls in and wants to play for the min on team that has a chance to win it all.

 

[George O'Brien]

There you go. That should put to rest any delusions we all had about the SUns signing a LLE.

Now we just have to hope somebody good rolls in and wants to play for the min on team that has a chance to win it all.

Not sure I get your point. The remainder money was almost certainly going to be less than the LLE of $1.7 million or so. This will be enough to get a backup type big man, but enough to get someone who has starter potential.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Couldn't it be a mistake for Johnson's agent to say he wants to hold off signing. I think if we wanted to we could probably pay JJ much less than he's worth just because most teams don't want to tie themselves up by waiting to see what JJ does...

 

[devilalum]

Couldn't it be a mistake for Johnson's agent to say he wants to hold off signing. I think if we wanted to we could probably pay JJ much less than he's worth just because most teams don't want to tie themselves up by waiting to see what JJ does...

If the Suns get cute and try to rip him off he could sign a one year deal and become unrestricted next summer.

 

[devilalum]

Not sure I get your point. The remainder money was almost certainly going to be less than the LLE of $1.7 million or so. This will be enough to get a backup type big man, but enough to get someone who has starter potential.

Some people were specualting that there might be $2 mil. or so left to sign another guy. I don't have a problem with the Suns giving Bell the MLE. He's the guy they wanted, I trust that.

The Suns are now able to trade away a future draft pick. I bet they take advantage of this fact before the season begins.

Voskuhl and a future #1 for ?

 

[nothin' but net]

Market may not be so fertile for Suns’ Johnson



Sorry for reverting back to Junior High...

 

[George O'Brien]

Some people were specualting that there might be $2 mil. or so left to sign another guy. I don't have a problem with the Suns giving Bell the MLE. He's the guy they wanted, I trust that.

The Suns are now able to trade away a future draft pick. I bet they take advantage of this fact before the season begins.

Voskuhl and a future #1 for ?

I never interpreted "most of the MLE" to be under $3 million, even though technically it would be.

In any case, if the player is available for $2.5 million, chances are the LLE would be enough if the player sees a chance to win a ring. If he isn't, then he's probably not a fit anyway.

 

[TopGamer]

That sucks for Johnson. THe Suns are scaring away potential bidders. But I do believe he will still get offers. I call the Suns bluff. I don't think they'll match ANY offer. Do they really want the salary cap completely consumed by four starters?

 

[JCSunsfan]

That sucks for Johnson. THe Suns are scaring away potential bidders. But I do believe he will still get offers. I call the Suns bluff. I don't think they'll match ANY offer. Do they really want the salary cap completely consumed by four starters?

That's the way the game works. That's why it is restricted free agency. And I believe the Suns when they say they will match any offer.

 

[TopGamer]

That's the way the game works. That's why it is restricted free agency. And I believe the Suns when they say they will match any offer.

If they do someone won't stay for the duration of their contract. If we don't make it to the finals at least or even win a championship in the next couple years say bye bye to Marion or Johnson. By 2007 I don't expect both to be here.

 

[George O'Brien]

-

"The Cavaliers are worried about getting bogged down trying to sign Joe Johnson, a restricted free agent. No contracts can be officially signed until July 22, and then the Phoenix Suns could wait 15 days to match. By then, all the unrestricted free agents could be signed -- Allen, Redd, Hughes -- and the Cavaliers could end up with no one. Johnson is now considered a last resort, assuming they don't land one of the Big Three free agents." Akron Beacon Journal

It's only 7, but since the deadline for signing has been extended to the 22nd, it has the same effect.

JJ stated that business is business. There has never been any doubt that the Suns would do everything in their power to keep him. My guess is that he may have been misled by the way the Suns picked up Richardson, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

Most restricted free agent offers get matched. Generally teams only go after guys where they think the old team might not match. This is why such a large number of RFA's that move tend to be former Clippers because Sterling often refuses to pay what it take to keep his guys. Last year only three RFA's moved: Richardson, Martin, and Skinner. Richardson played for the Clippers and Martin for a Nets team that was well known to be trying to cut payroll. Skinner was the odd guy in that deal, but even at that point the Bucks were preparing for this summer when they would need all the cap space they could get to re-sign Redd. All the other RFA's were either matched, signed, or simply did a one year like Swift.

The logic of free agency is that unrestricted free agents get taken before RFA's for any give position. (The old signing limits on second round picks altered that, but that is going away). In any case, making an offer to an RFA means not being able to negotiate with someone else until the deal is either matched or not.

JJ is not going to get any offers until Redd, Allen, Huges, and probably Simmons are off the board. His dilemna is that the longer the process goes on, the less leverage he has if he doesn't get an offer.

 

[TopGamer]

-

It's only 7, but since the deadline for signing has been extended to the 22nd, it has the same effect.

JJ stated that business is business. There has never been any doubt that the Suns would do everything in their power to keep him. My guess is that he may have been misled by the way the Suns picked up Richardson, but that is the exception rather than the rule.

Most restricted free agent offers get matched. Generally teams only go after guys where they think the old team might not match. This is why such a large number of RFA's that move tend to be former Clippers because Sterling often refuses to pay what it take to keep his guys. Last year only three RFA's moved: Richardson, Martin, and Skinner. Richardson played for the Clippers and Martin for a Nets team that was well known to be trying to cut payroll. Skinner was the odd guy in that deal, but even at that point the Bucks were preparing for this summer when they would need all the cap space they could get to re-sign Redd. All the other RFA's were either matched, signed, or simply did a one year like Swift.

The logic of free agency is that unrestricted free agents get taken before RFA's for any give position. (The old signing limits on second round picks altered that, but that is going away). In any case, making an offer to an RFA means not being able to negotiate with someone else until the deal is either matched or not.

JJ is not going to get any offers until Redd, Allen, Huges, and probably Simmons are off the board. His dilemna is that the longer the process goes on, the less leverage he has if he doesn't get an offer.

Good post George. I'm assuming JJ will still get offers, but in the case it doesn't, do you think the Suns will sign him to the deal they offered initially that JJ rejected? If teams are afraid to give him offers, like you said he will have no leverage and the Suns can sign him to a deal that works for them. I don't think there will be any negotiations.

 

[George O'Brien]

Good post George. I'm assuming JJ will still get offers, but in the case it doesn't, do you think the Suns will sign him to the deal they offered initially that JJ rejected? If teams are afraid to give him offers, like you said he will have no leverage and the Suns can sign him to a deal that works for them. I don't think there will be any negotiations.

I'd be surprised if the Suns aren't offering a deal for about $60 million over 6 years. At this point, sticking to a $50 million offer risks having this thing drag on and eventually a team like NO or Atlanta could really muck up the works (since they are sure to bomb chasing the top players).

One minor factor is that a year ago, signing JJ for more than Q would seem like a slap in the face of Q since most people rated them to be pretty close. Now, Q is gone and so is his ego.

 

[Goldfield]

JJ is gunna get paid. He is a last resort for teams because of the rfa part. But he will be just fine. If you think the Suns are gunna get a "good" deal you wrong. Butr if were not paying a Max deal then I will be happy.


GIT ~R~ DUN

 

[cly2tw]

I'd be surprised if the Suns aren't offering a deal for about $60 million over 6 years. At this point, sticking to a $50 million offer risks having this thing drag on and eventually a team like NO or Atlanta could really muck up the works (since they are sure to bomb chasing the top players).

One minor factor is that a year ago, signing JJ for more than Q would seem like a slap in the face of Q since most people rated them to be pretty close. Now, Q is gone and so is his ego.

I don't know whether Q himself would have had any problem, but the team should be indeed concerned about it so that they shouldn't give in on JJ's demand last season. Now, there is the same problem with Nash, though Nash personally may not have a problem with Joe paid more than him. Still, Joe will never have the impact Nash had last season, on any team. If we match an offer sheet, it's fine but our offer shall not go beyond what Nash is paid, I think.

 

[Joe Mama]

JJ is gunna get paid. He is a last resort for teams because of the rfa part. But he will be just fine. If you think the Suns are gunna get a "good" deal you wrong. Butr if were not paying a Max deal then I will be happy.


GIT ~R~ DUN

I agree. If he doesn't get the maximum it's going to be very, very close to it.

Joe Mama

 

[playstation]

max deals will start at about $12.5 if the cap is about $49.5M, which chad ford said it was likely to be.

max another team offers is 5 years, about $70M. that's a lot of change for jj. 6 years, $60M starts at $8M. that's a lot more palatable. i think the suns offer to jj will be in the 6 years, $68M range. The only way he gets better is if someone offers the max, but other than that, they're golden with him.

 

[Goldfield]

max deals will start at about $12.5 if the cap is about $49.5M, which chad ford said it was likely to be.

max another team offers is 5 years, about $70M. that's a lot of change for jj. 6 years, $60M starts at $8M. that's a lot more palatable. i think the suns offer to jj will be in the 6 years, $68M range. The only way he gets better is if someone offers the max, but other than that, they're golden with him.

that is a good point. The Suns can save some cash by offering afew more mill than anyone else can offer. But it will still be lower than what we "could" max him out at.

 

[RJ May]

I don't know whether Q himself would have had any problem, but the team should be indeed concerned about it so that they shouldn't give in on JJ's demand last season. Now, there is the same problem with Nash, though Nash personally may not have a problem with Joe paid more than him. Still, Joe will never have the impact Nash had last season, on any team. If we match an offer sheet, it's fine but our offer shall not go beyond what Nash is paid, I think.

There's very few who impact the game like Nash. Amare didn't have the same impact as Nash but we all know he as well as JJ deserves more money because they are the suns future.

 

[F-Dog]

I believe that the best that Joe Johnson can do (if he doesn't get an attractive offer this year, by the Suns or another team) is $73m over six years. That's $3m for the qualifying offer for next year, plus $70m over five years as a UFA.

I don't think the Suns are going to do much better than that, even if they've succeeded in chasing away Joe's other suitors. Maybe he would accept $70m over six years, just for the security.