Money and Kobe

[George O'Brien]

If Bryant leaves the Lakers, it will be for a pay cut. Same as with Kidd and the Nets last summer, Webber and the Kings three (?) summers ago, or Marbury in either 2004 or 2005 had he stayed with the Suns. Only the player's original team can sign him to a new contract worth more than the regular max.

There is big difference between these situations and this one. Kobe is under contract with the Lakers for $14,6 for next year. He can get out of that contract, but if he is willing to wait a year for free agency he is certain to get that amount.

The other free agents described were pure free agents. They might be taking a cut from what they were previously getting, but not from what they were guarenteed to get. So maybe I'm wrong and Kobe will take a real pay cut in order to play for his hero this year. But I doubt it.

 

[elindholm]

There is big difference between these situations and this one. Kobe is under contract with the Lakers for $14,6 for next year. He can get out of that contract, but if he is willing to wait a year for free agency he is certain to get that amount.

The other free agents described were pure free agents.

Huh? All of this has to do with the likelihood of Bryant leaving the Lakers -- for a pay cut -- after this season. It has nothing to do with whether he'd have to take a pay cut in order to leave, which you now seem to be acknowledging that he would.

I've already said that I think it's unlikely Bryant will leave the Lakers. However, what we've discussed previously is whether he will cripple the Suns by signing an "overmax" contract with them. He won't, because he can't. Whether he'll be willing to play for the Suns for less money is a different question entirely, and I agree with you that I don't think he will be.

Nonetheless, I stand by my original statement that, if Bryant leaves the Lakers, it will be for a pay cut.

They might be taking a cut from what they were previously getting, but not from what they were guarenteed to get.

This is barely a distinction. Webber and Kidd knew completely well that their current clubs would offer them the largest contract they could. They were "guaranteed" to get that money as soon as they walked into the GM's office and said, "I'm prepared to re-sign."

 

[George O'Brien]

Originally posted by elindholm
There is big difference between these situations and this one. Kobe is under contract with the Lakers for $14,6 for next year. He can get out of that contract, but if he is willing to wait a year for free agency he is certain to get that amount.

The other free agents described were pure free agents.

Huh? All of this has to do with the likelihood of Bryant leaving the Lakers -- for a pay cut -- after this season. It has nothing to do with whether he'd have to take a pay cut in order to leave, which you now seem to be acknowledging that he would.

I've already said that I think it's unlikely Bryant will leave the Lakers. However, what we've discussed previously is whether he will cripple the Suns by signing an "overmax" contract with them. He won't, because he can't. Whether he'll be willing to play for the Suns for less money is a different question entirely, and I agree with you that I don't think he will be.

Nonetheless, I stand by my original statement that, if Bryant leaves the Lakers, it will be for a pay cut.

They might be taking a cut from what they were previously getting, but not from what they were guarenteed to get.

This is barely a distinction. Webber and Kidd knew completely well that their current clubs would offer them the largest contract they could. They were "guaranteed" to get that money as soon as they walked into the GM's office and said, "I'm prepared to re-sign."

I think there is a difference, but I'll let it stand.

At this point the Suns are able to offer maybe $8 unless they cna make some moves. I can't see him coming in at much less than $11 or $12 million first year. As it currently sits, the Nuggets have only $22 million committed for next year so Kobe does not have to take a cut to make a move.

 

[Tank]

Originally posted by George O'Brien
I think there is a difference, but I'll let it stand.

At this point the Suns are able to offer maybe $8 unless they cna make some moves. I can't see him coming in at much less than $11 or $12 million first year. As it currently sits, the Nuggets have only $22 million committed for next year so Kobe does not have to take a cut to make a move.

Elindholm is right on this. If Kobe leaves the Lakers to a different team, without a sign and trade, there is only so much the team he goes to can offer him. I don't know the exact amount, but just cause the Nuggets have 20 million in cap space, doesn't mean they could offer Kobe 20 million. There is an upper limit to how much any team can offer a free agent, and unless the team is trying to resign one of their own free agents using Bird Rights, then the players previous salary has nothing to do with the size of the contract he will sign. I hope this helps some, but I think it would be better if I had the exact numbers. Something like a 75 mil over 6 years or something like that. Base contract starting at 10 mil.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Tank
Elindholm is right on this. If Kobe leaves the Lakers to a different team, without a sign and trade, there is only so much the team he goes to can offer him. I don't know the exact amount, but just cause the Nuggets have 20 million in cap space, doesn't mean they could offer Kobe 20 million. There is an upper limit to how much any team can offer a free agent, and unless the team is trying to resign one of their own free agents using Bird Rights, then the players previous salary has nothing to do with the size of the contract he will sign. I hope this helps some, but I think it would be better if I had the exact numbers. Something like a 75 mil over 6 years or something like that. Base contract starting at 10 mil.

The Denver Nuggets might have the salary space to offer as much as allowed under the CBA. However even if he is acquitted there's no way they would do it. It would be a PR disaster, not to mention you'd have to wonder if he could coexist with Carmelo Anthony.

Joe Mama

 

[capologist]

Originally posted by Tank
Elindholm is right on this. If Kobe leaves the Lakers to a different team, without a sign and trade, there is only so much the team he goes to can offer him. I don't know the exact amount, but just cause the Nuggets have 20 million in cap space, doesn't mean they could offer Kobe 20 million. There is an upper limit to how much any team can offer a free agent, and unless the team is trying to resign one of their own free agents using Bird Rights, then the players previous salary has nothing to do with the size of the contract he will sign. I hope this helps some, but I think it would be better if I had the exact numbers. Something like a 75 mil over 6 years or something like that. Base contract starting at 10 mil.

Actually, his previous salary does have something to do with it, even if he’s not re-signing with his prior team.

For a player with Kobe’s experience, the maximum starting salary is the greatest of (1) 30% of the cap; (2) 105% of his prior salary; or (3) $11M.

The current cap is just under $44M; if next year’s cap is similar, then 30% would be about $13.2M. Kobe’s current salary is $13,498,000, so 105% of that is about $14.17M. So his maximum starting salary, signing with another team, is $14.17M, unless the cap takes a big jump.

Another team can sign him to a contract for a maximum term of six seasons, with maximum annual increases of 10% of the starting salary. Thus the maximum contract is six seasons and worth a total of 1.0+1.1+1.2+1.3+1.4+1.5=7.5 times the starting salary over six seasons. So, for Kobe, that means better than $106M/6yr. He won’t go hungry.

 

[elindholm]

Hmm. Thanks for the correction, capologist.

So, George O'Brien, you are right after all. Sorry for my belligerence. Bryant is indeed eligible for a much larger salary from a hypothetical "other team" than Phoenix has any chance of being able to offer, and the number isn't going to be that much lower than what the Lakers could offer.

Of course, we agreed all along that it was unlikely Bryant would come to the Suns, but now you have given us yet one more reason.

 

[Tank]

Originally posted by capologist
Actually, his previous salary does have something to do with it, even if he’s not re-signing with his prior team.

For a player with Kobe’s experience, the maximum starting salary is the greatest of (1) 30% of the cap; (2) 105% of his prior salary; or (3) $11M.

The current cap is just under $44M; if next year’s cap is similar, then 30% would be about $13.2M. Kobe’s current salary is $13,498,000, so 105% of that is about $14.17M. So his maximum starting salary, signing with another team, is $14.17M, unless the cap takes a big jump.

Another team can sign him to a contract for a maximum term of six seasons, with maximum annual increases of 10% of the starting salary. Thus the maximum contract is six seasons and worth a total of 1.0+1.1+1.2+1.3+1.4+1.5=7.5 times the starting salary over six seasons. So, for Kobe, that means better than $106M/6yr. He won’t go hungry.

Just the person we needed to post on this

I stand corrected, and I was mistaken with my post earlier. Thanks for clearing up the confusion Cap!

 

[cly2tw]

Originally posted by elindholm
Of course, we agreed all along that it was unlikely Bryant would come to the Suns, but now you have given us yet one more reason.

Don't bet on it, since we can try to dump our current franchise (ruining) player, Marion, to be among the teams with enough cap!

 

[George O'Brien]

I can't believe you think I was right after all.

I didn't know the exact rules, but I had an intuitive feel based on looking at the Hoops Hype Salaries . The key is the rule about the growth rate. They put that in to eliminate having teams do what they used to do, sign a guy for a small amount the first year and then jump it up a lot later. To sign someone like Kobe to $8 million the first year would be a huge cut in potential income since the growth would be off the very low base.