More small ball to come?

[Joe Mama]

It doesn't sound like BC867 is going to like the new Phoenix Suns head coach for his style. If this is true, perhaps somebody else would have been a better choice. The following is from today's ESPN Insider following the coaching change.

Joe Mama


D'Antoni won't be the disciplinarian or defensive guru some think the Suns need. He likes to play wide open basketball and relies heavily on the pick and rolls. He loves small ball and without Stoudemire, the Suns will need it. The team is pretty small up front and won't have any semblance of a low post offense.

But x's and o's aren't the issue. It's the players. D'Antoni's got to find a way to get them to tune in.

"It's a tough day, in the sense that I feel sorry for Frank," D'Antoni said today. "I was part of the staff that didn't get it done. . . We just weren't all on the same page at the same time. We've had a couple of players go AWOL on us this season, and I think it cost us games. . .The talent is there. They're the one the one's that have to play. They're the ones that are going to have to make us win."

And if they don't, it's just a matter of time before he'll be back in Italy wondering why he ever left.
public document

 

[Chaplin]

Well, right now, we don't have much of a choice.

 

[Wally]

Crap, crap, crap, etc.

 

[arthurracoon]

What is AWOL?

I know...I'm an idiot.

 

[newfan101]

Absence without leave.


I wonder who he was referring too?

 

[matt_whitlock]

Originally posted by newfan101
Absence without leave.


I wonder who he was referring too?

Probably Marbury, Penny, JJ, and Marion. Marbury's body language has left much to be desired, Penny doesn't always look into the games, JJ shoots 25% 75% of the time, and Marion, although he's come on strong lately, has had some sub-par games where he's looked like a Houdini dissappearing act. Where'd he go?

Of course, Amare has had some games where you have to question what he's doing. Everybody has been guilty of this kind of thing, really. I mean, they are human, and humans are going to have mood changes. Hopefully D'Antoni will be better than FJ was at keeping these collective, violent mood swings considerably less severe and less frequent.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by newfan101
Absence without leave.


I wonder who he was referring too?

My guess would be Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, and to a lesser extent Marbury. All of them have had their moments, but none has been great overall.

Joe Mama

 

[Wally]

Originally posted by newfan101
Absence without leave.


I wonder who he was referring too?

You know, if he used AWOL term, he must be an Ex military man..... Maybe he can get some discipline going with these youg guys.

 

[Skkorpion]

Penny's contract + Goog's contract = talent deficit.

The problem wasn't only the coaching. When things are bad for a long time, it usually is because things are bad at the top.

 

[haverford]

I think Schutd had it right earlier on another thread: the Colangelo's nepotism is a systemic problem. It distorts clear judgement and perpetuates cherished mistakes.....

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
Penny's contract + Goog's contract = talent deficit.

The problem wasn't only the coaching. When things are bad for a long time, it usually is because things are bad at the top.

But the coaching was definitely a problem. The Suns really can do anything about those bad contracts at this point. They could do something about the coaching, and they made a change.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

And no matter how much people complain about Jerry and Bryan, it's not going to matter. You either have to suck it up and accept that management knows what its doing, or simply stop being a fan of the Suns.

IMO, it wastes time and thread space to talk about getting rid of "management" when there is no way that will ever happen. So you look at what COULD be changed--i.e., coaching and player personnel. And at this point the easiest thing (and even the cheapest in some cases) to do was get rid of the coach.

 

[schutd]

But we're still allowed to bitch about it arent we? PLEASE?!?!?! Besides IM starting to believe that if at some point management is deemed the problem, it does NO good to simply sit idly by and let it happen becasue theres nothing we can do about. That sounds like a formula for more frustration. There are things that can be done. Watch the fan base dwindlw till the losses pile up and the money dries up and investors start making noise about management...

Ill try and find the silver lining. I hope that lining becomes readily apparent as this team starts ripping off the W's. I HOPE. I really do. But I feel much to be excited about in this hiring.

Why wont anybody freaking respond to my opinion that D'Antoni doesnt strike me as the type that has the stones to be a successful NBA coach. Did anyone pay attention to the sinking ship he captained in Denver? I knwo I know it was an Issel built Nugs team, but they were still NBA players. And he couldnt get them to win. Hardly EVER.

I dont know. Im rooting for him, I really am. I want to be wrong.

But I dont think he is going to get any closer to .500 than Frank did.

 

[sly fly]

To bash Colangelo for this mess is right and wrong (if that's possible).

Colangelo is ultra-competitive and impatient. His reaction to the new labor agreement was near-sighted. But, can you fault him?

He dished out mega bucks to Googs (after losing Dice), and thought he had the last piece in acquiring a superstar in Penny. Nobody questioned the moves at the time.

His failures are NOT from a lack of trying. The current labor agreement (and the timing) set this franchise back 10 years.

He can do nothing but wait. He can do nothing but hope this team finds chemistry. He can do nothing but hope they pull their heads out of their arses.

To even have 3 bona-fide players in Marbs, Marion, and Amare is quite amazing.

The only way PHX returns to prominence with these players is if they somehow GET IT. Acting like leaders instead of also-rans.

I guess we'll find out soon enough. No more coach to lay the blame on.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by schutd
Why wont anybody freaking respond to my opinion that D'Antoni doesnt strike me as the type that has the stones to be a successful NBA coach. Did anyone pay attention to the sinking ship he captained in Denver? I knwo I know it was an Issel built Nugs team, but they were still NBA players. And he couldnt get them to win. Hardly EVER.

I dont know. Im rooting for him, I really am. I want to be wrong.

But I dont think he is going to get any closer to .500 than Frank did.

You're talking Denver. That team absolutely sucked. At the time, that franchise didn't have a clue. And, there was already internal strife. It didn't matter who was coaching.

It's obvious Mike D knows the game. And, he was a helluva ballplayer from what I hear.

I'm willing to see what kinds of changes he's going to make. I hope he yanks the stragglers and cans their asses at the end of the bench. You take away an NBA players minutes... and you've got their attention (FJ NEVER DID THAT).

Should be more interesting than the actual pitiful performances we've been getting used to.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by sly fly
You're talking Denver. That team absolutely sucked. At the time, that franchise didn't have a clue. And, there was already internal strife. It didn't matter who was coaching.

It's obvious Mike D knows the game. And, he was a helluva ballplayer from what I hear.

I'm willing to see what kinds of changes he's going to make. I hope he yanks the stragglers and cans their asses at the end of the bench. You take away an NBA players minutes... and you've got their attention (FJ NEVER DID THAT).

Should be more interesting than the actual pitiful performances we've been getting used to.

I think Dave has softened his stance a little bit in regards to his opinion of Mike D in Denver--at least, according to another thread he has!

I agree with you 100% sly. Especially when talking about benching guys who aren't playing well. We all know who that really means. FJ loved JJ for some reason and no matter how badly he played, he kept playing... and playing... and playing.

 

[George O'Brien]

Let's Hope For the Best

Under FJ, the Suns looked lifeless and confused much of the time. Mike D has a major challenge in getting them to learn to play together as a team and sustain a higher level of energy.

But it could happen. Even with all their injuries, the Suns have a lot of talent. Everyone on this board has agreed that the Suns need to learn to move without the ball, cut to the basket, and not just dribble around and shoot threes. Maybe Mike can get the players to see it too.

If not, then the coach search will begin very quickly.

 

[Errntknght]

shutd, "Why wont anybody freaking respond to my opinion that D'Antoni doesnt strike me as the type that has the stones to be a successful NBA coach."

Maybe it's because none of us have any more insight than you do on the subject. It's hard to tell much about a coach over a short period of time from afar. So he wasn't a rip snorting success in the miasma known as Denver at the time. He's had some success coaching in Europe but I don't know what that says about his 'stones', either.

Besides, it doesn't much matter what we think right now - he's going to be here for some time and we'll soon have some first hand observations to go on. I can be as pessimistic as the next guy but I think I'll wait and watch a while.

Last but not least, I'm not sure 'stones' are as important as not having rocks in the head for an NBA coach. Is it their 'stones' that make Phil Jackson and Rick Adelman more successful than Pat Riley?

 

[Joe Mama]

Re: Let's Hope For the Best

Originally posted by Errntknght
shutd, "Why wont anybody freaking respond to my opinion that D'Antoni doesnt strike me as the type that has the stones to be a successful NBA coach."

Maybe it's because none of us have any more insight than you do on the subject. It's hard to tell much about a coach over a short period of time from afar. So he wasn't a rip snorting success in the miasma known as Denver at the time. He's had some success coaching in Europe but I don't know what that says about his 'stones', either.

Besides, it doesn't much matter what we think right now - he's going to be here for some time and we'll soon have some first hand observations to go on. I can be as pessimistic as the next guy but I think I'll wait and watch a while.

Last but not least, I'm not sure 'stones' are as important as not having rocks in the head for an NBA coach. Is it their 'stones' that make Phil Jackson and Rick Adelman more successful than Pat Riley?

Amen. That is an excellent post. That Denver team was just awful and matter who was coaching it. I say give him a chance to show what he can do with this team. And I'll say right now that I am going to be disappointed with people complaining after tonight's game. Give him a chance to establish his methods. I doubt one practice is going to make a huge difference, especially when the team is so undermanned.

Originally posted by George O'Brien
But it could happen. Even with all their injuries, the Suns have a lot of talent. Everyone on this board has agreed that the Suns need to learn to move without the ball, cut to the basket, and not just dribble around and shoot threes. Maybe Mike can get the players to see it too.

If not, then the coach search will begin very quickly.

Unfortunately almost every team in the NBA has as much talent as the Phoenix Suns minus Amare Stoudemire, Zarko Cabarkapa, and to a much lesser extent Barbosa.

Joe Mama

 

[BC867]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
It doesn't sound like BC867 is going to like the new Phoenix Suns head coach for his style. If this is true, perhaps somebody else would have been a better choice.

'Just read this, Joe, after posting on the other thread that I was pulling for Mike D'.

When I got home from work yesterday, I was going to post that, when the Suns fire Frank, Mike was going to get it. The Suns got the jump on me.

I just hope that Mike doesn't love small-ball too much once Amare returns.

 

[Joe Mama]

Re: Re: More small ball to come?

Originally posted by BC867
'Just read this, Joe, after posting on the other thread that I was pulling for Mike D'.

When I got home from work yesterday, I was going to post that, when the Suns fire Frank, Mike was going to get it. The Suns got the jump on me.

I just hope that Mike doesn't love small-ball too much once Amare returns.

I just read somewhere else that he likes long, athletic players. Amare Stoudemire certainly fits that description. I just hope White doesn't get buried on the bench. Something tells me the Colangelos do not want that. They'll need someone to rebound the ball and kick it out.

Joe Mama

 

[BC867]

Re: Re: Re: More small ball to come?

Originally posted by Joe Mama
I just hope White doesn't get buried on the bench. Something tells me the Colangelos do not want that. They'll need someone to rebound the ball and kick it out.

I hope you're right, Joe. As I've posted recently, I would love to see Jahidi starting at C, backed up by Jake.

And Scotty starting at PF during Amare's absence, then backing him up when he returns.

But they'll never move Williams to PF, so Zarco will probably back up both Forward positions when he comes back.

 

[Joe Mama]

I actually wanted to see Williams back up Amare Stoudemire at times when they were at full strength. I don't think they can afford to put Williams at power forward now because he, White, and Jake Voskuhl pickup fouls to easily. The Suns need all three of them just to have a center for 48 minutes.

Joe Mama

 

[zett]

Originally posted by Chaplin

I agree with you 100% sly. Especially when talking about benching guys who aren't playing well. We all know who that really means. FJ loved JJ for some reason and no matter how badly he played, he kept playing... and playing... and playing.

I don't think he was talking about benching players for not playing well, If what he is saying is what I'm thinking he said (lol) He's talking about players that are not putting out the effort to deserve playing time, Joe Johnson for shooting so poorly does not deseve to be buried on the bench, He is one of the few that work hard at both ends of the floor when ever he is out there. I for one think eventually his shots will start to fall, Hopefully with some consistancy. some others look disintrested in being out there at times...

 

[George O'Brien]

I just hope White doesn't get buried on the bench.

White had 21 minutes against the Hornets and picked up five rebounds and four fouls.

Question, anyone know why Williams was DNP? Is he hurt or just out of favor?