Mel kiper is still an idiot

Joined
Sep 26, 2002
Posts
149
Reaction score
0
Location
KC MO
Either that or he thinks that the Cardinals are named Mikey. (You know - give it to Mikey. He will aeat anything.) In his latest draft he has the Cardinals taking the 5th rated CB in the draft in the 2nd round (because they need defensive backfield help). And then 4 picks later he has the Vikings selecting the 4th rated corner.??????????
 

Ed B

The Matt Joyce of Posting
BANNED BY MODERATORS
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
1,978
Reaction score
4
Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
unfortunately, he's probably right (see Michael Stone)

Even more unfortunately, Stone was the top "rated" corner on the board when we picked him!


This has been your "useless draft history fact" for the day, courtesy of my pile of old draft guides.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
64,145
Reaction score
59,151
Location
SoCal
my god, is that true? even at the time i thought he was a tremendous reach, was that not accurate (from a predraft vantage point, not with 20-20 hindsight)?
 

Russ Smith

The Original Whizzinator
Supporting Member
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
88,238
Reaction score
39,873
Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
my god, is that true? even at the time i thought he was a tremendous reach, was that not accurate (from a predraft vantage point, not with 20-20 hindsight)?

The problem for me was not taking him over another CB it was taking him over Shaun Rogers even with Rogers' injury at the time.
 

HoodieBets

Formerly azcardsfan1616
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
5,748
Reaction score
1,055
Location
Rhode Island
Originally posted by Ed B
Even more unfortunately, Stone was the top "rated" corner on the board when we picked him!


This has been your "useless draft history fact" for the day, courtesy of my pile of old draft guides.

Who was next?
 

red desert

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Posts
6,221
Reaction score
0
Location
A.B.Q. in da house
Originally posted by Russ Smith
The problem for me was not taking him over another CB it was taking him over Shaun Rogers even with Rogers' injury at the time.

I was so pisst we didn't take Rogers.
 

Northern Card

All Star
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Posts
779
Reaction score
0
Location
Ottawa, ON - Canada
Let's see: We had just traded A. Wiiliams to the Rams, and were looking for the corner of the future, and we had just gone through the injury episodes with Swann and Wadsworth.

One can only imagine the outcry on this and other boards if we had picked a guy wearing a cast during the pre-draft evaluations...
 

SECTION 11

vibraslap
Joined
Oct 11, 2002
Posts
16,388
Reaction score
4,868
Location
Between the Pipes
Originally posted by Northern Card
Let's see: We had just traded A. Wiiliams to the Rams, and were looking for the corner of the future, and we had just gone through the injury episodes with Swann and Wadsworth.

One can only imagine the outcry on this and other boards if we had picked a guy wearing a cast during the pre-draft evaluations...


That's just an outstanding point.

:thumbup:
 

Stout

Hold onto the ball, Murray!
Joined
Dec 30, 2002
Posts
40,145
Reaction score
24,635
Location
Pittsburgh, PA--Enemy territory!
Yeah, I can remember everyone being so glad we didn't take Rogers because of the injury risk. Now everyone's saying we should have taken him. Hindsight's 20-20. Of course, I'm kicking myself over my draft-day opinion, but oh well.
 

JeffGollin

ASFN Icon
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
20,472
Reaction score
3,056
Location
Holmdel, NJ
In that draft, what drove me nuts was that the Cards apparently had targeted certain players (like VDB and Stone) and made certain they got them BY DRAFTING THEM ONE ROUND EARLIER THAN THEIR VALUE.

As a result, they got the guys they wanted, but basically wasted a legitimate 2nd round pick by drafting someone in the second round who was valued as a 3rd rounder and kept repeating the cycle all the way through Round 7.

(Note - That wasted 2nd rounder could have been Rogers. But in all fairness, he had injury issues and was considered a risk.
 

BACH

Superbowl, Homeboy!
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
6,125
Reaction score
1,912
Location
Expat in Kuala Lumpur
Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
Who was next?

Sitting here with Sporting News Draft guide for 2001. They have Stone as a 6th round pick, because he's so raw, but stating that he could be the steal of the draft if a team is willing to let him learn for a couple of seasons.

Anyway, to answer your question. Stone went at #54. The top rated corner available (according to the War Room) at #54 was William Peterson (Giants). Tay Cody (Chargers) and Andre Dyson (Titans) were also there.
 

Cbus cardsfan

Back to Back ASFN FFL Champion
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
21,516
Reaction score
7,791
The Lions weren't happy with Rogers last year because he was overweight.And i think i read that he isn't working out with the team this off season so they are concerned again.That is alot of stress on his foot/ankle.So he may not turn out to be the great pick he looked like in year 1.I also wanted him and he has already been more productive than Stone.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
64,145
Reaction score
59,151
Location
SoCal
stating the obvious but - dyson or peterson would look a lot better on our roster than stone right now . . .
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,669
Reaction score
30,464
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Originally posted by PHXSPORTS4LIFE
stating the obvious but - dyson or peterson would look a lot better on our roster than stone right now . . .

Or Willie Peterson! That guy's an absolute friggin' stud in NY!
 

HoodieBets

Formerly azcardsfan1616
Joined
May 13, 2002
Posts
5,748
Reaction score
1,055
Location
Rhode Island
Originally posted by kerouac9
Or Willie Peterson! That guy's an absolute friggin' stud in NY!

To bad the guy has a temper and cost the Giants the game in the playoffs last year. Besides that he is a really good player.
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,669
Reaction score
30,464
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Originally posted by azcardsfan1616
To bad the guy has a temper and cost the Giants the game in the playoffs last year. Besides that he is a really good player.

Yeah, but with our no-passion coaching staff, we'd drill that right out of him. Can you imaging Willie throwing that fit with "Mean" Joe "Manjelly" Greene looking at him silently and impassively?
 

Northern Card

All Star
Joined
Mar 5, 2003
Posts
779
Reaction score
0
Location
Ottawa, ON - Canada
Seem to remember Greene losing it with a groundskeeper a few years back.. but of course feel free to call him "manjelly" to his face when you get an opportunity. Being from Mesa you won't have far to go...:wave:
 

kerouac9

Klowned by Keim
Joined
Feb 14, 2003
Posts
38,669
Reaction score
30,464
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Originally posted by Northern Card
Seem to remember Greene losing it with a groundskeeper a few years back.. but of course feel free to call him "manjelly" to his face when you get an opportunity. Being from Mesa you won't have far to go...:wave:

I'm sure the groundskeeper had it coming.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

I'm better than Mulli!
Joined
Sep 16, 2002
Posts
64,145
Reaction score
59,151
Location
SoCal
serves the groundskeeper right for smearing hisself with jelly in the presence of a noted manjelly-connoiseur mean joe!
 

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
12,405
Reaction score
27,202
Location
Orlando, FL
Actually I was chairing the chat room on that draft day and I plus a number of the 30 or so fans we had online were pleading for Rogers. As I posted in my pre-draft analysis, he had alreadly had a thorough physical and was given a complete bill of health. It was the injury that caused him to fall, because that type of injury can be nagging. Still, he was easily the best choice.

Stone was the highest rated corner when he was chosen. His situation is bizzarre. He should good man cover skills in college, but was raw and the belief was he lacked solid coaching. Marmie figured to remedy that and I rated him a solid choice. Just goes to show there are no sure things in drafting.

It is worth noting tha while Stone was highest rated CB, he was not nearly the highest rated player. In that sense he was a reach, because the Cards drafted for need.

Here's the rating from my review,

"Shaun Rogers 6'4" 320 5.3

Hands down he is the best defensive tackle available, except for injury issues. In fact, those issues (foot injury) prevented him from working out at the combine. He is still believed to recovering sufficiently to workout prior to the draft, though it is hard to imagine he would be in peak condition. If not he may drop. Were he to be available by some miracle when the Cards' second turn comes around, don't stand between the Cards' table and the podium. You will be trampled. Forget the nonsense you read about overweight. He is not fat. He is precisely the type of anchor tackle the Cards are seeking. He is strong, physically massive and cannot be moved by a single blocker. He has the best leg strength among the top contenders and he plays very low to the ground, so his leverage position is outstanding. This guy goes in only one direction: forward. He has decent foot speed and quickness, but he is not likely to develop into a great pass rusher. His first step, though adequate, is not going to "out-quick" anybody. He has not developed any true technique as a pass rusher and I suspect he is unlikely to do so. That said, he will clog the middle like a bog. He is such a powerful force in the middle that even a lineman and a fullback trying to open a hole through him are unlikely to get a clean shot at a linebacker. With the Cards mobile linebackers, the defense would finally be able to plug the holes in the middle. Forget running draws near this guy, he stays home or just comes at you. He has a nose for the ball. The are many negative comments about his work ethic. It is important to remember that these players are often still maturing. Everyone with whom I have checked tells me he is a good guy. Hopefully, he will play every down, but even if not, he is still an awesome presence who will rise to the occasion. For the Cards, the problem is that with the injury issues he would be hard to justify at the two slot. If they trade down or if he is there in round two, color him red."

I posted the medical updates on the message board. Looking back, Seymour turned out to be the best player, but there is little room for argument that Rogers was a better pick than Stone.
 

red desert

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Posts
6,221
Reaction score
0
Location
A.B.Q. in da house
Originally posted by Harry
Actually I was chairing the chat room on that draft day and I plus a number of the 30 or so fans we had online were pleading for Rogers. As I posted in my pre-draft analysis, he had alreadly had a thorough physical and was given a complete bill of health. It was the injury that caused him to fall, because that type of injury can be nagging. Still, he was easily the best choice.

Stone was the highest rated corner when he was chosen. His situation is bizzarre. He should good man cover skills in college, but was raw and the belief was he lacked solid coaching. Marmie figured to remedy that and I rated him a solid choice. Just goes to show there are no sure things in drafting.

It is worth noting tha while Stone was highest rated CB, he was not nearly the highest rated player. In that sense he was a reach, because the Cards drafted for need.

Here's the rating from my review,

"Shaun Rogers 6'4" 320 5.3

Hands down he is the best defensive tackle available, except for injury issues. In fact, those issues (foot injury) prevented him from working out at the combine. He is still believed to recovering sufficiently to workout prior to the draft, though it is hard to imagine he would be in peak condition. If not he may drop. Were he to be available by some miracle when the Cards' second turn comes around, don't stand between the Cards' table and the podium. You will be trampled. Forget the nonsense you read about overweight. He is not fat. He is precisely the type of anchor tackle the Cards are seeking. He is strong, physically massive and cannot be moved by a single blocker. He has the best leg strength among the top contenders and he plays very low to the ground, so his leverage position is outstanding. This guy goes in only one direction: forward. He has decent foot speed and quickness, but he is not likely to develop into a great pass rusher. His first step, though adequate, is not going to "out-quick" anybody. He has not developed any true technique as a pass rusher and I suspect he is unlikely to do so. That said, he will clog the middle like a bog. He is such a powerful force in the middle that even a lineman and a fullback trying to open a hole through him are unlikely to get a clean shot at a linebacker. With the Cards mobile linebackers, the defense would finally be able to plug the holes in the middle. Forget running draws near this guy, he stays home or just comes at you. He has a nose for the ball. The are many negative comments about his work ethic. It is important to remember that these players are often still maturing. Everyone with whom I have checked tells me he is a good guy. Hopefully, he will play every down, but even if not, he is still an awesome presence who will rise to the occasion. For the Cards, the problem is that with the injury issues he would be hard to justify at the two slot. If they trade down or if he is there in round two, color him red."

I posted the medical updates on the message board. Looking back, Seymour turned out to be the best player, but there is little room for argument that Rogers was a better pick than Stone.

Just a thought . . .

Being one of the folks that wanted Rogers to get drafted, I always wondered if the Cards sought out Leonard Davis' opinion on him. And if so, given that we didn't take him, if his take on Rogers was a negative one.
 

Harry

ASFN Consultant and Senior Writer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Posts
12,405
Reaction score
27,202
Location
Orlando, FL
Davis was okay on Rogers, but did not campaign for him. Hard to read what that meant.
 

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
556,376
Posts
5,435,447
Members
6,329
Latest member
cardinals2025
Top