NBA draft good or bad for Calipari and UK?

[Russ Smith]

Multiple things that I personally see as bad for UK.

1) Daniel Orton reportely told multiple NBA execs he wishes he'd gone to Kansas, he thinks he fit the system better there. Now I don't buy that for a second he would have turned pro from KU too, but what he means is he thinks he would have played more minutes than the 13 per game he got at UK. That might not be true with Aldrich there. He would have touched the ball more because KU uses the post more than UK did. But if I'm Bill Self the next time I'm recruiting against UK I have some ammunition.

2) Calipari himself on live tv said Bledsoe was a top 5 pick if Wall didn't go to UK. I know he was trying to hype Eric up but again if I'm recruiting against him in the future I'm telling a kid look he himself admitted Bledsoe lost millions of dollars by not being featured at UK, you know he's recruiting other kids besides you, why would you take the risk of going there?

3) With all the talk about UK breaking the record with 5 first round picks let's not forget they didn't even make the final 4 losing to a team that had lost it's starting PG and was short handed. Duke won despite arguably losing their best pro prospect(Elliott Williams) to a transfer, Calipari has 5 first round picks on the roster and can't make the final 4?

IT's interesting several big name prospects including recently Josiah Turner have said "everyone wants to play for Kentucky right now", I wonder if this draft will further that or if kids will look at the other side of things?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Multiple things that I personally see as bad for UK.

I wish I could say this draft was bad for Kentucky but I just don't see it that way. I think a lot of recruits will look at the draft and believe that Calipari and Kentucky won the night. It ended up being pretty much the UK show and that's what the Kentucky snake oil salesmen will tell their prospective recruits. When it comes to smarmy Calipari, duplicity sells. If you listened to Calipari you get the feeling he's really trying to convince the world that there are two NCAA champions. The one that wins in April and the one that wins on draft night.

Steve

 

[Dback Jon]

I wish I could say this draft was bad for Kentucky but I just don't see it that way. I think a lot of recruits will look at the draft and believe that Calipari and Kentucky won the night. It ended up being pretty much the UK show and that's what the Kentucky snake oil salesmen will tell their prospective recruits. When it comes to smarmy Calipari, duplicity sells. If you listened to Calipari you get the feeling he's really trying to convince the world that there are two NCAA champions. The one that wins in April and the one that wins on draft night.

Steve

Yup Calipari is bad for the NCAA

 

[Southpaw]

Probably good for Kentucky and Calipari. With the one year rule, he has become the perfect destination for the one and done players and Kentucky fans just wanna win, no matter what. Bad for the NCAA, SEC and NBA.

 

[Russ Smith]

Probably good for Kentucky and Calipari. With the one year rule, he has become the perfect destination for the one and done players and Kentucky fans just wanna win, no matter what. Bad for the NCAA, SEC and NBA.

It's interesting Memphis should have but blew it but so far since the one and done rule was adopted no NCAA champ has had a one and done. Everyone says Carmelo, but that was before the rule was adopted, he could have gone straight to the NBA he chose not to.

It'll happen eventually but it is interesting that the one and dones aren't winning it all.

 

[Southpaw]

It's interesting Memphis should have but blew it but so far since the one and done rule was adopted no NCAA champ has had a one and done. Everyone says Carmelo, but that was before the rule was adopted, he could have gone straight to the NBA he chose not to.

It'll happen eventually but it is interesting that the one and dones aren't winning it all.

No one and done team not having won it all does not surprise me at all. I will be very surprised when one does it.

 

[DWKB]

No one and done team not having won it all does not surprise me at all. I will be very surprised when one does it.

Not a single player from the NC team drafted this year.

 

[DWKB]

It's interesting Memphis should have but blew it

They didn't blow it, it was taken from them.

 

[Russ Smith]

They didn't blow it, it was taken from them.

Making freethrows would have won it, but Self's FT defense was genius, getting them to miss 4 of their last 5 after they had hit 11 of their first 14.

The NCAA would have taken it away later thanks to Rose of course, the only one and done in the game.

 

[DWKB]

Making freethrows would have won it, but Self's FT defense was genius, getting them to miss 4 of their last 5 after they had hit 11 of their first 14.

The NCAA would have taken it away later thanks to Rose of course, the only one and done in the game.

Kansas scored 12 points in the last 2 mins shooting 100%. Had Kansas missed a single shot they would have lost. Kansas also had pressure defense that led to turnovers and solid defensive rebounding.

KU essentially had control of the game until the 8 min mark when Mem went on a 10-0 run started by Rose's prayer of a 3 pointer. Kansas missed 4(!) layups during this period. If that doesn't happen, Mem isn't in the position they were at the 2 min mark. Mem fell apart in OT. I'm positive I've seen the game more times than you have. There are plenty of "ifs" you can throw out during the game to give either team the win.

 

[Russ Smith]

Kansas scored 12 points in the last 2 mins shooting 100%. Had Kansas missed a single shot they would have lost. Kansas also had pressure defense that led to turnovers and solid defensive rebounding.

KU essentially had control of the game until the 8 min mark when Mem went on a 10-0 run started by Rose's prayer of a 3 pointer. Kansas missed 4(!) layups during this period. If that doesn't happen, Mem isn't in the position they were at the 2 min mark. Mem fell apart in OT. I'm positive I've seen the game more times than you have. There are plenty of "ifs" you can throw out during the game to give either team the win.

Sure there are but the fact is Kansas was down 9 with 2 minutes left but Memphis missed 4 of 5 and I think at least 1 of those were front ends of a one and one(from memory). Hell Rose missed a FT with 10 seconds left his only miss of the game, if he makes that they win.It was smart coaching that was a Memphis weakness and the only chance KU had to catch up, but there was luck involved in Memphis missing those shots. Douglas Roberts missed all 3 of his in the last 75 seconds of the game. 71% shooter for the year over 70 for his career, 6-6 for the game and then he missed 3 in a row in the 75 seconds. I think most of us would agree he choked?

The prior game Memphis led UCLA by 9 with just under 4 minutes to go, Westbrook missed a driving shot, overshot it, Rose gets the rebound and a runout layup 11 points. Memphis then hit 10 consecutive freethrows, 6 by Rose 4 by the same CDR that missed 3 in a row in the KU loss. Yes UCLA didn't make shots like Kansas did but if even one of those 4 misses by Memphis goes in, Kansas still loses and then Memphis gets an NC vacated and Calipari is IMHO not the coach at Kentucky today he's probably an NBA assistant ala Kelvin Sampson. 10-10 down the stretch one game, 1-5 the next game, you can't seriously credit KU for the discrepancy in FT shooting especially since it was the same 2 players shooting all 15 FT's.

Kansas made a brilliant comeback, but they still would have lost if not for Memphis missing those FT's.


I do find it ironic you point out Kansas missed 4 layups, shots that were contested by the way, yet you somehow don't want to acknowledge that Memphis missed 4 completely unguarded FT's and if even one of them goes in the game never goes to overtime.

We also have a different definition of "control of the game", in my world not having a lead of bigger than 3 points in the entire second half is not control of the game.

It was one of the bigger chokes in national championship history.

 

[DWKB]

I do find it ironic you point out Kansas missed 4 layups, shots that were contested by the way, yet you somehow don't want to acknowledge that Memphis missed 4 completely unguarded FT's and if even one of them goes in the game never goes to overtime.

It's not ironic, because I made the point of pointing it out to show that Memphis wouldn't have been in the position to miss those FTs for the game if KU hadn't missed those layups. That the situation didn't arrive in a vacuum. It has nothing to do with "not acknowledging".

We also have a different definition of "control of the game", in my world not having a lead of bigger than 3 points in the entire second half is not control of the game.

I think only because I'm considering more than the score. Memphis lead for 7 mins outside of the last 8 min span taking the lead then on miracle 3 pt shots and KU missed chippies. Very similar to how UCLA beat KU in 2007 EE. This isn't said to boost KU or even excuse them, it's just pointing out that KU choked first if you want to state it that way.

It was one of the bigger chokes in national championship history.

That wouldn't have happened without KU's brilliant play in the last 2 mins and OT.

 

[Russ Smith]

It's not ironic, because I made the point of pointing it out to show that Memphis wouldn't have been in the position to miss those FTs for the game if KU hadn't missed those layups. That the situation didn't arrive in a vacuum. It has nothing to do with "not acknowledging".



I think only because I'm considering more than the score. Memphis lead for 7 mins outside of the last 8 min span taking the lead then on miracle 3 pt shots and KU missed chippies. Very similar to how UCLA beat KU in 2007 EE. This isn't said to boost KU or even excuse them, it's just pointing out that KU choked first if you want to state it that way.



That wouldn't have happened without KU's brilliant play in the last 2 mins and OT.

So if I understand correctly. Memphis missing unguarded FT's was due to Kansas. But Kansas missing guarded shots both in the Memphis game and the year before in the UCLA game was due to Kansas?

You can't be that myopic. We had that discussion back then, every team UCLA beat that year complained after the game of bad shooting and missing "easy shots." After awhile it sort of got obvious it wasn't a coincidence, the style of defense they played forced teams into rushing shots. Memphis had the same complaint when UCLA beat them 50-45, we missed so many easy shots. Afflalo made a couple of huge shots late in the clock, shots that were by design I remind you, that's how Howland coaches end of games with leads. Run the clock down, put the ball in the hands of the guy he wants to take the big shot. That year it was usually Afflalo, the next 2 years it was Collison, last year they never led so it didn't happen much.

It's not that you're looking at more than the score it's that you can't grasp that there were reasons Kansas missed shots in both those games, defense. Both those opponents were excellent defensive teams.

When I hear UCLA fans complain about if only Collison had shot well or if Luc had made some jumpers or if Love had played better I always point out none of that happened because of Memphis' defense. They guarded Collison tough, they dared Luc to take those jumpers he missed, they doubled Love(with Luc's man). That wasn't UCLA failing that was Memphis succeeding.

2 players 10-10 down the stretch in one game, 1-5 down the stretch in the next game, same 2 players. Unguarded FT's, you can't possibly believe Kansas had anything do with those misses. It was the pressure of the game, the final was much more pressure packed than the semi, and Memphis choked. Kansas was good enough to take advantage of them choking yes, but Memphis would have won that game if any of those 4 misses had gone in.

Also correct me if my math is wrong but even if we credit KU with 4 layups they should have made, they still would have trailed by 1 at the 2 minute mark so you really still believe they were in control, even if they were behind?Not to mention I'm guessing Memphis missed some easy shots in the game too, it happens in every game for both teams, not just Kansas misses "easy shots."

that's what makes the game interesting. In the UCLA loss to Memphis, it was a 7 point game with 7 minutes to go, James Keefe had a wide open 3 that went all the way down and curled out, would have cut the lead to 4. Neither team then scored for 2 minutes before Memphis hit a shot to go up 9. That was the game for UCLA, if that shot goes they're down 4, it missed at about the 3 minute mark they start fouling, Memphis makes the FT's, 15 point loss. That's basketball it's a game of runs, a lead of one or 2 possessions is not control, it's just a lead.

 

[DWKB]

So if I understand correctly. Memphis missing unguarded FT's was due to Kansas. But Kansas missing guarded shots both in the Memphis game and the year before in the UCLA game was due to Kansas?

You can't be that myopic.

No, I'm not that myopic because I didn't make that argument. You can't be so dense as to think that I did when I clearly statement myself.

It's not that you're looking at more than the score it's that you can't grasp that there were reasons Kansas missed shots in both those games, defense. Both those opponents were excellent defensive teams.

No, I "can't grasp"....why do you have to post such ******* comments? Get over yourself.

 

[Mulli]

 

[Russ Smith]

No, I'm not that myopic because I didn't make that argument. You can't be so dense as to think that I did when I clearly statement myself.



No, I "can't grasp"....why do you have to post such ******* comments? Get over yourself.

Well I guess I misread when you explained why those 4 layups KU missed in the Memphis game were the reason Memphis was even in a position to lose the game by missing 4 of 5 FT's. I mean you clearly "statement myself" didn't you?

You very clearly said that Memphis wouldn't have been in a position to blow a lead if KU hadn't blown 4 layups earlier in the game. Which implies that when KU misses layups with defense being played, it's KU's fault. But you also said that Memphis didn't blow the game, KU took it from them, which implies that KU somehow impacted them missing completely unguarded FT's since in the end just 1 more made FT would have won the game for Memphis.
Kind of hard to see any other conclusion than you are implying when KU misses it's their fault, when the other team misses KU caused it, even if it's a FT.


Derrick Rose missed the first of 2 FT's with 10 seconds left, if he makes both shots Chalmers' shot doesn't matter it's still a 1 point loss. CDR missed 3 FT's in the last 2 minutes, one of them the front end of a 1 and 1, 4 possible points, and those were his only misses in the game he was 6-6 prior to those 3.

I have repeatedly pointed out that KU did their part very well, making shots and fouling, but in the end that strategy only works if Memphis misses the FT's, and that's completely out of the hands of Kansas, they have zero impact on the other team making FT's. If they were finding a way to put say Dorsey on the line yeah that would be different but again they fouled the same 2 guys, this time they just missed the shots.

You're the one who implied you understood the game better because you were paying attention to more than the score. I would assert that as usual you were only paying attention to it as a Kansas fan, while others like me were watching as a basketball fan who really didn't care which team won since my team was out.

Even the announcers who worked the game said Memphis blew it. That doesn't mean Kansas didn't make a bunch of big shots and make the game close but they only won because of those missed FT's.

I'm already over myself I'm not the one who turned a thread about one and dones and Kentucky into a thread about Kansas now am I?

 

[overseascardfan]

http://www.tmz.com/2010/07/02/university-of-kentucky-basketball-sec-ncaa-probe/


Uh oh, looks like Kentucky has some explaining to do, but if the details of these allegations is true Cal can deny all knowledge.

 

[Russ Smith]

http://www.tmz.com/2010/07/02/university-of-kentucky-basketball-sec-ncaa-probe/


Uh oh, looks like Kentucky has some explaining to do, but if the details of these allegations is true Cal can deny all knowledge.

Yep and the it's just TMZ no longer works, they've been breaking sports stories for awhile now including the Tiny Gallon took money from a financial advisor story recently which resulted in Gallon entering the NBA draft.

Based on the wording in that story most people are guessing the 4 players are Wall, Cousins, Kanter and Terrence Jones. 2 who just got drafted and 2 current players. Guessing that current includes incoming recruits because if it means returning players only, there doesn't appear to be 2 players on UK's roster that any agent would tamper with. All the really good prospects already left in the draft, only incoming guys Kanter, Jones and Knight appear to be that good and nobody seems to have any suspicions on Knight.

Kanter has tons of claims he played pro ball in Turkey and won't be eligible so he's an easy one to suspect. Jones of course announces live he's going to UW and then later that day talks to Calipari and changes his mind. So people already suspected something was fishy.

UK's situation is apparently really similar to Mayo at USC, everyone knew Mayo wasn't an amateur everyone was researching to find dirt to do a story, ESPN, SI, CBS, LA Times etc. They were all looking for that story I have a friend who works at the Times and he said it was well known everyone was trying to find that story, ESPN just got lucky that the informant went to them. Apparently that same thing is true with UK now, everyone thinks there's fire there they're all just looking at the smoke to see if they can find it.

There were rumors months ago they were looking at Wall and Cousins, then the Bledsoe rumors, now this TMZ story, so it does sound likely the media is watching them like a hawk.

If and when something breaks it will still be a tip that breaks it. Apparently the Gallon case was broken because the advisor wired money to his mom something like Western Union. The person who got the wire was a basketball fan and when the mom came in, he happened to know who her son was and told someone who did some digging and got the story.

 

[overseascardfan]

Yep and the it's just TMZ no longer works, they've been breaking sports stories for awhile now including the Tiny Gallon took money from a financial advisor story recently which resulted in Gallon entering the NBA draft.

Based on the wording in that story most people are guessing the 4 players are Wall, Cousins, Kanter and Terrence Jones. 2 who just got drafted and 2 current players. Guessing that current includes incoming recruits because if it means returning players only, there doesn't appear to be 2 players on UK's roster that any agent would tamper with. All the really good prospects already left in the draft, only incoming guys Kanter, Jones and Knight appear to be that good and nobody seems to have any suspicions on Knight.

Kanter has tons of claims he played pro ball in Turkey and won't be eligible so he's an easy one to suspect. Jones of course announces live he's going to UW and then later that day talks to Calipari and changes his mind. So people already suspected something was fishy.

UK's situation is apparently really similar to Mayo at USC, everyone knew Mayo wasn't an amateur everyone was researching to find dirt to do a story, ESPN, SI, CBS, LA Times etc. They were all looking for that story I have a friend who works at the Times and he said it was well known everyone was trying to find that story, ESPN just got lucky that the informant went to them. Apparently that same thing is true with UK now, everyone thinks there's fire there they're all just looking at the smoke to see if they can find it.

There were rumors months ago they were looking at Wall and Cousins, then the Bledsoe rumors, now this TMZ story, so it does sound likely the media is watching them like a hawk.

If and when something breaks it will still be a tip that breaks it. Apparently the Gallon case was broken because the advisor wired money to his mom something like Western Union. The person who got the wire was a basketball fan and when the mom came in, he happened to know who her son was and told someone who did some digging and got the story.

Cal IMO made a bad choice to stay at UK. He could have coached Lebron and possibly Wade if they go to CHI. Now the NCAA will be watching him and it is only a matter of time before something is discovered. Cal will definitely jump ship after this year, the NCAA is getting to close to the truth.

 

[Southpaw]

Kaintucky has been cheating forever, or at least back to the days of Adolph Rupp. Ever hear about the "Lake House"? That school believes in the old axiom, "if you ain't cheating , you ain't trying. "

BTW, the NCAA now has the "fatman" in charge of nailing these schools.