MJ - 8/25/2006 - AM - Cards Notes

[joeshmo]

From Mike Jurecki this morning on the radio.

1. Elton Brown - He might be on the bubble. Coaches havent been all that impressed with him so far. Came in last year with a really bad body, didnt work all that hard last offseason. Tried to make him OT this year then made him an OG again. Trying to find a spot for him. Very unmotivated and not sure if he actually wants to play football, which along with his body was the main reason he fell so far in the draft last year.

2. OL - Most likely we will keep only 9 OL, just like every other year Denny has been here. So its 8 OL + Ross. With Elton Brown being on the bubble to make that 8. Davis, Wells, M. Brown, Step, Leckey, Gorin, Ross, Lutui, Bridges.

3. Edge will only play no more then 2 series tonight, might also only play fitz and boldin a max of 3 series. O and D as a whole will take 1-2 series into the 3rd quarter.

4. Gorin will play tonight and get a lot of time.

5. LB depth chart is as follows:

WLB - Huff - Darling
MLB - Hayes - Brown
SLB - Pace - Blackstock

We most likely will keep Johnson and Dansby on depth chart as well keeping a total of 8 LB's. Mitchell will have a hard time making this team, and not being able to play tonight is not a good sign for him.

6. We might only keep 5 WR's. Boldin, Fitz, Johnson, Walters, McCoy. They will try to put Watkins on the PS

Thats all I got, just some interesting tidbits.

 

[RedForeman]

Shame about Elton Brown. That news is definitely a surprise to me and I think most of us expected him to turn the corner this year. I guess this explains why we haven't heard much about him during camp/preseason.

Would this be Denny's 1st admitted draft bust?

 

[az1965]

Regarding E Brown... that really sucks... we were hoping a solid longterm G in him.

That's a solid 5 deep WR cast!

 

[General Chaos]

I would be suprised if Hayes got hurt and Darling sat on the sideline while Brown came in.

 

[CardLogic]

That's too bad re: Elton Brown. Some guys just don't have what it takes to step to that next level; namely drive+attitude. A guy like E.B. has probably made it this far on natural physical abilities, without having to put a whole lot of effort into it.

As I say, some guys just can't make that transition of having to WORK when it has come so easy all their playing days to this point. But at the NFL level everyone has talent and natural abilties! The guys that make it are the ones which are willing to put in the work...

Damn shame, because I think this kid, Elton Brown, could be something special; if he only had the heart.

 

[Kel Varnsen]

I would be suprised if Hayes got hurt and Darling sat on the sideline while Brown came in.

Yeah. I had to look up who Brown even is.

 

[BigRedArk]

I don't suppose there is much logic or likelyhood that they would put Elton Brown on the Practice Squad is there?

 

[CardLogic]

I don't suppose there is much logic or likelyhood that they would put Elton Brown on the Practice Squad is there?

I don't think he would clear waivers... Somebody will take a shot on him.

 

[BigRedArk]

I don't think he would clear waivers... Somebody will take a shot on him.

Oh yeah players have to clear waivers before they can be designated PS. I forgot. Yeah he probably wouldn't clear.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Oh yeah players have to clear waivers before they can be designated PS. I forgot. Yeah he probably wouldn't clear.

If someone claims him they have to keep him on their 53 man roster. So there's a very good chance he would clear waivers.

 

[BACH]

I don't suppose there is much logic or likelyhood that they would put Elton Brown on the Practice Squad is there?

Nope.

More likely, that they will take a long talk with Elton. Find out if he wants this. If he does, then it's very likely that he mysteriously gets injured and spends the season on IR. That goes for Mitchell as well.

 

[CardLogic]

If someone claims him they have to keep him on their 53 man roster. So there's a very good chance he would clear waivers.

Is that right? I know that if you claim a player from another team's PS then they must be placed on the 53 man roster.

Waivers?

Someone will answer soon enough...

 

[BACH]

Is that right? I know that if you claim a player from another team's PS then they must be placed on the 53 man roster.

Waivers?

Someone will answer soon enough...

Yes, its correct. If you want another player waived by another team, then you have to put him on the active roster. Other teams can't add "our" player to their PS while on waivers.

The Jags signed LB Gilbert to their active roster when we cut him to put him on the PS. I believe he was the last of "our" players that another team grabed before we were able to sign him to the PS. He still is on the Jags team as a back-up MLB BTW.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

Would this be Denny's 1st admitted draft bust?

Well, considering he was drafted in the 4th round, he''s not a draft bust, per se, because he was a mid-round pick with first round potential. Sure, we could have gotten a productive player, even a starter, at that position, but it's not like we blew a 1st or 2nd on him. Wasted pick? Sure. Bust? Not quite....

 

[CardinalChris]

I still think it is a little early to cut Brown. Waive him and try to get him on the PS if he is that bad, but keeping Bridges, who has hit his ceiling over a guy like Brown would be a mistake.

 

[Duckjake]

That's too bad re: Elton Brown. Some guys just don't have what it takes to step to that next level; namely drive+attitude. A guy like E.B. has probably made it this far on natural physical abilities, without having to put a whole lot of effort into it.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the Virginia program?

 

[Mitch]

Man, don't like what MJ said about Elton Brown. The funny thing is...if you go back and watch the Steeler game, he played pretty well and got down field better than just about any o-lineman in the game.

The bad body thing is a little curious in the sense that most NFL o-linemen have the biggest beer bellies in the league...not saying that Brown isn't at fault, per se, but...still.

The good news, perhaps, is that if he goes unclaimed, the Cardinals could still sign him to the PS. There's probably a good chance Brown won't be claimed, seeing as teams regard the Cardinals as having poor personnel on the o-line...and if Brown couldn't cut it here, why would he anywhere else?

As for Lance Mitchell, he has been sidelined with a bad ankle...however, his LB coach Frank Bush was talking him up just two weeks ago, lauding his improvement. Let's hope that's the case and the Cardinals find a way to keep him either on the 53 man, the PS or the IR.

Some of you might say...heck with them...and that's a reasonable reaction. However...there was a time when many of us started thinking heck with Thomas Jones...remember his first two years in the league? And he was a first round pick, no less.

Some players wake up and smell the coffee...and yet, most never do...but, it's worth it to hang in there for the third year with some players...look at Calvin Pace, for example...now he's a starter and an invaluable asset.

 

[ThunderCard]

That is to bad about Brown. I was wondering why we were not seeing enough of him....

If this comes down to motivation I agree with the previous poster some people have it and some people do not. Brown needs to get his ass in gear and Denny needs to push him in the right direction. I thought last year was not all bad by Brown, however this year he looks slower and more out of shape then 05

 

[joeshmo]

The Jags signed LB Gilbert to their active roster when we cut him to put him on the PS. I believe he was the last of "our" players that another team grabed before we were able to sign him to the PS. He still is on the Jags team as a back-up MLB BTW.

Gilbert was on our PS when the Jags took him, which is why that "on the active roster" rule had to be done with him.

http://goduquesne.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/090203aaa.html

But for players that are waived, they are free game for teams that put in a waiver claim, no matter what, they can cut him them very next day.

 

[joeshmo]

Is that right? I know that if you claim a player from another team's PS then they must be placed on the 53 man roster.

Waivers?

It is correct. Grabbing a player off of a PS and the waiver system have 2 seperate rules.

You can cut a player you just put a wavier claim on the very next day.

Grabbing a player off you PS is grabbing a player on you team under contract, but if a player can play for another team they dont want to hinder that hence the must be on the active roster rule, but they also want the original team with the rights to that player to have some rights as well, which is why they make it hard for other teams to sign your PS players with the same rule.

But grabbing a player off of waivers means you are grabbing a cut player that the original team no longer has any rights to. No rights to the player means no rules that help the original team keep a player they just cut. Waived players are cut players its just taht the waived tag gets put on players with few year experiance and gets put into a waiver system. But in the end a waived player is a cut player and all rights to said player is cut off.

 

[JeffGollin]

I still think it is a little early to cut Brown. Waive him and try to get him on the PS.

I agree. There's no reason to cut him early when there are far more than 6 - 7 players who could qualify for the Turk's first round of cuts.

Very occasionally, I've seen him pull on sweeps and devestate the defender. That's something to build on. I'd rather DG and Loney give him one of those "your ship is sinking fast/last chance" heart-to-hearts and hold out the option of keeping or cutting him when the final round of cuts come up.

 

[joeshmo]

The bad body thing is a little curious in the sense that most NFL o-linemen have the biggest beer bellies in the league...not saying that Brown isn't at fault, per se, but...still.

The bad body thing came from last offseason. It is the reason Brown left the senior bowl early and the combine early, and didnt have much of a personal workout. Its one of the biggest reasons why he fell so far in the draft, that and his commitment. They may all look the same with beer bellies but you can tell who is in shape and who isnt. Again the bad body thing comes from the context of last years offseason.

The good news, perhaps, is that if he goes unclaimed, the Cardinals could still sign him to the PS. There's probably a good chance Brown won't be claimed, seeing as teams regard the Cardinals as having poor personnel on the o-line...and if Brown couldn't cut it here, why would he anywhere else?

That is a very good point.

As for Lance Mitchell, he has been sidelined with a bad ankle...however, his LB coach Frank Bush was talking him up just two weeks ago, lauding his improvement.

But would you agree that there is a difference between lauding a practice performance and lauding a on the field performance. Of which his on the field performance wasnt something to point out or just not on the field. It is also a numbers game really. Where does he fit? Brown is a vet with starting experiance, I think he is another Darling type player, nothing super but a guy you like to have none the less, a steady performer type you can count on not to suck.

Do you think Mitchell is good enough to bust into the 6 LB depth chart I posted? And then you have to include Dansby. So the question is, do you want the potential of Johnson or Mitchell? I think I would have to go with Johnson who has more physical ability and tools to work with.

Just like Brown, Maybe he needs another year, and maybe he can be placed on the PS???????

Some players wake up and smell the coffee...and yet, most never do...but, it's worth it to hang in there for the third year with some players...look at Calvin Pace, for example...now he's a starter and an invaluable asset.

I agree to a point. But at what cost do you keep that player who hasnt gotten IT yet? You keep them and another proven player who can help you this year is lost, or you keep them and the proven player and another positional depth chart gets skewed. For example, do you keep 9 LB's at the sake of having fewer players at another Position, or do you cut a steady Vet the likes of Darling or Brown. Hard questions no doubt.

 

[joeshmo]

I agree. There's no reason to cut him early when there are far more than 6 - 7 players who could qualify for the Turk's first round of cuts.

Very occasionally, I've seen him pull on sweeps and devestate the defender. That's something to build on. I'd rather DG and Loney give him one of those "your ship is sinking fast/last chance" heart-to-hearts and hold out the option of keeping or cutting him when the final round of cuts come up.

Just a side note on my original post and I may not have been clear. Jurecki wasnt talking about Brown or Mitchell getting cut this round of cuts. Just that they are bubble players for the final cut.

 

[BACH]

Gilbert was on our PS when the Jags took him, which is why that "on the active roster" rule had to be done with him.

http://goduquesne.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/090203aaa.html

But for players that are waived, they are free game for teams that put in a waiver claim, no matter what, they can cut him them very next day.

Okay, my mistake

 

[Mitch]

Excellent points, Joe...such as comparing Mark Brown to James Darling...that's right on the money, IMO.

If the Cards keep only 9 o-linemen including Ross, as MJ predicts, it would come down to choosing one of the following three: G Elton Brown, G/T Jeremy Bridges or T Fred Wakefield...this is where Brown's failure to catch on at RT may have hurt him in that Jeremy Bridges can play RT and RG...although, and here's the catch, Elton Brown, IMO, has much more upside at RG than Jeremy Bridges. But...with Ross out for a while, the team will need to hang on to Bridges because he can play tackle.

You make a good point too to suggest that Lance Mitchell could have a tough time ever moving up on the LB depth chart...Brandon Johnson is too gifted athletically to ignore...and when Dansby returns the depth chart gets even deeper with Pace, Blackstock, Darling and Johnson in the wings...it would seem that Mitchell would stand a better chance of playing for a 3-4 team, seeing as he's not stout enough to be a Mike or even a SLB...and is probably not edge quick enough to start at WLB.