My Mail to Larry Coon (CBA Guru)

[playstation]

This is long, but very informative:

>From: Larry Coon <[email protected]>
>To: Playstation
>Subject: Re: NBA CBA Question
>Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2004 15:18:23 -0700
>
>Playstation wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>> I've read your collective bargaining page and have a question to
>>ask if you wouldn't mind. Regarding 'opting out' of a contract
>>generally, and Kobe Bryant specifically, what is the benefit of
>>such an action if one does not intend to leave ones team and
>>already makes the maximum amount allowed?
>>
>> I'm wondering because Kobe Bryant has repeatedly said he wants to
>>be a Laker for life, and yet he wishes to opt out. Wouldn't just
>>signing an extension work better? I was under the impression that
>>opting out then resigning would not allow as great of a salary over
>>the next 7 years in comparison to the dollar amount of simply
>>signing a 6 yr extension (plus one yr left on his old contract). So
>>what is this charade all about? Thanks for reading my question,
>>have a great day!
>
>Larry Coon wrote:
>
>An extra guaranteed year is the primary reason. If he signed an
>extension, it would cover 05-06 through 09-10. If he signed a new
>contract, it would cover 04-05 through 10-11.
>
>Raises would also be higher. If he signed an extension, the raise
>each year would be 12.5% of his 04-05 salary, but with a new
>contract, raises would be 12.5% of his 05-06 salary.
>
>The drawback is that the 04-05 salary in his current contract
>($14.625 million) is higher than he would be allowed to make in the
>first year of a new contract ($14.175 million, unless the salary cap
>goes above $47.25 million, which it won't).
>
>So putting it all together, here is what he would end up making with
>an extension:
>
>04-05 $14,625,000 (final year of current contract)
>05-06 $15,356,250
>06-07 $17,184,375
>07-08 $19,012,500
>08-09 $20,840,625
>09-10 $22,668,750
>Total $109,687,500
>
>(Note: The extension could be written with an 05-06 salary of up to
>$16,453,125, but would be amended downward to the above once the
>salary cap is announced in 2005. If the 2005 salary cap is above
>$51,187,500, then these numbers will be higher.)
>
>Here is what he would end up making with a new contract this summer:
>
>04-05 $14,175,000 (assuming salary cap less than $47.25 million)
>05-06 $15,946,875
>06-07 $17,718,750
>07-08 $19,490,625
>08-09 $21,262,500
>09-10 $23,034,375 (total = $111,628,125 through 09-10)
>10-11 $24,806,250
>Total $136,434,375
>
>So Kobe stands to make less in 04-05, but more in each season after
>that, plus he stands to pick up an extra guaranteed year. Comparing
>apples to apples, or money through 09-10, he stands to make
>$1,940,625 more. Comparing total guaranteed money, he stands to
>make $26,746,875 more by opting out and signing a new contract.
>
>
>Larry Coon

Playstation wrote:

thanks for the info bud, so do you know how much another team could offer him, assuming they have max room under the cap?

Larry Coon wrote:

His max will be 105% of his current salary ($14,175,000) or 30%
of the cap, whichever is greater. The cap won't be known until
July, so we won't know for sure until then, but it will have to
be above $47.25 million for Kobe to get more than $14,175,000.

Larry Coon


So the suns can offer 6yrs/$106.2M
Lakers offer 7yrs/$136.4M

Money talks, bs walks...

 

[elindholm]

So the suns can offer 6yrs/$106.2M
Lakers offer 7yrs/$136.4M

I'm sure Bryant is aware of these numbers. The average salary difference over the first six years is trivial, especially when one takes into account different costs of living, state tax rates, etc.

So the only real question is whether the seventh year is guaranteed. Assuming Bryant stays healthy, he'll still be commanding huge money in the summer of 2010, so signing a six-year deal would represent only a minor risk.

 

[George O'Brien]

Elite players are the only ones that get impacted by the percentage of the cap limits on new contracts.

It is reassuring that Kobe would only cost $109 million. I was afraid it was going to be really big bucks.

 

[playstation]

hey, in this world, if someone gives you guaranteed money, you take it, no questions asked. It would be REAL hard for ANYONE to talk away from 30M guaranteed money, but Kobe's a different kind of cat so you never know

 

[F-Dog]

hey, in this world, if someone gives you guaranteed money, you take it, no questions asked. It would be REAL hard for ANYONE to talk away from 30M guaranteed money, but Kobe's a different kind of cat so you never know

I can see how Kobe would want to wait and see what the team looks like before he re-signs.


Rumor has it that he'll demand that Phil Jackson and/or Shaq is dumped, too, and he won't have the leverage to do that until he's an UFA.

 

[elindholm]

hey, in this world, if someone gives you guaranteed money, you take it, no questions asked.

Boy does this argument get tired. The chain of logic seems to go like this:

1. I personally wouldn't give up guaranteed salary.
2. NBA players are all just like me.
3. Therefore, no NBA player would ever give up guaranteed salary.

We can all have our opinions on this train of thought, but in my opinion, step 2 is a bit of a weak link. There are innumerable cases of players opting out of a guaranteed year or two, or going to a team that can't pay them quite as much, or whatever. How much did Michael Olowokandi risk by insisting on his one-year terminal deal from the Clippers in '02-'03?

And besides, even "normal" people make the same kind of decision. It's not uncommon for someone to switch to a lower-paying job because they like it better, or it's in a nicer area, or it offers more room for advancement. Tenured college professors have "guaranteed" salaries, but many of them resign in order to pursue interests closer to their heart, even while knowing that they are risking unemployment. And so on.

Bryant will stay with the Lakers, but on the list of reasons why, a seventh guaranteed year probably isn't very high up.

 

[George O'Brien]

I tend to agree. Very few free agents moved primarily over money. In almost every case, the player was unhappy with something about their former team.

Of course that "something" might be a feeling that he is isn't appreciated as reflected by the money, but within range money isn't the main issue. In some ways it is frustrating because there might be free agents that would be attractive, but they will end up signing with their home team rather than take more money from someone else.

Let me give a classic example:

Jamaal Magloire ....... 7/18/00,10/29/03 4+3 $4,871,131+$20.25mill '07

Magloire could have been an unrestricted free agent this season and would have a shot at twice as much money. I'd take Magloire over Dampier or Camby any time. I have to figure that Magloire is happy in New Orleans or else he has the most incompetant agent in the business.

It is really hard to steal good players away from teams that treat their players well. BTW, for whatever other issues we might have with the Colangelos, they have done a pretty good job of hanging onto the free agents they wanted to keep. Their only big loss came because the player didn't like the coach - but since it was Danny Ainge maybe Dice was justified.

 

[SweetD]

I tend to agree. Very few free agents moved primarily over money. In almost every case, the player was unhappy with something about their former team.

What about:
Eddie Robinson
Gilbert Arenas
Alanzo Mourning
Trace McGrady

These are a few that I would say went for the money.

 

[George O'Brien]

What about:
Eddie Robinson
Gilbert Arenas
Alanzo Mourning
Trace McGrady

These are a few that I would say went for the money.

I don't know much about Eddie Robinson. He was not drafted by the Hornets and left after two seasons. I would guess they did not have his Bird rights.

The money for Arenas was not even close. He got a contract that started $3.5 million more than what he could get with the Warriors due to cap management problems and the absence of Bird rights.

Miami did not really want Mourning which is why they did not offer more than the veteran minimum.

The move that sent McGrady to Orlando was as much about who he was supposed to play with as money. I have been led to believe that he was not happy in Toronto.

The bottom line is that almost any player can be had if the team is willing to overpay. Washington overpaid for Arenas and New Jersey was insane to offer Mourning a four year starting at the MLE. But within reason, players who want to stay for teams that want them to stay generally get something worked out.