NBA Cores

[Griffin]

I would define a core player loosely as a key asset that a team is built around or is planning to build around. It may be an established all-star or it may be a highly valued young player with all-star potential. He doesn't have to be a franchise player yet, but should have that potential.

It's been pointed out numerous times that the Suns no longer have a core player on their roster. This doesn't necessarily mean that none of the current Suns players will become a part of some future core (i.e. Dragic, Beasley, Johnson, Marshall, Morris), but that as it stands right now everyone is very much tradeable and their long-term future with this franchise is very much in question.

So it begs the question: is it rare for a franchise to find itself in this predicament? It seems most teams either still have an old established core made up of all-stars and/or franchise players, a completely new core composed of players with high potential and future all-stars/franchise players, or some combination of those.

Going into this season, the only other team without a real core is Magic, with the Rockets and Mavericks down to one last player from an older core. Of course both Phoenix and Orlando parted ways with their last remaining piece of an old core this summer. It seems that teams that find themselves without a core are those that held on to part of their old core without acquiring any new pieces to build a new core with.

Here's my quick (and very much subjective) assessment of every NBA team's current core makeup. I tried to include all recently drafted players (top 10 for 2012) who still have potential to become solid core players if not superstars.

• Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo
• Nets: Joe Johnson, Lopez, Deron Williams
• Knicks: Anthony, Chandler, Stoudemire
• 76ers: Bynum, Turner
• Raptors: Bargnani, DeRozan, Ross, Valanciunas
• Bulls: Boozer, Deng, Noah, Rose
• Cavs: Irving, Thompson, Waiters
• Pistons: Knight, Monroe, Drummond
• Pacers: Granger, Hibbert, West
• Bucks: Ellis, Jennings
• Hawks: Horford, Josh Smith
• Bobcats: Biyombo?, Kidd-Gilchrist, Walker
• Heat: Bosh, James, Wade
• Magic:
• Wizards: Beal, Okafor, Vesely?, Wall
• Nuggets: Gallinari, Iguodala, Lawson
• T'Wolves: Love, Rubio, Derrick Williams
• Thunder: Durant, Harden, Ibaka, Westbrook
• Blazers: Aldridge, Batum, Lillard
• Jazz: Favors, Kanter, Jefferson, Millsap
• Warriors: Barnes, Curry, Lee
• Clippers: Griffin, Paul
• Lakers: Bryant, Gasol, Howard, Nash
• Suns:
• Kings: Cousins, Evans, Robinson, Thornton?
• Mavs: Nowitzki
• Rockets: Martin
• Grizzlies: Gasol, Gay, Randolph
• Hornets: Davis, Gordon, Rivers
• Spurs: Duncan, Ginobili, Parker

 

[JCSunsfan]

Isn't Deandre Jordan part of the Clippers core?

Suns: Dragic, Gortat, Scola

I am not sure how you define a core player. If its a player you are going to build around (or have correctly built around) there are many on that list that should not be there (Mark Gasol, Anthony Randolf, Barnes, Lee, Ellis, Jennings, Okafor , Vesley, Chandler, Lopez, DRozan, Ross etc) I don't think any of us would think those players are good enough for our team to build around. Almost everyone on that list is easily tradeable. Dragic, Scola, and Gortat are in the same category with about half the players on the list.

The Suns have talent that is very similar to much of the league, they just don't know if they can put it together yet.

 

[Phrazbit]

Very fair list. Only thing that stands out as being a bit off is Okafor in Washington. I wouldnt call him a core player, the guy was a salary dump for New Orleans.

 

[Mainstreet]

I guess my thought when looking over the list, does one player make a core? I admit it is hard to deny Nowitzki but I think a core should consist of more than one key player.

 

[Neo]

The Suns have talent that is very similar to much of the league, they just don't know if they can put it together yet.

The Suns have talent that is similar to some of the bottom teams in the league. We have 4 players with above average PER, but two of them are half a point or less above average. We are a mediocre to poor team from a player talent perspective.

Add that to the fact that we don't know if we can put that mediocre core together and we are not going to be very good any time soon.

 

[Phrazbit]

I guess my thought when looking over the list, does one player make a core? I admit it is hard to deny Nowitzki but I think a core should consist of more than one key player.

I Dirk should qualify as a core player, even if the complimentary parts are not there.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I Dirk should qualify as a core player, even if the complimentary parts are not there.

I think the complementary parts are there (not sure about the complimentary parts but that's another story) and I agree that Dirk is still a core player. But, a core of one isn't enough even if that one is the greatest player in the game (and, he's not THE greatest).

Steve

 

[KloD]

I always thought of the core as the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd scoring options. Although in some rare cases a very strong defensive player may replace the 3rd scoring option.

 

[overseascardfan]

I would define a core player loosely as a key asset that a team is built around or is planning to build around. It may be an established all-star or it may be a highly valued young player with all-star potential. He doesn't have to be a franchise player yet, but should have that potential.

It's been pointed out numerous times that the Suns no longer have a core player on their roster. This doesn't necessarily mean that none of the current Suns players will become a part of some future core (i.e. Dragic, Beasley, Johnson, Marshall, Morris), but that as it stands right now everyone is very much tradeable and their long-term future with this franchise is very much in question.

So it begs the question: is it rare for a franchise to find itself in this predicament? It seems most teams either still have an old established core made up of all-stars and/or franchise players, a completely new core composed of players with high potential and future all-stars/franchise players, or some combination of those.

Going into this season, the only other team without a real core is Magic, with the Rockets and Mavericks down to one last player from an older core. Of course both Phoenix and Orlando parted ways with their last remaining piece of an old core this summer. It seems that teams that find themselves without a core are those that held on to part of their old core without acquiring any new pieces to build a new core with.

Here's my quick (and very much subjective) assessment of every NBA team's current core makeup. I tried to include all recently drafted players (top 10 for 2012) who still have potential to become solid core players if not superstars.

• Celtics: Garnett, Pierce, Rondo
• Nets: Joe Johnson, Lopez, Deron Williams
• Knicks: Anthony, Chandler, Stoudemire
• 76ers: Bynum, Turner
• Raptors: Bargnani, DeRozan, Ross, Valanciunas
• Bulls: Boozer, Deng, Noah, Rose
• Cavs: Irving, Thompson, Waiters
• Pistons: Knight, Monroe, Drummond
• Pacers: Granger, Hibbert, West
• Bucks: Ellis, Jennings
• Hawks: Horford, Josh Smith
• Bobcats: Kidd-Gilchrist, Walker
• Heat: Bosh, James, Wade
• Magic:
• Wizards: Beal, Okafor, Vesely?, Wall
• Nuggets: Gallinari, Iguodala, Lawson
• T'Wolves: Love, Rubio, Derrick Williams
• Thunder: Durant, Harden, Ibaka, Westbrook
• Blazers: Aldridge, Batum, Lillard
• Jazz: Favors, Kanter, Jefferson, Millsap
• Warriors: Barnes, Curry, Lee
• Clippers: Griffin, Paul
• Lakers: Bryant, Gasol, Howard, Nash
• Suns:
• Kings: Biyombo?, Cousins, Evans, Robinson, Thornton?
• Mavs: Nowitzki
• Rockets: Martin
• Grizzlies: Gasol, Gay, Randolph
• Hornets: Davis, Gordon, Rivers
• Spurs: Duncan, Ginobili, Parker

Couple of corrections: Biyombo plays for CHA so he would be part of their core and Jrue Holiday is definitely part of PHI's core, more so than Turner at least.

 

[asudevil83]

Isn't Deandre Jordan part of the Clippers core?

Suns: Dragic, Gortat, Scola

I am not sure how you define a core player. If its a player you are going to build around (or have correctly built around) there are many on that list that should not be there (Mark Gasol, Anthony Randolf, Barnes, Lee, Ellis, Jennings, Okafor , Vesley, Chandler, Lopez, DRozan, Ross etc) I don't think any of us would think those players are good enough for our team to build around. Almost everyone on that list is easily tradeable. Dragic, Scola, and Gortat are in the same category with about half the players on the list.

The Suns have talent that is very similar to much of the league, they just don't know if they can put it together yet.

to me a core player isnt necessarily a player you build around, but more like a player you build your team with....someone you see as a long term investment.

and in that regard, i dont consider Gortat or Scola a core player.

IMO, when gortat becomes a FA, he will be gone. he'll get more money than he's worth and walk away. and he's a few years older than what we need as a completely rebuilding team. and Scola, well he's just a nice trading piece when he becomes available.

right now, Dragic is a core piece. we've invested in him as a starting PG for the foreseeable future. and the hope is that Beasley will become part of our core....but right now he's an experiment. Dudley is kinda part of our core, but more as a core bench player. i dont see him as staring caliber, but an extremely valuable bench player.

 

[mojorizen7]

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Barkley/KJ/Majerle >>> Nash/Amare/Marion

 

[Griffin]

Isn't Deandre Jordan part of the Clippers core?

Perhaps.

there are many on that list that should not be there (Mark Gasol, Anthony Randolf, Barnes, Lee, Ellis, Jennings, Okafor , Vesley, Chandler, Lopez, DRozan, Ross etc) I don't think any of us would think those players are good enough for our team to build around.

It was Zach Randolph not Anthony Randolph. But anyway, being a core player for one team doesn't necessarily mean that player would automatically be a core player for another. For example, Marc Gasol was certainly considered a major part of Memphis' future when he was acquired and he is still their centerpiece. Same with Brook Lopez. Now if either was traded elsewhere, he may not be viewed the same way. Okafor is a good example and I should not have included him on that list now that he's in NO, but he was certainly a core player for Charlotte.

Ross is on there because he was drafted in top 10 this year, but that's a completely arbitrary distinction on my part. I didn't feel like evaluating each draft pick individually so I drew the line at top 10. But he's no better prospect than Marshall is, imo. On the other hand, Drummond (#9) is.

But even if you were to remove the more questionable choices from the list, it still leaves the Suns and Magic as the only teams without a single genuine core player, imo.

Very fair list. Only thing that stands out as being a bit off is Okafor in Washington. I wouldnt call him a core player, the guy was a salary dump for New Orleans.

Yes, as I mentioned above, I should not have included Okafor.

I guess my thought when looking over the list, does one player make a core? I admit it is hard to deny Nowitzki but I think a core should consist of more than one key player.

Well, Nowitzki was part of their old core and he's still there, but everyone else is gone. They tried to retool around him (Mayo, Brand) but they didn't add any new core players. Once Nowitzki is gone, they may find themselves in the same position as the Suns are in right now. Same with Houston and Martin.

Couple of corrections: Biyombo plays for CHA so he would be part of their core and Jrue Holiday is definitely part of PHI's core, more so than Turner at least.

Not sure why I placed Biyombo with Kings. As for Holiday, I actually thought about him but I considered him borderline and his numbers actually went down last year. But he is still very young, so yeah, he probably should be on there.

 

[elindholm]

The Suns' core is their top draft pick next summer. No one else is relevant.

 

[elindholm]

In case anyone is interested, I went through a similar exercise ten years ago, I think for the start of the 2002-03 season. I took the three players who seemed to be most central to each team's immediate future and looked at their draft positions. The idea was to get a sense of how much more likely it is to get "core" players early in the draft.


Boston Celtics
Paul Pierce 10, 1998
Antoine Walker 6, 1996
Kenny Anderson 2, 1991

Miami Heat
Alonzo Mourning 2, 1992
Eddie Jones 10, 1994
Brian Grant 8, 1994

New Jersey Nets
Jason Kidd 2, 1994
Kenyon Martin 1, 2000
Keith Van Horn 2, 1997

New York Knicks
Latrell Sprewell 24, 1992
Allan Houston 11, 1993
Marcus Camby 2, 1996

Orlando Magic
Tracy McGrady 9, 1997
Grant Hill 3, 1994
Mike Miller 5, 2000

Philadelphia 76ers
Allen Iverson 1, 1996
Dikembe Mutombo 4, 1991
Derrick Coleman 1, 1990

Washington Wizards
Michael Jordan 3, 1984
Richard Hamilton 7, 1999
Chris Whitney 47, 1993


Atlanta Hawks
Shareef Abdur-Rahim 3, 1996
Jason Terry 10, 1999
Nazr Mohammed 29, 1998

Chicago Bulls
Jalen Rose 13, 1994
Travis Best 23, 1995
Tyson Chandler 2, 2001

Cleveland Cavaliers
Andre Miller 8, 1999
Lamond Murray 7, 1994
Wesley Person 23, 1994

Detroit Pistons
Jerry Stackhouse 3, 1995
Ben Wallace undrafted
Clifford Robinson 36, 1989

Indiana Pacers
Jermaine O’Neal 17, 1996
Reggie Miller 11, 1987
Brad Miller undrafted

Milwaukee Bucks
Ray Allen 5, 1996
Glenn Robinson 1, 1994
Sam Cassell 24, 1993

New Orleans Hornets
Baron Davis 3, 1999
Jamal Mashburn 4, 1993
Elden Campbell 27, 1990

Toronto Raptors
Vince Carter 5, 1998
Antonio Davis 45, 1990
Morris Peterson 21, 2000


Dallas Mavericks
Dirk Nowitzki 9, 1998
Michael Finley 21, 1995
Steve Nash 15, 1996

Denver Nuggets
Antonio McDyess 2, 1995
Juwan Howard 5, 1994
James Posey 18, 1999

Houston Rockets
Steve Francis 2, 1999
Cuttino Mobley 41, 1998
Maurice Taylor 14, 1997

Memphis Grizzlies
Pau Gasol 3, 2001
Shane Battier 6, 2001
Jason Williams 7, 1998

Minnesota Timberwolves
Kevin Garnett 5, 1995
Wally Szczerbiak 6, 1999
Terrell Brandon 11, 1991

San Antonio Spurs
Tim Duncan 1, 1997
David Robinson 1, 1987
Tony Parker 28, 2001

Utah Jazz
Karl Malone 13, 1985
John Stockton 16, 1984
Donyell Marshall 4, 1994


Golden State Warriors
Antawn Jamison 4, 1998
Jason Richardson 5, 2001
Danny Fortson 10, 1997

Los Angeles Clippers
Elton Brand 1, 1999
Lamar Odom 4, 1999
Michael Olowokandi 1, 1998

Los Angeles Lakers
Shaquille O’Neal 1, 1992
Kobe Bryant 13, 1996
Derek Fisher 24, 1996

Phoenix Suns
Stephon Marbury 4, 1996
Shawn Marion 9, 1999
Penny Hardaway 3, 1993

Portland Trailblazers
Rasheed Wallace 4, 1995
Bonzi Wells 11, 1998
Damon Stoudamire 7, 1995

Sacramento Kings
Chris Webber 1, 1993
Mike Bibby 2, 1998
Peja Stojakovic 14, 1996

Seattle Supersonics
Gary Payton 2, 1990
Rashard Lewis 32, 1998
Brent Barry 15, 1995


draft position 1 2 3 4 5 6-7 8-9 10-11

number of
“core” players 10 10 7 7 6 7 5 8

% of total
(this range) 11% 11% 8% 8% 7% 8% 6% 9%

% of total
(cumulative) 11% 23% 31% 39% 46% 54% 60% 69%




draft position 12-14 15-18 19-23 24-29 30-43 44-58 undrafted

number of
“core” players 5 5 4 6 3 2 2

% of total
(this range) 6% 6% 5% 7% 3% 2% 2%

% of total
(cumulative) 75% 80% 85% 92% 95% 98% 100%

 

[Michael]

I don't think Boozer is a core player for the Bulls. He was signed to be part of the core, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was released (he seems hard to trade...) in order to free some cap space to extend Taj Gibson.

 

[Joe L]

IMO, a core player is anyone that is part of a team nucleus. It can be a franchise player, or a key piece of the puzzle that lends part to the identity of the team (i.e. Defensive specialist). That core player is also part of a long term plan that should be considered irreplaceable. A lot of teams have that one guy who is not considered a star, but is just as important to the success of that team.

 

[95pro]

IMO, a core player is anyone that is part of a team nucleus. It can be a franchise player, or a key piece of the puzzle that lends part to the identity of the team (i.e. Defensive specialist). That core player is also part of a long term plan that should be considered irreplaceable. A lot of teams have that one guy who is not considered a star, but is just as important to the success of that team.

i would consider ibaka a core player but not perkins. wbu?

 

[elindholm]

IMO, a core player is anyone that is part of a team nucleus.

What a coincidence -- I'd say that a nucleus player is someone who is part of the team core. So do we agree or disagree?

 

[mojorizen7]

IMO, a core player is anyone that is part of a team nucleus. It can be a franchise player, or a key piece of the puzzle that lends part to the identity of the team (i.e. Defensive specialist). That core player is also part of a long term plan that should be considered irreplaceable. A lot of teams have that one guy who is not considered a star, but is just as important to the success of that team.

 

[Errntknght]

Eric, I went through the core guys list you put up for all the teams and for each team I sorted all the players by minutes played per game, for each team. In two thirds of the cases the three guys with the most PT were your core players and usually the third one you listed had the fourth most PT when not third. In every case but 2 the highest two PT guys were among your 3 core players, typically the first two you listed. I used the stats from year 01-02 so in a few cases players had changed teams before the start of the 02 season - Scottie Pippen for example. There might have been a rookie who didn't show up in my listing among them.

Its hardly shocking that there was a close correlation but I was a bit surprised it was as close as it was. In many of the cases where the third highest PT player was not your choice for a core guy, he was not far off. Of course, there was Ira Newble...

 

[elindholm]

Eric, I went through the core guys list you put up for all the teams and for each team I sorted all the players by minutes played per game, for each team. In two thirds of the cases the three guys with the most PT were your core players and usually the third one you listed had the fourth most PT when not third. In every case but 2 the highest two PT guys were among your 3 core players, typically the first two you listed.

I don't remember how I came up with the names. I think two or three people were in on the discussion, and there may have been some adjustments. So if it worked out well, it may have been dumb luck, or it may be that there are others (whose identities I can unfortunately no longer remember) who deserve the credit.

 

[tobiazz]

Houston Rockets
Steve Francis 2, 1999
Cuttino Mobley 41, 1998
Maurice Taylor 14, 1997

Ouch.