Nazr Mohammed

elindholm · Jun 13, 2005

I haven't exactly been following his career closely, but it seems that Mohammed has developed a weird pattern of playing very well for his first few months with a new team, then going into a long funk until his next change of address.

I remember when the Hawks first got him, and he put up some good numbers, and Hawk fans were thrilled. "Nazr wants to stay in Atlanta!" they'd crow. And stay he did, but come the next year, he wasn't nearly as impressive. Eventually they lost interest him enough that he was shipped to the Knicks, where he once again played well for a while. But it was not to last. The trade to the Spurs didn't raise that many eyebrows at the time, because it looked like two role-playing backup big men changing squads for, who knows, chemistry and/or financial reasons.

But now Mohammed is at it again, looking like a legitimate NBA center in his honeymoon with his new team. What's the deal? Is my perception off here?

Joe Mama · Jun 13, 2005

I was with you until that line about the New York Knicks/San Antonio Spurs trade involving moment not raising many eyebrows. I know I was really upset. I know that almost every media person covering the trades said that Isaiah Thomas got reamed in the deal. Of course that has become such commonplace that it probably wouldn't raise many eyebrows.

I've likened that trade to the one that sent Rasheed Wallace to the Detroit Pistons last year. You really did not help the other teams in the trade, yet it made a Finals favorite much stronger.

Joe Mama

thegrahamcrackr · Jun 13, 2005

I complained about how the deal cemented the Spurs as the favorite. He was the piece that would put them over the top IMO.

JPlay · Jun 13, 2005

Isiah is an idiot and now the rest of the league is paying for it. The Spurs don't even play Rasho anymore.

elindholm · Jun 13, 2005

Hmm, okay, I guess it was just me who didn't think much of the deal at the time. I had Mohammed's "post-new-team" play in mind.

F-Dog · Jun 13, 2005

I wasn't that impressed with that trade at the time, and I'm still not impressed. Mohammad is a spare, a fill-in--he's probably worth what he's making, but the difference between him and Nesterovic is not why the Spurs are smashing everybody in the playoffs. Frankly, the Suns match up better with Mohammad than they do with Nesterovic.

Tim Duncan and the Spurs system can make players look better than they actually are (case #2: Beno Udrih). Atlanta and the Knicks traded Mohammad because he's not a difference-maker, and I don't think that's changed in the last three months. :shrug:

George O'Brien · Jun 13, 2005

Issah was basically picking up draft picks. I expect a major fire sale of players as he tries to start over.

As for Mohammed, I think this is the first time he's played for a top team. It is easier to stay motiated when getting a chance at a title. Even the Timberwolves played well for a year.

fordronken · Jun 13, 2005

F-Dog said:
Frankly, the Suns match up better with Mohammad than they do with Nesterovic.

Are you kidding? Did you see how many times Amare got stripped my Mohammed in the post? Did you see Mohammed scoring over Amare in the few shots he got? Have you seen Nesterovic play? I think Upper Deck is releasing a new series of cards called "People dunking on Rasho".

Simply put, Rasho plays outside and Mohammed plays inside. Guess which one hurts the Suns more.

Cheesebeef · Jun 13, 2005

fordronken said:
Are you kidding? Did you see how many times Amare got stripped my Mohammed in the post? Did you see Mohammed scoring over Amare in the few shots he got? Have you seen Nesterovic play? I think Upper Deck is releasing a new series of cards called "People dunking on Rasho".

Simply put, Rasho plays outside and Mohammed plays inside. Guess which one hurts the Suns more.

totally agree.

thegrahamcrackr · Jun 13, 2005

fordronken said:
Are you kidding? Did you see how many times Amare got stripped my Mohammed in the post? Did you see Mohammed scoring over Amare in the few shots he got? Have you seen Nesterovic play? I think Upper Deck is releasing a new series of cards called "People dunking on Rasho".

Simply put, Rasho plays outside and Mohammed plays inside. Guess which one hurts the Suns more.

Agree as well.

F-Dog · Jun 13, 2005

I guess none of you remember Rasho dumping 20/10 on the Suns repeatedly.

I can't remember Rasho having a bad game against the Suns, although I'm sure you'll remind me if it happened.

He's like Malik Rose or (this year) Brent Barry--no matter how bad he was playing at the time, he would always, always beat the crap out of Phoenix.

Mohammad played well, but he didn't dominate the Suns or anything like that. Even Malik Rose has had better games against the Suns than Mohammad had.

Cheesebeef · Jun 13, 2005

F-Dog said:
I guess none of you remember Rasho dumping 20/10 on the Suns repeatedly.

I can't remember Rasho having a bad game against the Suns, although I'm sure you'll remind me if it happened. He's like Malik Rose or (this year) Brent Barry--no matter how bad he was playing at the time, he would always, always beat the crap out of Phoenix.

that 8 points and 4 boards against us the first time we played this year were a killer! Same with those 12 and 6 filling in for Duncan during our 3rd meeting with the Spurs this year.

Rasho was a softy - he didn't provide the physical presence that Nazr has. I cringed when I saw that deal made. Another guy with size who can actually play was disaster was for us and the rest of the league.

The biggest bitch about the Spurs is that they are relatively young - we're gonna be butting our heads with these guys for the next half decade.

thegrahamcrackr · Jun 13, 2005

12/28/04 - 22 min, 8 points, 4 rebounds, 4 fouls
1/21/05 - 12 minutes, 6 points, no boards (injured in game)
3/9/05 - 21 minutes, 12 points, 6 boards, 5 fouls

fordronken · Jun 13, 2005

thegrahamcrackr said:
12/28/04 - 22 min, 8 points, 4 rebounds, 4 fouls
1/21/05 - 12 minutes, 6 points, no boards (injured in game)
3/9/05 - 21 minutes, 12 points, 6 boards, 5 fouls

Can we put this argument to bed now?

F-Dog · Jun 13, 2005

thegrahamcrackr said:
12/28/04 - 22 min, 8 points, 4 rebounds, 4 fouls
1/21/05 - 12 minutes, 6 points, no boards (injured in game)
3/9/05 - 21 minutes, 12 points, 6 boards, 5 fouls

5/22/05 - 23 min, 9 points, 7 rebounds, 5 fouls
5/24/05 - 28 min, 11 points, 8 rebounds
5/28/05 - 19 min, 9 points, 4 rebounds, 4 fouls
5/30/05 - 24 min, 8 points, 8 rebounds
6/01/05 - 17 min, 4 points, 2 rebounds, 5 fouls

Trust me, Nazr Mohammad isn't the reason the Suns lost to the Spurs.

Cheesebeef · Jun 13, 2005

F-Dog said:
5/22/05 - 23 min, 9 points, 7 rebounds, 5 fouls
5/24/05 - 28 min, 11 points, 8 rebounds
5/28/05 - 19 min, 9 points, 4 rebounds, 4 fouls
5/30/05 - 24 min, 8 points, 8 rebounds
6/01/05 - 17 min, 4 points, 2 rebounds, 5 fouls

Trust me, Nazr Mohammad isn't the reason the Suns lost to the Spurs.

uh - nice misdirect. Where are those 20 and 10 stats F-Dog? No one said "Nazr Mohammed was the reason the Suns lost to the Spurs" - are you saying that Rasho was? Seems to be partially that you are - and that's really stupid.

fordronken · Jun 13, 2005

F-Dog said:
5/22/05 - 23 min, 9 points, 7 rebounds, 5 fouls
5/24/05 - 28 min, 11 points, 8 rebounds
5/28/05 - 19 min, 9 points, 4 rebounds, 4 fouls
5/30/05 - 24 min, 8 points, 8 rebounds
6/01/05 - 17 min, 4 points, 2 rebounds, 5 fouls

Trust me, Nazr Mohammad isn't the reason the Suns lost to the Spurs.

That's not what we're saying. However, they traded an overpriced, undersized big man for an expiring contract which just happened to fill the only gaping hole they had fairly adequately.

Cheesebeef · Jun 13, 2005

fordronken said:
That's not what we're saying. However, they traded an overpriced, undersized big man for an expiring contract which just happened to fill the only gaping hole they had fairly adequately.

you gotta love when someone makes an outrageous comment, gets called on it then makes up and projects an argument from the other side to try and discredit those who initially questioned the outrageous comment in the first place.

F-Dog · Jun 13, 2005

cheesebeef said:
uh - nice misdirect. Where are those 20 and 10 stats F-Dog? No one said "Nazr Mohammed was the reason the Suns lost to the Spurs" - are you saying that Rasho was? Seems to be partially that you are - and that's really stupid.

From last year:

1/23/04 - 28 min, 16 points (7-16), 9 reb, 3 ass
5/06/04 - 32 min, 22 points (11-14), 13 reb, 5 ass

The Suns lost that first game 86-84, so at least in that one game, I would conjecture that, yes, Rasho was the reason the Suns lost that game.

Nazr hasn't done anything like that to the Suns yet. That's all I was trying to say.

fordronken · Jun 13, 2005

F-Dog said:
From last year:

1/23/04 - 28 min, 16 points (7-16), 9 reb, 3 ass
5/06/04 - 32 min, 22 points (11-14), 13 reb, 5 ass

The Suns lost that first game 86-84, so at least in that one game, I would conjecture that, yes, Rasho was the reason the Suns lost that game.

Nazr hasn't done anything like that to the Suns yet. That's all I was trying to say.

So, if he'd had 3 points and they lost 86-84 would you have said the same thing? Gimme a break. Every player is the reason they won the game. Steve Nash lost the game because he should have scored four more points. Arguments like that make me want to throw up.

Cheesebeef · Jun 13, 2005

F-Dog said:
From last year:

1/23/04 - 28 min, 16 points (7-16), 9 reb, 3 ass
5/06/04 - 32 min, 22 points (11-14), 13 reb, 5 ass

The Suns lost that first game 86-84, so at least in that one game, I would conjecture that, yes, Rasho was the reason the Suns lost that game.

Nazr hasn't done anything like that to the Suns yet. That's all I was trying to say.

did they only play twice last year?

F-Dog · Jun 21, 2005

fordronken said:
So, if he'd had 3 points and they lost 86-84 would you have said the same thing? Gimme a break. Every player is the reason they won the game. Steve Nash lost the game because he should have scored four more points. Arguments like that make me want to throw up.

If he'd had 3 points on 12 shots in 32 minutes, then yes, of course. Do you have a problem with the whole concept (Win Shares, etc.), or just the way I used it?

The Spurs won the other game by 20, but Tim Duncan didn't play, and Nesterovic led his team in points, rebounds, assists, blocks and steals. Perhaps he should get special credit for that one instead?

cheesebeef said:
did they only play twice last year?

Umm, I was asked for 20/10, and those were the games where Nesterovic had 20/10 or close to it. If you want to see unimpactful stats from Nesterovic, maybe you can refer back to his stats from this year's games.

Joe Mama · Jun 21, 2005

F-Dog, you are digging up some golden oldies today.

Joe Mama

F-Dog · Jun 22, 2005

Joe Mama said:
F-Dog, you are digging up some golden oldies today.

Joe Mama

Well, I don't exactly post every day, so occasionally I have to dip back into page 2 to catch up. :shrug:

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