More tid bits on KG...

az1965

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  • Tom Powers of the Pioneer Press: "If, in fact, we're at the point where Kevin Garnett and his agent are nixing possible trades, then the longtime Timberwolves franchise lynchpin will be gone very soon. There's no turning back. This is like being in a long-term relationship and suddenly having your significant other say he or she would like to be able to see other people. It's never the same after that. A fissure has developed. The Wolves tried to trade, or at least strongly considered trading, Garnett. There's no way to pretend it never happened. The love affair is over."
  • TrueHoop reader Andy has a pretty clever trade to propose, now that it appears Garnett is trying to force his way to Phoenix, while the Suns don't want to give up Amare Stoudemire to get him: "How about this three way trade? Phoenix sends James Jones and Shawn Marion to the Lakers. Phoenix also sends the Hawks' first next year, a first this year, and Marcus Banks to the Minnesota. The Wolves send Garnett to Phoenix and Jaric to the Lakers. The Lakers send Vladimir Radmanoic to Phoenix, as well as Andrew Bynum, Kwame Brown and a resigned Luke Walton to Minnesota. In the end Phoenix gets Garnett without giving up any starters except Marion, and dumps Banks' contract. LA gets Marion without giving up Odom, giving them a starting five of Farmar, Kobe, Marion, Odom, and Mihm -- with Jaric (a big PG that Jackson will like), James Jones, Cook, and Turiaf coming off the bench. Theoretically a Marion/Odom/Kobe partnership might be enough to entice Kobe into sticking around. Minnesota gets Banks (who wasn't that bad in his time there) and swaps Brown's expiring contract for Jaric's bloated disaster. They really kickstart the rebuilding process with the Hawks' first next year, Walton, and Bynum -- which is potentially three-fifths of a starting line-up for a playoff team in three years or so. Obviously the deal requires Kobe deciding that Marion and Odom would be enough to convince him to stay, and the Timberwolves admitting they need to rebuild, and the Suns being willing to significantly improve the Lakers to get their hands on KG -- but I think all those conditions are possibly, if not likely. Not only do all three teams get something they need: PHX a potential answer to Duncan and resolution to the Amare/Marion issues, MIN gets good value for KG in a rough market, and LAL might get enough to convince Kobe to stay - all three teams get to shuffle around a deadweight contract into a system where they might be slightly more valuable. Jaric shot .375 on 3's last season, plays decent D, and is the kind of big PG Jackson loves to use. Banks wasn't bad in Minnesota, and VladRad would be a great complimentary piece in PHX. (The inclusion of Luke Walton, which can't be factored in to the trade machine, gives it a "false failure." Assume a contract starting at about five million for Walton and it would work. Too much higher than that and the Wolves could just ship Mark Madsen back to the Lakers to balance it out again. Please also note that the Wolves' draft picks don't show up in this scenario either."
  • John Hollinger in the New York Sun: "So it's easy to imagine the Bulls winning the bidding for Garnett's services especially now that Boston seems out of the running. Certainly Chicago has the pieces to offer. The Bulls can ante up with the rapidly improving small forward Luol Deng, and sweeten the pot with high-scoring guard Ben Gordon. They'd have to include a signed-and-traded P.J. Brown or Andres Nocioni to get the contracts to match, as well as an end-of-the-bench guy or two (Viktor Khryapa, please pick up the white courtesy phone), but the numbers can work. If Chicago makes the deal for Garnett, that pretty much takes them out of the running for Kobe they just wouldn't have enough assets left. And if Chicago is out of the picture, and Phoenix is beyond consideration, that just leaves one team left on Kobe's list the Knicks."
  • Could the Warriors get Garnett? Tim Kawakami of the Mercury News considers what they could offer: "I've gone over the list time and again, and right now Mullin could tell McHale to take his pick from a list of Patrick O'Bryant, Al Harrington, Jason Richardson, Mickael Pietrus, Matt Barnes, the No. 18 overall pick, Andris Biedrins/Monta Ellis. If Minnesota wants cap-clearance, Mullin can dangle Zarko Cabarkapa and, if the T-Wolves can wait two years, Adonal Foyle." My interpretation of that situation is: no. The Warriors are not in the running for Garnett.
 

elindholm

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I think my head exploded while trying to decode that three-way with the Lakers. But again, there's no way that L. A. wants a Bynum-for-Marion deal. They can flip Bynum for Jermaine O'Neal any time they want.
 

SunsTzu

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I think my head exploded while trying to decode that three-way with the Lakers. But again, there's no way that L. A. wants a Bynum-for-Marion deal. They can flip Bynum for Jermaine O'Neal any time they want.

The proposed deal for JO includes Odom though. I don't think the Lakers would have any problem trading Bynum for JO if it meant the kept Kobe and Lamar.
 

elindholm

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The proposed deal for JO includes Odom though. I don't think the Lakers would have any problem trading Bynum for JO if it meant the kept Kobe and Lamar.

I don't think the Lakers particularly want Odom. He's a good player and they're happy to have him, but if dealing him will improve the team, he's gone.
 

SunsTzu

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I don't think the Lakers particularly want Odom. He's a good player and they're happy to have him, but if dealing him will improve the team, he's gone.

I don't disagree. Even though I believe they'd have no problem trading him I think they feel JO isn't enough value for both Odom and Bynum.
 

elindholm

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I don't disagree. Even though I believe they'd have no problem trading him I think they feel JO isn't enough value for both Odom and Bynum.

Right, but that's because they're so high on Bynum. So they sure aren't trading him for Marion.
 

scoutmasterdave

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I don't think the Lakers particularly want Odom. He's a good player and they're happy to have him, but if dealing him will improve the team, he's gone.
I'm not sure the Lakers get any better even if it's an Odom-for-Marion deal. Odom handles the ball a substantial portion of the time in that offense, and Marion certainly can't replace that.
 

fordronken

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I think my head exploded while trying to decode that three-way with the Lakers. But again, there's no way that L. A. wants a Bynum-for-Marion deal. They can flip Bynum for Jermaine O'Neal any time they want.

The point was that they get to keep Odom. They'd probably be willing to trade Bynum and filler for O'Neal, they just don't want to include both guys, plus an expiring contract for any single player.

I still like my three way trade idea of Marion and the 29 pick going to Portland-- Randolph, Barbosa, KT and the Atlanta pick going to Minnesota--and Jarret Jack and Garnett coming to Phoenix.

Rodriguez
Roy
Marion
Aldridge
Oden

Foye
Barbosa
Davis
Randolph
KT

Nash/Jack
Bell/Belinelli
Hill/Jones
Garnett/Diaw
Stoudemire/Diaw
 

elindholm

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The point was that they get to keep Odom.

Right, I understand, I just think that Marion has less than half the value of O'Neal to them. So if they value Bynum more than Odom (as I think they do), and Bynum+Odom is too much for O'Neal (which evidently it is), then the more attractive half of that package is too much for Marion.

I still like my three way trade idea of Marion and the 29 pick going to Portland-- Randolph, Barbosa, KT and the Atlanta pick going to Minnesota--and Jarret Jack and Garnett coming to Phoenix.

Sounds worth pursuing to me. Minnesota probably won't get a better offer than that. But Marion would probably "refuse" to go to Portland too.... :rolleyes:
 

fordronken

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Sounds worth pursuing to me. Minnesota probably won't get a better offer than that. But Marion would probably "refuse" to go to Portland too.... :rolleyes:


See, but I think it's the perfect situation for him if you sell him on it. Basically, he's gonna be on a team with a ton of media attention (Oden) and three blue chippers (add Roy and Aldridge). Then, on top of that, since they're all young, he's the de facto leader, team captain and #1 guy that everybody looks up to. Plus, he's got a coach who would appreciate him (McMillan).

The problem with Marion, and this was apparent after reading "7 Seconds Or Less", is that Marion is essentially a spoiled child. He loves cartoons, he loves comic books, he feels underappreciated by his elders and he wants attention. He wants a lot of things in his own fantasy world, but if you actually say "Okay, you can go live by yourself and see how the world treats you," he gets scared and just wants to go home. The potential three way trade to Boston was essentially Marion "running away from home", except he actually curled up with a blanket on the lawn three houses down and was home by dinner. The difference is, in this metaphor, his parents don't love him unconditionally.
 

Chris_Sanders

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I wonder how many adult men on this board watch cartoons or read comic books?

I can think of five right off of the top of my head.
 

Chris_Sanders

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Oh and according to that book Amare is lazy and hated on the team.

Glad Jack has a solid handle on our players.
 

se7en

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See, but I think it's the perfect situation for him if you sell him on it. Basically, he's gonna be on a team with a ton of media attention (Oden) and three blue chippers (add Roy and Aldridge). Then, on top of that, since they're all young, he's the de facto leader, team captain and #1 guy that everybody looks up to. Plus, he's got a coach who would appreciate him (McMillan).

The problem with Marion, and this was apparent after reading "7 Seconds Or Less", is that Marion is essentially a spoiled child. He loves cartoons, he loves comic books, he feels underappreciated by his elders and he wants attention. He wants a lot of things in his own fantasy world, but if you actually say "Okay, you can go live by yourself and see how the world treats you," he gets scared and just wants to go home. The potential three way trade to Boston was essentially Marion "running away from home", except he actually curled up with a blanket on the lawn three houses down and was home by dinner. The difference is, in this metaphor, his parents don't love him unconditionally.


Awesome post. Bravo!
 

fordronken

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Oh and according to that book Amare is lazy and hated on the team.

Glad Jack has a solid handle on our players.

Jack McCallum never said Marion was a spoiled child. I did. That was my interpretation from his portrayal. Marion gets upset about there being an Amare Stoudemire bobble head night when he's hurt. Marion doesn't just watch cartoons, he is passionately drawn to them. It's what he does all day. He's even said that he doesn't hang out with anybody on the team because the younger guys go out and the older guys are all married. He's in a class and a world all his own.

He constantly complains about what he wants and what he could do, but when he's given an opportunity, he backs out and realizes how much better he has it where he is. I think he can only react two ways to the trade scenarios:

1- He gets worse. He sulks, whines and goes into a shell.
2- He grows up, realizes how good he's got it and plays with the passion of somebody who appreciates the life they have.

Don't get me wrong. I love Marion. He's at heart a great guy and he's a very good basketball player. But he has the emotional core of a young kid. Blame it on the culture and world that he was brought in to, blame it on his mother babying him or whatever else you want. He's not the only insecure basketball player in the world. But don't think for a minute that someone with that much natural talent, if they had a different personality, would be a much better player than the Shawn Marion we all know and love. Can you imagine if he had the drive and passion to go out there and work on his game? If he was driven enough to develop proper shot mechanics at a young age? If he could dribble and pass? He's this good with the kind of flaws that would be singled out by someone watching a middle school basketball game.
 

Chris_Sanders

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I understand...

That book just annoys me because NOTHING about Amare says lazy.

I don't doubt Marion is just a big kid. Deep down I believe a lot of us are.
 

elindholm

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Can you imagine if he had the drive and passion to go out there and work on his game? If he was driven enough to develop proper shot mechanics at a young age? If he could dribble and pass? He's this good with the kind of flaws that would be singled out by someone watching a middle school basketball game.

Ouch. Harsh, but right on target.
 

fordronken

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I understand...

That book just annoys me because NOTHING about Amare says lazy.

I don't doubt Marion is just a big kid. Deep down I believe a lot of us are.

I also think the Amare lazy thing was a misunderstanding. In my eyes, Stoudemire, once he got the second operation, was an unbelievably depressed guy. He was somebody who worked hard, played his ass off, had all the talent in the world, and then got a freak injury that required so much effort in ways he never expected to have to deal with. All of a sudden, for the first time in his life, he experienced doubt. When you take one of the most confident people on the planet and you give them doubt, that is a monumental blow. It's not that he wasn't comitted to his rehab. I think he was scared and I think he was depressed.
 
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az1965

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The problem with Marion, and this was apparent after reading "7 Seconds Or Less", is that Marion is essentially a spoiled child. He loves cartoons, he loves comic books, he feels underappreciated by his elders and he wants attention. He wants a lot of things in his own fantasy world, but if you actually say "Okay, you can go live by yourself and see how the world treats you," he gets scared and just wants to go home. The potential three way trade to Boston was essentially Marion "running away from home", except he actually curled up with a blanket on the lawn three houses down and was home by dinner. The difference is, in this metaphor, his parents don't love him unconditionally.
I love comic books... :mad:

I'm not sure if I believe everything in that book. A lot of it is opinion. You are taking it as a fact.
 

cly2tw

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Right, I understand, I just think that Marion has less than half the value of O'Neal to them. So if they value Bynum more than Odom (as I think they do), and Bynum+Odom is too much for O'Neal (which evidently it is), then the more attractive half of that package is too much for Marion.



Sounds worth pursuing to me. Minnesota probably won't get a better offer than that. But Marion would probably "refuse" to go to Portland too.... :rolleyes:


Portland might not mind. If Marion walks after one season, they'd get the cap to sign significant FA.
 

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