Errntknght
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I couldn't figure out how to get links but Suns.com has about 28 minutes of Saturdays scimmage - in three parts
more scrimmages
- Thread starter Errntknght
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JCSunsfan
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I have been watching the clips of scrimmages as well. I had no particular hopes or opinions about Warrick, but he has a presence on the court. His athleticism is notable. Janning has been impressive, but more as a shooter than distributor.
JCSunsfan
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observations after having watched the scrimmages.
1. Turk will add alot of outside shooting to this team. Opposition will have difficulty defending Frye and Turk
2. Childress has athleticism, but a terrible stroke, that arms forward extended release reminds me of Shawn Marion and Barbs.
3. Siler got a few boards but looks like he is hauling a boat anchor.
4. Turk is a black hole. There is no shot he does not like.
5. Dragic is really looking like a leader on the court. His confidence is way up.
6. Interesting seeing Kerr sitting with Sarver at the :23 mark of the third video. Seems odd.
1. Turk will add alot of outside shooting to this team. Opposition will have difficulty defending Frye and Turk
2. Childress has athleticism, but a terrible stroke, that arms forward extended release reminds me of Shawn Marion and Barbs.
3. Siler got a few boards but looks like he is hauling a boat anchor.
4. Turk is a black hole. There is no shot he does not like.
5. Dragic is really looking like a leader on the court. His confidence is way up.
6. Interesting seeing Kerr sitting with Sarver at the :23 mark of the third video. Seems odd.
SactownSunsFan
Welcome to the Age of Ayton
Kerr lives in San Diego. I'm sure he still has great interest in the team he helped to build. I don't find it odd at all.
carrrnuttt
Didactic
He's also still a part owner.
I like the tempo in the games, because if this team is going to make the PO this season, they have to run almost all the the time, probably faster offense than last season. Hopefully Janning and Dragic will be able to relieve Nash during reg season.
Apart from that ugly stroke, Childress play is really similar to Marion, with the exception that he can create his own shot. Dude will be a good fit for this system.
Turkoglu was more of a spot up shooter in the plays showed, i hope his play making ability will be put to use.
Lawal is a beast and with more playing time, dude may just be the closest we will get to replacing Amare's power drive to the basket.
Apart from that ugly stroke, Childress play is really similar to Marion, with the exception that he can create his own shot. Dude will be a good fit for this system.
Turkoglu was more of a spot up shooter in the plays showed, i hope his play making ability will be put to use.
Lawal is a beast and with more playing time, dude may just be the closest we will get to replacing Amare's power drive to the basket.
Vellasco
Newbie
How long it is going to take Hedo Turkoglu and Hakim Warrick to get adjusted to the speed of his game:
Gentry “Well I think it is going to take a little while because one of the things is you have a tendency to pass up shots the way we play. It happened to Channing at the start, now he is very comfortable in what we are trying to get done but I think what happens is all of a sudden you take 2, 3 straight shots and then you think, ‘Boy I can’t. I got to pass up the next couple and move the basketball,’ and really that hurts us more than it helps us. One of those things that I have talked to, especially Turkoglu about is that, ‘Hey you have an open shot and you have got to shoot it because if you don’t it hurts us as much as shooting a bad shot.”
dodie53
A. O. II
that means a green light for Hedo,
i bet he likes that.
i bet he likes that.
Errntknght
Registered User
Turk was on fire - I heard one of the other players say that he's hardly missed a shot all week. He took a few midrange shots, too, which I was glad to see - hope to see even more of them from him.
As JC said Childress' shot is painful to watch - worse looking than Marion's. Hopefully he doesn't take Gentry's words about never passing up a good shot too much to heart - or adopts a pretty restricted definition of a good shot when he's at the 3pt line. His lifetime pctage from 3 is better than Shawns but not by a large margin. He looked very good finishing on the break - and laying the ball off to someone else when that was called for. He works the baseline better than anyone I've seen in a Suns uni since Ceballos. Ced was terrific but since then there's been no one that even tried much... Grant is probably second best. We'll see...
Janning didn't show a lot of PG skills but he definitely looked calm, cool and collected out there. Nice stroke from 3 and was surprisingly good driving to the basket as well, when crowded. At this point I'd have to say I wouldn't mind seeing the ball in his hands when the pressure is on.
Dwayne Jones wasn't as big as I thought but he was very active - he's more like Lou than anyone else on the team - a little slower reaction time but that should improve the more he plays. I didn't get a feel for how he was on 1-1 defense, though. Thats going to be key to him getting on the floor.
I've been pretty hyped about this team all summer and I'm moreso now - the one bad thing is that the second team defense is not looking at all sharp. I'm attributing it to the fact that they are not being played as a well defined unit thus far and, of course, they improved greatly last year as the season wore on.
The best thing is that Gentry seems committed to the team running all game long and to using his strong bench to keep fresh legs on the floor - we will probably get to see SSOL as it should be played! Well, we are missing the crackerjack rebounder that could ignite endless fastbreaks but you can't have everything. Its going to take good decision making by the secondary rebounders - whether they need to go for a rebound or can jump out on the break.
1st: Nash, JRich, Hill, Hedo, Lopez
2nd: Dragic, Childress, Duds, Lawal, Frye
Janning, Warrick, Clark, Jones
Damn, thats deep. To tell the truth Clark has looked much better than he did in summer league. If he can just keep on track he could climb over Warrick and Lawal. Actually, I suspect that Gentry is going to keep Chucky Atkins on the active roster to start the season, just to have more experience available. I didn't see enough from him to agree wholeheartedly but heck, I'll just trust Gentry on that one.
As JC said Childress' shot is painful to watch - worse looking than Marion's. Hopefully he doesn't take Gentry's words about never passing up a good shot too much to heart - or adopts a pretty restricted definition of a good shot when he's at the 3pt line. His lifetime pctage from 3 is better than Shawns but not by a large margin. He looked very good finishing on the break - and laying the ball off to someone else when that was called for. He works the baseline better than anyone I've seen in a Suns uni since Ceballos. Ced was terrific but since then there's been no one that even tried much... Grant is probably second best. We'll see...
Janning didn't show a lot of PG skills but he definitely looked calm, cool and collected out there. Nice stroke from 3 and was surprisingly good driving to the basket as well, when crowded. At this point I'd have to say I wouldn't mind seeing the ball in his hands when the pressure is on.
Dwayne Jones wasn't as big as I thought but he was very active - he's more like Lou than anyone else on the team - a little slower reaction time but that should improve the more he plays. I didn't get a feel for how he was on 1-1 defense, though. Thats going to be key to him getting on the floor.
I've been pretty hyped about this team all summer and I'm moreso now - the one bad thing is that the second team defense is not looking at all sharp. I'm attributing it to the fact that they are not being played as a well defined unit thus far and, of course, they improved greatly last year as the season wore on.
The best thing is that Gentry seems committed to the team running all game long and to using his strong bench to keep fresh legs on the floor - we will probably get to see SSOL as it should be played! Well, we are missing the crackerjack rebounder that could ignite endless fastbreaks but you can't have everything. Its going to take good decision making by the secondary rebounders - whether they need to go for a rebound or can jump out on the break.
1st: Nash, JRich, Hill, Hedo, Lopez
2nd: Dragic, Childress, Duds, Lawal, Frye
Janning, Warrick, Clark, Jones
Damn, thats deep. To tell the truth Clark has looked much better than he did in summer league. If he can just keep on track he could climb over Warrick and Lawal. Actually, I suspect that Gentry is going to keep Chucky Atkins on the active roster to start the season, just to have more experience available. I didn't see enough from him to agree wholeheartedly but heck, I'll just trust Gentry on that one.
Chaplin
Better off silent
Good post, but I think it's almost certain that Warrick will be the 2nd PF off the bench over Lawal and Clark.
I am inclined to agree. In reading the stuff about Warrick, I wasn't aware how many coaches he has had in the NBA. Maybe having one coach and one defensive system he will surprise us. IMHO, he will have to clearly fail on defense for Clark to beat him out.
IMHO Lawal will be a practice guy for a while. The coaches say that the one thing that translates easiest from college to the pro ranks is rebounding, so he has great promise. But he has a lot to learn.
Chaplin
Better off silent
And you can't discount that the player that had the most criticism during camp was Gani Lawal. I want him to succeed as much as anyone, but to say he'll get more minutes over Hakim Warrick is naive and unrealistic.
Errntknght
Registered User
Alongside a power C you could maybe afford to have a tweener forward like Warrick at PF but alongside Frye, he can't do the job - not on defense and not on the boards. Among guys who played over 1000 minutes last year Frye was 5th worst among centers and Warrick was 10th worst among PFs at rebounding. (And they were having good seasons for them.) That puts the duo at the bottom of the barrel even for second units. There are no stats on defensive play to make it so patently clear, but they are both weak defenders, too.
Warrick is a good scorer but the second unit has ample firepower without him and Gani will give them a low post presence - a nice big target, and relatively close to the basket, when his defender goes to help out. He has the right instincts when he gets the ball near the rim, too.
I do know Gani is a rookie and will make his fair share of rookie mistakes and outright blunders but there is a cure for that - give him lots of playing time from the get-go, so by playoff time he's no longer a rookie. It takes some 'heuvos' to make that kind of a move but I think the way Gentry plays the second unit as a group will help him make it - it will be abundantly clear a frontcourt of Frye and Warrick is far too weak.
Warrick would fit somewhat better stepping in for Hedo on the first unit - they actually gain some rebounding while losing at bit of height, playmaking and long range shooting. Warrick is fair at the pick & roll so Steve will make something out of that. Of course, it will do some damage to their normal spacing but if Hedo is injured or otherwise unavailable Warrick is probably the best option.
I'm a bit surprised at you George, IIRC your first comment about Warrick was that you thought he and Frye could not cut it together as a frontcourt combo. Good first instincts.
Chap, I'm not primarily interested in Lawal succeeding - my interest is having the team playing its best when the playoffs roll around. Gani has what the team needs most to be a force in the playoffs and in order to have him make enough progress to be a significant contributor, I'd put him on the fast track and take whatever lumps come while he learning. Its just a stroke of luck that his game is such a perfect fit for the second unit - hell, I'd probably call for Dwayne Jones over Warrick if he was all we had - but I'd wait a bit until everyone could see F & W was a disasterous frontcourt.
Warrick is a good scorer but the second unit has ample firepower without him and Gani will give them a low post presence - a nice big target, and relatively close to the basket, when his defender goes to help out. He has the right instincts when he gets the ball near the rim, too.
I do know Gani is a rookie and will make his fair share of rookie mistakes and outright blunders but there is a cure for that - give him lots of playing time from the get-go, so by playoff time he's no longer a rookie. It takes some 'heuvos' to make that kind of a move but I think the way Gentry plays the second unit as a group will help him make it - it will be abundantly clear a frontcourt of Frye and Warrick is far too weak.
Warrick would fit somewhat better stepping in for Hedo on the first unit - they actually gain some rebounding while losing at bit of height, playmaking and long range shooting. Warrick is fair at the pick & roll so Steve will make something out of that. Of course, it will do some damage to their normal spacing but if Hedo is injured or otherwise unavailable Warrick is probably the best option.
I'm a bit surprised at you George, IIRC your first comment about Warrick was that you thought he and Frye could not cut it together as a frontcourt combo. Good first instincts.
Chap, I'm not primarily interested in Lawal succeeding - my interest is having the team playing its best when the playoffs roll around. Gani has what the team needs most to be a force in the playoffs and in order to have him make enough progress to be a significant contributor, I'd put him on the fast track and take whatever lumps come while he learning. Its just a stroke of luck that his game is such a perfect fit for the second unit - hell, I'd probably call for Dwayne Jones over Warrick if he was all we had - but I'd wait a bit until everyone could see F & W was a disasterous frontcourt.
Chaplin
Better off silent
I don't understand why you hate Warrick so much. You haven't even seen him in our system and you already think he's no better than our raw rookie? Doesn't seem rational to me.
At this point in their careers, Gani Lawal's mistakes could lose us games; Hakim Warrick's won't.
jbeecham
ASFN Addict
Lawal had some nice dunks & moves around the basket in the scrimmage, but I highly doubt he would be our backup PF at this point... especially with the money we're paying to Frye & Warrick. Besides F & W are gonna be going up against other backup players most of the time so their defense & rebounding problems hopefully won't be as big of a factor & they can make up for it on the other end with speed & shooting ability.
Lawal, Clark & Jones will probably only get garbage time minutes... although I think Clark will get some chances if someone's shot is off or if we have an injury.
Other thoughts on the scrimmage video:
Childress's shot is ugly... Marion ugly, but he can slash to the basket well & get out on the break... luckily he'll have other guys on the 2nd unit that can space the floor (Duds, Frye, Dragic).
Lopez - has he worked on anything this summer? The guy should be automatic from inside of 8ft with that hook shot by now! Especially in a game like this where no one could contest his shot.
Hedo - his shot looked great and he shot it often... hopefully his shot will still be on when he's getting pounded by PFs all night long.
Janning - has a nice looking shot & the confidence to shoot it. He can also put the ball on the floor & go by people. Looked like a smart ball player & I'd probably keep him around over Chucky Atkins... especially when we're talking about a 3rd string pg/sg.
Warrick - had a couple of nice plays around the basket, but nothing that wowed me... he looks like he could run the P&R pretty well & can be a good finisher. I remember him being a guy that played above the rim, but he didn't get a chance to show that here.
Clark - Still looks timid & unsure of what he wants to do. Defaults to facing up his defender & taking a bad jump shot too often. He needs to become a P&R player & slasher to the basket... his biggest problem is that he thinks he's a good play-maker and that he can create his own shot (because he could in college), but it's not working yet on the NBA level.
Dudley - looked leaner... like he's dropped 10-15 lbs.
Siler - plays the game in slow motion, unfortunately for him everyone else is at normal speed... no chance he makes the team. Almost screamed at my monitor when he went to block Dragic's shot on the fast break... had flashbacks of Danny Fortson taking out Zarko Cabarkapa...
I realize they wanted to mix up teams, but the black team was stacked... Nash, JRich, Dudley, Turk, Childress... I would've rather seen 1st string vs 2nd string & everyone else split up fairly.
Lawal, Clark & Jones will probably only get garbage time minutes... although I think Clark will get some chances if someone's shot is off or if we have an injury.
Other thoughts on the scrimmage video:
Childress's shot is ugly... Marion ugly, but he can slash to the basket well & get out on the break... luckily he'll have other guys on the 2nd unit that can space the floor (Duds, Frye, Dragic).
Lopez - has he worked on anything this summer? The guy should be automatic from inside of 8ft with that hook shot by now! Especially in a game like this where no one could contest his shot.
Hedo - his shot looked great and he shot it often... hopefully his shot will still be on when he's getting pounded by PFs all night long.
Janning - has a nice looking shot & the confidence to shoot it. He can also put the ball on the floor & go by people. Looked like a smart ball player & I'd probably keep him around over Chucky Atkins... especially when we're talking about a 3rd string pg/sg.
Warrick - had a couple of nice plays around the basket, but nothing that wowed me... he looks like he could run the P&R pretty well & can be a good finisher. I remember him being a guy that played above the rim, but he didn't get a chance to show that here.
Clark - Still looks timid & unsure of what he wants to do. Defaults to facing up his defender & taking a bad jump shot too often. He needs to become a P&R player & slasher to the basket... his biggest problem is that he thinks he's a good play-maker and that he can create his own shot (because he could in college), but it's not working yet on the NBA level.
Dudley - looked leaner... like he's dropped 10-15 lbs.
Siler - plays the game in slow motion, unfortunately for him everyone else is at normal speed... no chance he makes the team. Almost screamed at my monitor when he went to block Dragic's shot on the fast break... had flashbacks of Danny Fortson taking out Zarko Cabarkapa...
I realize they wanted to mix up teams, but the black team was stacked... Nash, JRich, Dudley, Turk, Childress... I would've rather seen 1st string vs 2nd string & everyone else split up fairly.
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