Nash Blurb from NBA.com

[Yuma]

Nash is the top point guard on the market and his numbers from last season bear that out. He was third in the league in assists (8.8 per game), second in free-throw percentage (.916) and he was sixth in assists-to-turnover ratio (3.29). Nash, who turned 30 in February, has been amazingly durable, playing in 242 of 246 regular season game in the past three seasons.


We needed a point guard, and got arguably the best available one! Can't argue so far with the new management.

 

[elindholm]

Technically, the "best available" point guard is Kidd, who is rumored to be on the trading block and could probably be had for the right price.

But I'm perfectly happy to have Nash instead.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Technically, the "best available" point guard is Kidd, who is rumored to be on the trading block and could probably be had for the right price.

But I'm perfectly happy to have Nash instead.

Reports out of NJ are that Kidd just had MICROFRACTURE SURGERY on his knee. If I am not mistaken, that surgery is usually for an arthritic condition where you have bone on bone contact.

So maybe the best available actually is Nash.

 

[Chaplin]

Reports out of NJ are that Kidd just had MICROFRACTURE SURGERY on his knee. If I am not mistaken, that surgery is usually for an arthritic condition where you have bone on bone contact.

Just like Penny Hardaway.

 

[cheng]

Nash hasnt played over 35 mpg over his whole career.

Remember how Dallas wanted to limit Nash minutes in the regular season to keep him fresh and away from injuries after Bibby dominated Nash in the playoffs?

 

[Bada0Bing]

We needed a point guard, and got arguably the best available one! Can't argue so far with the new management.

Point guard? I wouldn't mind trying to get Marbury, he's a pretty good point guard.

 

[George O'Brien]

Point guard? I wouldn't mind trying to get Marbury, he's a pretty good point guard.

Marbury is a pretty good shooting guard pretending to be a point guard. He rarely got assists to players closer to the basket than him except on pick and roll. Most of Stephon's assists come from pitch backs following drives to the basket.

Nash is more of classic point guard in getting the ball to people in a position to score.

 

[binkar]

Technically, the "best available" point guard is Kidd, who is rumored to be on the trading block and could probably be had for the right price.

But I'm perfectly happy to have Nash instead.

I know I am gonna take some heat for this but I think Nash is the better point gaurd for us. Although Jason is better defensively obviously and a better rebounder, I think Nash has something extremely important that the Suns desperatley needed. Someone who can spot up quickly and consistently hit a three.

With our surrent lineup we have alot of people who can score. But not much from the outside. Amare obviously gets his points in the paint, and shown and JJ are more of the 18 ft and in scorers although they can both hit the three its not with much consistency.

But Nash gives us the ability to stretch defenses by having to worry about him knocking down a three therefore opening up more room for our other guys to get the job done.

 

[George O'Brien]

I know I am gonna take some heat for this but I think Nash is the better point gaurd for us. Although Jason is better defensively obviously and a better rebounder, I think Nash has something extremely important that the Suns desperatley needed. Someone who can spot up quickly and consistently hit a three.

With our surrent lineup we have alot of people who can score. But not much from the outside. Amare obviously gets his points in the paint, and shown and JJ are more of the 18 ft and in scorers although they can both hit the three its not with much consistency.

But Nash gives us the ability to stretch defenses by having to worry about him knocking down a three therefore opening up more room for our other guys to get the job done.

I think you are on the money. Last year the Suns averaged 44.3% shooting, but only 34.6% for three. Opponents figured out rather quickly that the best way to stop the Suns was to pack the paint and dare them to shoot from the outside. The only three point shooters that the Suns had who were effective was Jacobsen at 41.7% and Barbosa at 39.5%. But Jacobsen only averaged 6 ppg and Barbosa 7.9 ppg.

Nash shot 40.5% for three, but overall shot 47% (he has a great mid range game) and scored 14.5 ppg. His scoring was down from the previous two years of 17.9 ppg and 17.7 ppg but he had more assists.

I think on the Suns Nash will end up scoring more than in Dallas. In any case, he will force opponents to defense the Suns differently than last year.

 

[elindholm]

I guess some of us have completely turned against Marbury, but saying that he's not a point guard is untenable. He is #8 all-time in assists per game. "He rarely got assists to players closer to the basket than him except on pick and roll" is a bizarre, custom-tailored criticism with no real meaning.

I agree Nash could be a better fit. But back when the Suns traded Kidd for Marbury, many people on this board argued passionately that Marbury was the best PG for this team. He's the same player now that he was then.

 

[SunsTzu]

I guess some of us have completely turned against Marbury, but saying that he's not a point guard is untenable. He is #8 all-time in assists per game. "He rarely got assists to players closer to the basket than him except on pick and roll" is a bizarre, custom-tailored criticism with no real meaning.

I agree Nash could be a better fit. But back when the Suns traded Kidd for Marbury, many people on this board argued passionately that Marbury was the best PG for this team. He's the same player now that he was then.

I think Marbury gets too much flak too. I also believe Marbury was the best PG for this team at the time we got him. At that time we had nobody that could score except Marion who as we all know should not be the #1 offensive option.

With the addition of Amare and JJ showing he is at his best with the ball in his hands I think Nash is what we need. I feel that someone able to run an up-tempo offense and hit the open jumper without dominating the ball is exactly the PG this team needs. I think Bibby would be a better fit but I'm happy with Nash.

 

[devilalum]

I think Marbury gets too much flak too. I also believe Marbury was the best PG for this team at the time we got him. At that time we had nobody that could score except Marion who as we all know should not be the #1 offensive option.

With the addition of Amare and JJ showing he is at his best with the ball in his hands I think Nash is what we need. I feel that someone able to run an up-tempo offense and hit the open jumper without dominating the ball is exactly the PG this team needs. I think Bibby would be a better fit but I'm happy with Nash.

One thing that drove me nuts is that Marbury can't throw a lob pass to save his life. In fact he is not all that great a passer in general.

He uses his ball handling ability to get assists but makes a lot of turnovers when he attempts even a marginally difficult pass.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

I liked Marbury then and I still like him now. He just needed to be surrounded by better shooters than the Suns had.

 

[devilalum]

I liked Marbury then and I still like him now. He just needed to be surrounded by better shooters than the Suns had.

Its always easier to focus on a players shortcomings once he's gone.

He never did anything to make me dislike him except get traded to a team I don't like.

 

[SunsTzu]

I liked Marbury then and I still like him now. He just needed to be surrounded by better shooters than the Suns had.

I agree. I think it's kind of weird how the Kidd version Suns had better shooters and fewer athletes while Marbury's version had better athletes but few shooters.

 

[Chaplin]

I loved Marbury and still do. I don't think people have soured on him as a player, they've soured on him as a type of player in a scheme like the Suns. He just doesn't work.

Kidd's problem was that he couldn't shoot and couldn't run the half-court. Marbury's problem was that he was a slightly better shooter but couldn't run the fast break.

We need a guy that can equally do both, and still be a good shooter.

Well, it looks like we got that guy.

 

[George O'Brien]

I guess some of us have completely turned against Marbury, but saying that he's not a point guard is untenable. He is #8 all-time in assists per game. "He rarely got assists to players closer to the basket than him except on pick and roll" is a bizarre, custom-tailored criticism with no real meaning.

I agree Nash could be a better fit. But back when the Suns traded Kidd for Marbury, many people on this board argued passionately that Marbury was the best PG for this team. He's the same player now that he was then.

I understood the Kidd for Marbury trade to be heavily related to the the Suns fear that Kidd would leave once his contract expired. Considering how close he came to signing with the Spurs, I think that fear was justified.

On a basketball level, I think the Colangelos made the mistake of thinking that Marbury's slow down style was dictated by the generally slow Nets (before Jefferson and riddled with injuries). I know I was surprised to find he couldn't run the break with any effectiveness.

Marbury's assists are very impressive, but they are more likely to be off drive and kick outs. It would be interesting to know how many assists he got passing the ball to Amare. Marbury gets more assists than someone like Iverson, but his style of play is a lot like AI's.

The main problem I had with Marbury was that he held onto the ball too much trying to make his own own shot, which is not what I think a real point guard should be doing. Unfortunately, many of the shots he decided to take were threes. Marbury is a very streaky outside shooter. Stephon has a career three point shooting percentage of 31.5% but with the Suns 20% of his shots were threes. We ragged on Marion for shooting so many three's, but Marion hit 34% of them this past season and shot 38.7% the prior year. Marbury has never hit more than 32.8% of his threes and shouldn't have been taking them.

Decision making is a key to what makes a solid point guard. I'm not convinced his decision making is that strong. This takes nothing from his skill at breaking down opponents off the dribble and creating havoc. He is a very exciting player, but just no my idea of point guard.

 

[Yuma]

Technically, the "best available" point guard is Kidd, who is rumored to be on the trading block and could probably be had for the right price.

But I'm perfectly happy to have Nash instead.

Sorry, the article I pulled the quote from was about unrestricted free agents. As a free agent, Nash is the best available point guard.

 

[George O'Brien]

Sorry, the article I pulled the quote from was about unrestricted free agents. As a free agent, Nash is the best available point guard.

There is an article in the Utah papers about how Arroyo is now the top FA point guard available. I like Arroyo, but he not even close to being a top rated PG.

BTW, in another article they said that Ostertag's agent has received a considerable number of inquiries. Who'd have thunk?

 

[elindholm]

Marbury gets more assists than someone like Iverson, but his style of play is a lot like AI's.

I agree.

The main problem I had with Marbury was that he held onto the ball too much trying to make his own own shot, which is not what I think a real point guard should be doing.

I think this is because the defense was sagging and his teammates weren't moving. Frankly I don't see what any point guard could do in that situation, other than pull up for a mid-range shot, which was a Marbury weakness. Point guards can't create shots for teammates who are standing around like statues, and they can't penetrate against a defense that has already collapsed.

Marbury is a very streaky outside shooter....
Marbury has never hit more than 32.8% of his threes and shouldn't have been taking them.

I agree. Marbury's poor outside shooting was something I was concerned about from the beginning, but at least it was an upgrade over Kidd's. And I definitely agree that he often took three-point shots when he shouldn't have, especially early in the possession.

In my opinion, however, that does not disqualify him from being considered a point guard, and a pretty darn good one at that.

 

[George O'Brien]

Marbury gets more assists than someone like Iverson, but his style of play is a lot like AI's.

I agree.

The main problem I had with Marbury was that he held onto the ball too much trying to make his own own shot, which is not what I think a real point guard should be doing.

I think this is because the defense was sagging and his teammates weren't moving. Frankly I don't see what any point guard could do in that situation, other than pull up for a mid-range shot, which was a Marbury weakness. Point guards can't create shots for teammates who are standing around like statues, and they can't penetrate against a defense that has already collapsed.

Marbury is a very streaky outside shooter....
Marbury has never hit more than 32.8% of his threes and shouldn't have been taking them.

I agree. Marbury's poor outside shooting was something I was concerned about from the beginning, but at least it was an upgrade over Kidd's. And I definitely agree that he often took three-point shots when he shouldn't have, especially early in the possession.

In my opinion, however, that does not disqualify him from being considered a point guard, and a pretty darn good one at that.

Since this is a discussion over the definition of a point guard, we will just have to agree to disagree.

One point about his teammates standing around, I'm afraid that is an inevitable byproduct of his style. Marbury's primary concern was to breakdown the opponent. Since this would draw another defender to pick him up, it would leave the defender's man open. Marbury wouldn't know where the open may was if that guy was moving around. In that context, the focus would be on spacing rather than movement.

Players are more inclined to move around if the ball is passed to them when they are open. My general impression was that Marbury seemed to prefer guys to stay put rather than be moving.

 

[binkar]

I guess some of us have completely turned against Marbury, but saying that he's not a point guard is untenable. He is #8 all-time in assists per game. "He rarely got assists to players closer to the basket than him except on pick and roll" is a bizarre, custom-tailored criticism with no real meaning.

I agree Nash could be a better fit. But back when the Suns traded Kidd for Marbury, many people on this board argued passionately that Marbury was the best PG for this team. He's the same player now that he was then.

Thats true people did argue that Steph was the best point gaurd for our team at the time, including myself. But the team has changed alot since then by now having to potential big time scorers in Amare and JJ something the suns didnt have then.

 

[Errntknght]

Eric, "I guess some of us have completely turned against Marbury, but saying that he's not a point guard is untenable. He is #8 all-time in assists per game. "He rarely got assists to players closer to the basket than him except on pick and roll" is a bizarre, custom-tailored criticism with no real meaning."

I understand the meaning of those words just fine, and agree with the idea they represent. Nearly all of Marbury's assists were due to kick-out passes off his drives to the hoop. There is nothing wrong with that but it behooves you to surround him with good jump shooters to maximize his effectiveness. I do think the right coach could get him to diversify his game to some extent while still using his great penetration skills - in fact, I'd try to diversify around the threat he poses on the pick and roll/fade. I posted many messages about this subject of Skiles and FJ's lack of imagination in building around Marbs strengths.

I'm not at all turning on Marbury... I think he's a first rate guard and plays his butt off. He was not a good choice for the Suns however since they did not commit themselves to building a team around his strengths - nor did they do it with Kidd. Another poster remarked on the irony that the Suns got the supporting troops backwards between the two PGs. It's not ironical, it's due to the fact that BC and the rest of the brain trust have no clue how to put a team together - they love to make deals and pat themselves on the back, and to save money by hiring cheap, bad coaches.

 

[coloradosun]

Marbury is a pretty good shooting guard pretending to be a point guard. He rarely got assists to players closer to the basket than him except on pick and roll. Most of Stephon's assists come from pitch backs following drives to the basket.

Nash is more of classic point guard in getting the ball to people in a position to score.

George you always have the best points. I think the move to get Marbury was in response to how Iverson carried his team to the finals against the Lakers a couple of years back. His acquistion was before we could even fathom the idea of a product like Amare ever wearing a Suns uniform. Amare made Marbury obselete.

 

[Joe Mama]

I'm not at all turning on Marbury... I think he's a first rate guard and plays his butt off. He was not a good choice for the Suns however since they did not commit themselves to building a team around his strengths - nor did they do it with Kidd. Another poster remarked on the irony that the Suns got the supporting troops backwards between the two PGs. It's not ironical, it's due to the fact that BC and the rest of the brain trust have no clue how to put a team together - they love to make deals and pat themselves on the back, and to save money by hiring cheap, bad coaches.

the Phoenix Suns brought in Penny Hardaway to run with Jason Kidd. In fact it was Jason Kidd himself who wanted Hardaway. That plan only backfired because of Hardaway's health or lack thereof. If Amare Stoudemire had been available to the Phoenix Suns during Jason Kidd's tenure here the Suns would have jumped at him in a heartbeat. The fact is that the Phoenix Suns have always wanted an up-tempo, open court offense. The players they have now that fit into that will not available to them when Jason Kidd was here.

Joe Mama