More On Ike

George O'Brien

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nbadraft.net does not have profile for Ike Diogu, but ranks him 21st (behind Frye). draftcity.com has Ike listed at 13 with Frye at 30. Hoopshype does not have Ike in the first round while Inside Hoops has him at 29. My guess is that draftcity.com has Ike much higher than he is likely to go, since he will probably measure out at 6'7". Assuming that he stays in the draft, I would expect Ike to be available when the Suns draft.

Draft City is the only mock I've looked at that has a detailed description. It is obvious from their writeup why they rank him so high. Ike Diogu

Incredibly smart, tough, skilled big man, a double-double machine at the NCAA level. With the exception of possibly Andrew Bogut, Ike Diogu is easily the most skilled big man in the NCAA.

First his frame. He is lean, but very strong, with big broad shoulders that can take more bulk if needed. His arms are long and his hands are fantastic--soft, but huge, and he uses them to gobble up any rebound that is even remotely in his area. He is a simply a beast on the glass, using his excellent combination of strength (both upper and lower body), a terrific wingspan, fantastic anticipation skills and athletic ability to predict where the ball is headed and then devour any rebound that comes his way, on both the offensive and defensive glass. He is extremely tough to put a body on because he is constantly moving, has a slithery frame and just loves to bang in the post.

Offensively, he is about as skilled as they come. He can score from anywhere on the floor, and in many different ways. Inside the paint he has outstanding footwork, and he gets off the floor quickly and always finishes strong at the hoop, even in the most difficult situations. If backing his man down to the basket isn’t working, he can quickly convert and hit the turnaround jumper, maybe with a little kiss off the glass, a great skill to have for a big man in the NBA.

Diogu has great motor skills and controls his body better than any other post player at the college level. He has a wide arsenal of moves he can go to, and can finish well with either hand, even in traffic. No one in America outside the NBA is better than Diogu at getting to the line. He is sent to the charity stripe roughly 10 times a game, and converts 80% of his attempts. He’s not the type of player that needs plays called for him, as he can probably live off scraps if needed and still get a double-double if the minutes are there.

Diogu plays Center right now for his team, but will have no problem moving to the 4 spot in the pros. He has a beautiful (although not super consistent yet) jumper with a high release that makes it extremely tough to block. He is a solid mid-range shooter, but has range that extends all the way to the NCAA three point line, and shoots a good percentage when he steps behind the arc and lets one fly. He’s very good on the pick and roll as well.

Diogu’s handle is very good for a PF. It’s not rare to see him dribble the ball confidently down the floor, and his excellent feel for the game allows him to lead the break and deliver good passes in transition. He is very good moving without the ball, understands the angles and how to use them, and is quick at recognizing a hole in the defense and exploit it. Diogu understands the team concept and has no problem getting everyone else involved, despite being the undisputed star of his team; he is an unselfish player and still shoots an incredible percentage from the field for a player that draws so much attention. His court demeanor is excellent, cool and calm, and he appears to be a very good teammate on and off the floor. He is a humble player with a good work ethic according to everyone around him.

Diogu is a very intelligent player that is fundamentally sound. He spaces himself well to avoid the constant double teaming that is thrown his way, and understands the game well enough to make it easy for his teammates to get him the ball or score themselves. He knows how to clear space without drawing a foul to open up the lane for a slashing teammate, and will move to exactly the right space to receive the pass and finish in emphatic fashion.

Defensively, Diogu has become a terrific shotblocker this year, especially from the weak-side. His timing is fantastic and he gets off the floor quickly and accurately to intimidate and come up with huge rejections, but usually still keeping the ball inbounds. He is very tough to back down in the paint because of his excellent lower body strength, but he has yet to be fully unleashed on this end because of how important he is to Arizona State. To call them a one man team would be a compliment, if Diogu is not on the floor they have absolutely no chance of beating anyone in the Pac-10, and would struggle against almost any Division 1 team. His lateral quickness looks decent at times and not so great in others, but you can tell that he has been told to do anything to avoid getting in foul trouble at all costs, and that shows.

His size will always be the main one. He’s listed at 6-8 and should be in good, although not ideal shape as long as he stays there after measurements. Any less than that could spell trouble for him.

Athletically, he’s not a run/jump type freak. If you combine those two physical attributes its not a stretch to say that he won’t find it as easy to finish around the basket as he does in the NCAA. His jump shot is solid right now, but could use some more consistency.

Defensively, he is largely untested, as he does not play in a conference that is overflowing with NBA caliber big men, and his man to man defense could stand to improve, especially when going up against much taller and more athletic players in the NBA.

He doesn't have superstar potential, he's more of a solid starting type PF at his size.


Diogu plays in the Pac-10, an up-tempo guard loving conference which doesn’t have a lot of great big men, certainly no one that can contain him. He is constantly facing double and triple teams and manages to still put up huge numbers despite not playing with a true PG.

Against the top big man in the Pac-10 and one of the top C’s in the country, Channing Frye, he fared very well in their two matchups. In the first he had 23 points, 11 rebounds and 5 blocks (many of them on Frye himself), while Frye had 21 points, 6 rebounds and no blocked shots. In the second matchup Diogu had 25 points, 5 rebounds and 2 blocks, while holding Frye to 10 points (3-11 FG), 9 rebounds and 3 blocks.


Diogu has declared for the draft, without an agent.

"I want to declare for the NBA draft, leaving my options open without having an agent," said Diogu, who won't attend any of the draft camps, but will participate in private workouts for interested teams.

Sun Devils coach Rob Evans agreed with the decision.

"He needs to explore his options at this time, and the NBA has a very good program to help him," Evans said. "Arizona State is behind him, and we are going to do whatever Ike feels is best for him and his family."

---

Diogu should be considered a lock for the 1st round, with strong workouts possibly making him a potential lottery pick. How he fares against similarly ranked players at his position, if they will dare to risk matching up with him, will decide where he is selected in the draft. If he thinks that he can go higher next year with the potential age limit kicking in (and that's a possibility) he may elect to stay and terrorize Pac-10 frontcourt players for another season.

With a player like Ike Diogu, you are really better off looking at what he CAN do on the basketball court rather then what he can’t. No he isn’t 6-10 with a 40 inch vertical, but he’s about as skilled a player as you will find outside the NBA right now. People will say that he is not an athletic freak, the same thing that was said about Luol Deng, but I think that he is actually a very good athlete who is great getting up and down the court and has superb elevation off the floor.

Diogu owns all kinds of Arizona State and Pac-10 records and the fact that he may be running out of space in his dorm room for all the awards he has won so far may have played a role in his decision to declare for the draft.

Related DraftCity Articles:
Should they stay or should they go?: Vol. 1
Scouting the NIT
In Case You Missed It: The best NCAA Performances, 2/1 - 2/6
Scouting the Pac-10
Chuck Everett's 2005 Mock Draft
NCAA Preview: Part 2

Related DraftCity Daily Posts:
1/29 Saturday Recap: Keynote Performances
1/20 Thursday night early recap

Misc. Links
Diogu declares for NBA, doesn't sign agent
ESPN Profile
Arizona State Profile
Name:
Ike Diogu

Height/Weight:
6' 8"; 242 pounds

Current Team:
Arizona State, Junior

Position in the NBA:
PF

Date of Birth :
9/12/1983 (21 Years Old)



High School:
Garland

Hometown:
Garland, TX

Earliest Draft Class:
2005

Current Position:
PF

Expected Position:
PF

Possible Positions:
SF/PF

Best Case Scenario:
Zach Randolph With Heart

Worst Case Scenario:
Rich Man's Udonis Haslem / Malik Rose

Profile Written By:
Jonathan Givony

Last Updated:
3/29/2005
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Weakness

His size will always be the main one. He’s listed at 6-8 and should be in good, although not ideal shape as long as he stays there after measurements. Any less than that could spell trouble for him.

Athletically, he’s not a run/jump type freak. If you combine those two physical attributes its not a stretch to say that he won’t find it as easy to finish around the basket as he does in the NCAA. His jump shot is solid right now, but could use some more consistency.

Defensively, he is largely untested, as he does not play in a conference that is overflowing with NBA caliber big men, and his man to man defense could stand to improve, especially when going up against much taller and more athletic players in the NBA.

He doesn't have superstar potential, he's more of a solid starting type PF at his size.
 

asudevil83

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i thought that he was going to return for another season at ASU
 

Evil Ash

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asudevil83 said:
i thought that he was going to return for another season at ASU

Still possible, he declared himself eligible for the draft but will not hire an agent. Meaning if doesn't like where he is picked he is still NCAA eligible ... I think a smart move on his part.

Personally I wouldn't mind us taking Ike with the Bulls pick and thats not ASU bias. I think he'd be a good bench player for us, even though at the next level he doesn't really have a position
 

coloradosun

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Evil Ash said:
Still possible, he declared himself eligible for the draft but will not hire an agent. Meaning if doesn't like where he is picked he is still NCAA eligible ... I think a smart move on his part.

That's not accurate, he has to pull out of the draft by a certain date, a week before I believe. He cannot be in the draft at all, he can only guess where he could be selected.
 

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Well, I've lobbied for Ike, but I do not think the ASU media relations folks could have written a more pro-Ike analysis. It's so fair to the point of ignoring some of his more obvious weaknesses, mainly has lack of superior lateral quickness.

I am for Ike because I think he brings good hands, scoring and rebounding off the bench. I'm not convinced he'd ever be more than that and I don't ever see him starting for any team not named the Clippers. Still, with the 20th pick for a contender, can you get any more tailor made? For the record, I refute anyone who thinks he wouldn't be able to run with the Suns. I think an important point to consider is you need rebounds to start the run. Ike could be that guy for the second unit.
 
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What is this guy's wingspan? I'm from SEC country and never got to see him play a full game (mainly Sportcenter stuff). For a PF that is no taller than 6'8", a long wingspan will help him play bigger (like Matrix).

And if he does well in individual workouts I think he'll be gone before any draft choice we have. Other than that, skilled athletes that can score fit like a glove on our team, or so it seems.

I'm hesitant to lean towards this guy because he seems to be rising up the draft boards quickly. Sounds like a potential letdown for us.

But if we get him (and he doesn't have alligator arms-IMO that's very important).

Does his wingspan equal his height (average) our is he a knuckle dragger like Marion and Tayshawn Prince?
 

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lancelet's cousin said:
What is this guy's wingspan? I'm from SEC country and never got to see him play a full game (mainly Sportcenter stuff). For a PF that is no taller than 6'8", a long wingspan will help him play bigger (like Matrix).

I don't think he has that kind of wingspan, but he certainly doesn't have alligator arms. He played center at a height he will likely officially be measured at around 6'7"-3/4. Good arm length and a body frame that suits natural bulk are his strengths.
 

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No he can be drafted, then return to the NCAA unless they have changed the rules recently.

If he does not sign an agent or an NBA contract he retains his eligibility.
 

coloradosun

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SirChaz said:
No he can be drafted, then return to the NCAA unless they have changed the rules recently.

If he does not sign an agent or an NBA contract he retains his eligibility.

Then why did all those Euro's pull out of the draft last summer. Once you commit to being selected you are the property of the team that selects you. You have to live with where you are chosen and the salary that is slotted for it. That's what Martynas did last summer, he wanted to be a top 5 pick and found that he could have slipped and removed his name.

You are right about eligibility, he retains it if he pulls his name out of the draft without signing with an agent.
 
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Chaz

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coloradosun said:
Then why did all those Euro's pull out of the draft last summer. Once you commit to being selected you are the property of the team that selects you. You have to live with where you are chosen and the salary that is slotted for it. That's what Martynas did last summer, he wanted to be a top 5 pick and found that he could have slipped and removed his name.

You are right about eligibility, he retains it if he pulls his name out of the draft without signing with an agent.


Because then their rights are owned by that team and any contract amont would be based on that draft position.

They pulled out untill they could get a higher draft position.

I thought there was something about sitting out a year and re-entering the draft next year.


Plus there are two different issues here. One is draft position and the signing rights of the NBA team, the other is the NCAA eligibility.
 

coloradosun

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SirChaz said:
Because then their rights are owned by that team and any contract amont would be based on that draft position.

They pulled out untill they could get a higher draft position.

I thought there was something about sitting out a year and re-entering the draft next year.


Plus there are two different issues here. One is draft position and the signing rights of the NBA team, the other is the NCAA eligibility.

The last guy that I remember getting drafted by a team and then returning to school was Larry Bird. Boston had his rights after he finished 4 years of eligibility but was granted another year because he had transfered to Indiana State from Indiana. He was drafted before he decided to go back. This I believe was the whole start of Bird Rights and that practice ended at that time. Also there were no agents involved at all.

Also high schoolers have to do the same if they want to attend college, if they hire an agent, there is no turning back. If they don't, they still have to declare whether or not they are staying in the draft. If not, teams would be wasting a pick.
 

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If the Bulls maintain their current status, Ike may be out of reach. As of today the Bulls are tied with the Nuggets, Grizzlies and Wizards for the 9th best record in the league.

In watching the NC/Michigan St. game last Saturday I was surprised by Jawad Williams. He is much more athletic than Sean May but will probably fall in the range that the Suns may be picking. He hit 2 3pt shots and had a pretty good stroke. This guy is truly 6'9" and may be more of a fit than Ike. In draftcity's profile under "comments" , they stated that he could turn out to be a better pro than McCants, May or Felton.
 
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George O'Brien

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One of the issues about whether guys stay in the draft is if they get a "promise". Sometimes teams will promise a guy they will take him if he's available and the player uses this to decide to declare or not. No promise - not available. An extreme example is what the Suns did with Zarko. Once he got the promise, he didn't even work out with very many other teams.

Why would anybody do this? If some player felt that playing for the Suns would give him a chance to shine, it might be worth the money versus playing for a weak team. Hunter didn't even talk to any other team even though he might have gotten a bit more money.
 

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Jawad Williams was once on my list of 3/4's that could fit well with Suns but when I started checking stats... he averages 4.0 rebounds and the team may be deep but last year and year before, only averaged 5+ rebounds as well.

He'd fit well in a skillball team, if Suns could find a monster rebounder/role player, I'd change my mind but I got away from PG's in Draft because I'm interested in a REBOUNDER that can fit skillball role. I do like his game for being mentioned in 2nd Round though...
 

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As I have always stated there are only so many rebounds to go around in a game.

Marvin Williams substituted for Jawad Williams, grabbed 6.6 rebounds this year, collectively they combined for 10.6 rebounds per game. Team that with May's average of 10.7 that is quite a few for the frontline.

In the backcourt McCants and Felton had 3.0 and 4.3 respectively, that's 7 per game for the starting backcourt. As deep as the bench is, they also averaged almost 2.5 per player.
 
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coloradosun said:
As I have always stated there are only so many rebounds to go around in a game.

Marvin Williams substituted for Jawad Williams, grabbed 6.6 rebounds this year, collectively they combined for 10.6 rebounds per game. Team that with May's average of 10.7 that is quite a few for the frontline.

In the backcourt McCants and Felton had 3.0 and 4.3 respectively, that's 7 per game for the starting backcourt. As deep as the bench is, they also averaged almost 2.5 per player.
Great point. We forget that we also expect Amare to pick up his rebounding as well. If he works harder to improve this year on boxing out and rebounding than he did last year on his midrange jumper than we may be drafting for a position we no longer need.

But any athletic player that doesn't have oversized hands should be able to develop a jumpshooter in one off-season. I think that's why Nash graded his improvement this year as a "B+" and not the "A++" that the media were hyping because he increased his range. It was a good sign that he made a concerted effort to add that important piece to his arsenal. But he needs to focus on the real fundamentals now.

It may well be possible that the Sun's staff are happy with his development in that area enough to look at other options in the draft besides a rebounder. Plus we have 3 other guys the rebound and are also very young.
 

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lancelet's cousin said:
Great point. We forget that we also expect Amare to pick up his rebounding as well. If he works harder to improve this year on boxing out and rebounding than he did last year on his midrange jumper than we may be drafting for a position we no longer need.

Amare could become Wilt Chamberlin and the Suns would still need quality fours and fives off the bench. Amare's improvement will have zero impact on how the Suns draft this year.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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coloradosun said:
The last guy that I remember getting drafted by a team and then returning to school was Larry Bird. Boston had his rights after he finished 4 years of eligibility but was granted another year because he had transfered to Indiana State from Indiana. He was drafted before he decided to go back. This I believe was the whole start of Bird Rights and that practice ended at that time. Also there were no agents involved at all.

Also high schoolers have to do the same if they want to attend college, if they hire an agent, there is no turning back. If they don't, they still have to declare whether or not they are staying in the draft. If not, teams would be wasting a pick.


voshon lenard did it too. maybe rashard griffith.
 

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I really like his game but last year, Carolina wasn't as deep and he averaged 5.4 rebounds. That's the number I'd keep in mind, the Tar Heels were loaded this year. If Granger, Warrick, and Graham are off the board - I'd consider it if I were Drafting but I'd like to see how things work out in Playoffs first. I still do have J Williams on my 1st Round bubble on signature, so I haven't forgotten him...

He made 40 3PTers which obviously would make him a better fit there than a Warrick, and he has decent height for a 3/4, nice athleticism. Still waiting for Playoffs to see if I change my mind about a 3/4 selection. I have a feeling the rebounds won't hurt as much in Playoffs as most think but you never know... for now I want a rebounder.
 
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Gaddabout said:
Amare could become Wilt Chamberlin and the Suns would still need quality fours and fives off the bench. Amare's improvement will have zero impact on how the Suns draft this year.
Maybe in the sense that the draft will come before the Sun's staff get a full look at offseason improvement. So I'll give you that. But If Amare comes out guns blazing on defense I can't see how it wouldn't have a dramatic impact on next year's options. But regardless of who we draft it won't have the impact of the expected improvements of our four young starters. I'm saying we aren't lacking in talent (obviously), just experience.That's why the Sun's staff had a 2-3 year plan to get to the championship-instead of this improbable 1st year run.

Yes we need something better at 3/4 on the bench. But if The Sun's draft a PG I won't be upset-I never doubt them when it comes to eyeing talent at that postion. Because as much as I love Barbosa, we need a filler there too. There are still cheap free agents and at least a handful of other's that just want to play for us. Both Kobe and Shaq went to LA because that's where they wanted to be. We might be in that boat next year. Players have stated time and time again that they would love to play our style. So who knows? We have an excellent chance at landing a FA or two who want to play for a winner and have as much fun as the NBA allows while doing it.:)

As it is I don't care who we draft because I'm no scout. Hunter would only get PT on this team, and doesn't do half bad considering how cheap he is. What I want to know is, how more athletes like this are floundering on half-court, slow paced teams? I'm guessing a few. For dirt cheap like Hunter.

This draft really just seems overall too weak to care about (for me). If I was a better scout (or actually watched college games outside the SEC:D )
I might.
 

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lancelet's cousin said:
This draft really just seems overall too weak to care about (for me). If I was a better scout (or actually watched college games outside the SEC:D )
I might.

What do you think of Lawrence Roberts?
 

coloradosun

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I only saw Roberts once and I still think that Jawad is more athletic. Roberts seemed to be a 'low post only' type player. Again the thing I like and I think the Suns would prefer, is a good jump shooter at every position. One reason McCarty was acquired is that he could hit the 3.

The draft may be weak but picking at 20 has equitable talent through 30. It may be a benefit that the Chicago pick has dropped for a couple of reasons. 1)if we resign JJ we don't need another star, role players will do, 2) lottery selections average 2.5M towards the cap, 20 and above(or below, however you look at it) are 1M or less, which would allow for a vet minimum player to be added or McCarty retained helping our depth.
 

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Ouchie-Z-Clown said:
voshon lenard did it too. maybe rashard griffith.

They both were 2nd round picks in 1994 and 1995. Second rounders may have different rules than 1st round selections, I am doing some investigating.

Just found an article about Lenard about his status after being drafted.

The rule back then is if a player had not signed with a team or an agent, he had 30 days to decide if he wanted to return to College.

Lenard was never the property of the Milwaukee Bucks even though they drafted him. He briefly played in the CBA before signing with the Miami heat in the middle of the 1995 season. Milwaukee lost all rights to him when he decided to go back to college. Must not have signed with an agent.

Griffith was drafted by Milwaukee but never went back to Wisconsin, he ended up playing in Europe. His rights were traded to Utah for Jamal Sampson after the 2002 draft. Must have signed with an agent.

So if a player does not sign with an agent, why would an NBA team draft a player.
 
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PhxGametime

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Jawad Williams is better athletically obviously but Roberts has a little range (made around 10 3PTers), not too much but can make a jumper. He's not that bad of an athlete and rebounds in the 11+ range. :D Not a great shot-blocker though, I've mentioned it before but he reminds me of Googs. Decent overall player, not great but might have enough skillball game to help. Other than 1 of your choices ;) J.J Redick, I won't be too disappointed, Suns Draft well...
 
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Roberts isn't a great fit on this team.
I'm no scout, but he always looked smallish to me. IMO a bright future for him would be 6th man of the year. I don't see him as a starter. I watched him very closely because we (Hogs) have a highly-touted freshman (Darian Townes) that had to match up twice this year with Roberts. The first match-up was one-sided as expected but the second game kind exposed Roberts, IMO. Townes is listed at a more NBA-like 6-10 250lbs and the size difference really bothered Roberts through most of the game. If I had to I would project him as a decent situational player of the bench.

And if you look at his numbers they haven't improved in 3 years. He's not who I want us taking IOW.
 

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