New Back-up Point...

[My3Suns]

Boris Diaw.

I think they are not worried about free agents or the crappy draft. They already have a back-up point guard in Boris Diaw. The Suns are going to tweak their offense so when Nash sits we go bigger. During the Bulls championship years they never started a true point guard who handled the ball regularly. The primary ball handler in bringing the ball up during pressure situations was always Scottie Pippen.

Normally, the person who was guarding him couldn't steal the ball if his life depended on it. Also, if they sent a faster person over he would just advance the ball to the mismatch.

I know this sounds weird but I think this is why D’Antoni is standing pat and not too worried about overpaying anyone. The corrections he's going to make to the second unit is only going to happen in training camp.

 

[devilalum]

The correct term is point forward.

This is fine if you don't want to push the ball. Diaw will not run the break in D'Antoni's system.

 

[My3Suns]

True. Thats why the second unit will run a different offense hopefully one that can maintain a lead.

 

[devilalum]

True. Thats why the second unit will run a different offense hopefully one that can maintain a lead.

But the second unit running a slow down offense negates what the first unit does. It allows the other team to get a rest.

 

[George O'Brien]

My guess is that the Suns will try to come up with an organized verison of having Leandro push the ball with Boris handling the ball if the early offense doen't click.

Last season the Suns tried to use House at PG on the theory that Leandro needed to develop his guard skills before having the extra burden of running the offense. They didn't really shift the PG responsibility back to Leandro until very late as Eddie basically played himself out of the rotation.

 

[playstation]

My guess is that the Suns will try to come up with an organized verison of having Leandro push the ball with Boris handling the ball if the early offense doen't click.

Last season the Suns tried to use House at PG on the theory that Leandro needed to develop his guard skills before having the extra burden of running the offense. They didn't really shift the PG responsibility back to Leandro until very late as Eddie basically played himself out of the rotation.

agreed

leandro is good if he doesn't have to think. in a fast break, its real simple. LB is kind of like jake plummer in that way

 

[Treesquid PhD]

agreed

leandro is good if he doesn't have to think. in a fast break, its real simple. LB is kind of like jake plummer in that way

I rarely laugh at anything that is posted on this board but intentionally or not that comment on leandro was freaking hilarious.

 

[Gaddabout]

There's nothing comparable about Diaw's and Pippen's games. Pippen could create shots for other people off the dribble at the top of the key. He was very much like a point guard. Diaw is a better passer, but the guys he finds aren't always in the best position to score -- Diaw will never draw the kind of attention from a defense Pippen did.

 

[Espo]

I think running a slowed down offense with a second unit doesn't negate what the first unit did. One of our big problems last year was giving up big leads. If a bigger second unit with Diaw at the point can keep a lead until Nash gets back in and they can push the tempo again I think it works perfectly. Plus it will work to our advantage in the playoffs.

 

[Goldfield]

My guess is that the Suns will try to come up with an organized verison of having Leandro push the ball with Boris handling the ball if the early offense doen't click.

Thats exactly what will happen. With Amare there will be alot less halfcourt pressure.

 

[George O'Brien]

There's nothing comparable about Diaw's and Pippen's games. Pippen could create shots for other people off the dribble at the top of the key. He was very much like a point guard. Diaw is a better passer, but the guys he finds aren't always in the best position to score -- Diaw will never draw the kind of attention from a defense Pippen did.

Whose fault is it that guys aren't in position to score when Boris passes them the ball?

BTW, Pippen was not really Pippen his first few years, with just 2.1 assists and 3.5 assist his first two years. His career assist average was 5.2 which is great for a non-point guard.

What made Pippen so interesting was that he did so many things including rebound, In 93-94 and 94-95 he grabbed over 8 rpg.

 

[Gaddabout]

Whose fault is it that guys aren't in position to score when Boris passes them the ball?

If teams aren't concerned you'll go off for 40 unless they send help, nobody's going to be in position to score. Dallas appeared to give Boris 30 a game on an unguarded basket, and no one else was going to benefit from it. Boris wasn't a threat to get anyone in foul trouble, either.

 

[Errntknght]

Why in the world would we have the best triple threat high post player since Webber in his prime, move to PG? Far better to teach our perimeter players to make good cuts and backdoor moves so he has targets for his passes. Heck, Boris could be racking up ten assists a game easy from the high post.

As far as him passing to guys not in position to shoot, I really don't know where that comes from. Its not like he was overlooking good opportunities for assist passes - he was very creative at finding them. Of course, he passed the ball to Leandro for the latter's drives and when nothing was going he'd pass the ball back to Nash or whoever the PG was. Thats just good team play.

There's a little more room to criticize Diaw for not drawing fouls. At the start of the year he was almost Marionesque in avoiding contact when he shot but his aggressiveness improved as the season wore on and I'd guess he drew more fouls inside than anyone else during the playoffs. He'll never be Amare but he is steadily improving. And there is a positive in his not just blindly attacking the rim - he makes some terrific passes on the move.

 

[George O'Brien]

If teams aren't concerned you'll go off for 40 unless they send help, nobody's going to be in position to score. Dallas appeared to give Boris 30 a game on an unguarded basket, and no one else was going to benefit from it. Boris wasn't a threat to get anyone in foul trouble, either.

Against Dallas, Boris did not have a healthy Raja available much less Amare.

 

[Chaplin]

Boris' rebounding numbers will likely dip as well, seeing as we will still have Shawn, and then Kurt and Amare will be back.

On a side note, it's nice to think of Boris as a triple double threat, but he won't be much of one next year.

 

[Errntknght]

On a side note, it's nice to think of Boris as a triple double threat, but he won't be much of one next year.

Chap, you misread my post... I called Boris a triple threat at the high post, not a 'triple double' threat. Thats motion offense lingo for a high post player that can shoot, drive and pass well. LOL

 

[George O'Brien]

On a side note, it's nice to think of Boris as a triple double threat, but he won't be much of one next year.

Chap, you misread my post... I called Boris a triple threat at the high post, not a 'triple double' threat. Thats motion offense lingo for a high post player that can shoot, drive and pass well. LOL

Actually Boris IS the team's biggest trible double threat if he improves his rebounding. He's certainly not a classic big man in both the positive and negitive meaning of the term.

 

[My3Suns]

Why in the world would we have the best triple threat high post player since Webber in his prime, move to PG? Far better to teach our perimeter players to make good cuts and backdoor moves so he has targets for his passes. Heck, Boris could be racking up ten assists a game easy from the high post.

Why would we not? If he is handling the ball he can put his self in that same triple threat position with ease. Who's going to stop him from getting there, guards are too small and bigs are too slow. He's the perfect halfcourt point guard when the team needs to go big and secure leads. Which I think would be great for a second unit.

Please don't read too much into this I know where our bread and butter is. This idea is just going to add more diversity and mis-matches in our offense, which D'Antoni loves. I truely think this is what he has in mind for the second unit, but only time will tell.

 

[George O'Brien]

The lineup with Barbosa and Diaw is not going to have a classic point guard, but should be pretty potent anyway. In the half court, using Boris on the outside or at the high post will probably vary depending on the matchups.

BTW, one factor that has not been examined is whether D'Antoni will try to ensure that either Nash or Stoudemire is on the floor at all times (like the way Phil used Jordan and Pippen). The combination of Barbosa and Diaw is a lot more difficult to stop if Stoudemire is also playing.

 

[Errntknght]

My3suns, "If he is handling the ball he can put his self in that same triple threat position with ease. Who's going to stop him from getting there, guards are too small and bigs are too slow."

If he works himself to that position by handling the ball then he's used his dribble so he's not nearly as big a threat. If he moves to the high post position and someone feeds him the ball then he's playing the high post position the way I suggested.

 

[pokerface]

Diaw as backup pg sounds excellent to me. All the downers on it dont have any better suggestions. Barbosa would only be a stop gap measure at pg.

 

[mribnik]

I say we give KJ another call. What is he, 40 now? I'm sure he can still play.



While I'm joking, how sweet would it be if he came back and we won a championship.

 

[Gaddabout]

I say we give KJ another call. What is he, 40 now? I'm sure he can still play.

It's too late. He keeps his hamstrings in a [SIZE=-1]formaldehyde jar on a shelf in his garage. [/SIZE]

 

[Errntknght]

pokerface, "Diaw as backup pg sounds excellent to me. All the downers on it dont have any better suggestions. Barbosa would only be a stop gap measure at pg."

I'm not exactly a 'downer' on Diaw at PG - it more that I'm very high at him playing in the high post where he was so successful last year. If Boris truly playing PG is such a good move why didn't the team drift into that mode when he was on the floor without Nash last year? In fact, he did run some plays like a PG - for example, the 'fake' P&R with Shawn with the intent of getting him an alley oop. But he didn't get into the lane like Nash does off a normal P&R - while he was quite successful getting there with a looping drive right from the high post. Also, he was on the floor with plenty of opportunities to shine at running the fast break but I don't recall that happening.

So you and George want to see Boris forced into burning energy bringing the ball up floor, trying to operate the fast break and the P&R offense. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but beyond saying you think its a great idea you haven't given any reasons why its an improvement over Boris playing at the high post. In all honesty, I'd love to see some definite ideas supporting that move because I can't see where it helps anything. At least, I've given some suggestions to make the high post position even better - namely getting the guys to make more cuts without the ball.

Its not enough to say Barbs can't operate the P&R offense - we've all known that for years. But he was doing quite well with Boris on the floor and mainly operating from the high post last year. IMO, we should build on that, not scrap it.

 

[nowagimp]

pokerface, "Diaw as backup pg sounds excellent to me. All the downers on it dont have any better suggestions. Barbosa would only be a stop gap measure at pg."

I'm not exactly a 'downer' on Diaw at PG - it more that I'm very high at him playing in the high post where he was so successful last year. If Boris truly playing PG is such a good move why didn't the team drift into that mode when he was on the floor without Nash last year? In fact, he did run some plays like a PG - for example, the 'fake' P&R with Shawn with the intent of getting him an alley oop. But he didn't get into the lane like Nash does off a normal P&R - while he was quite successful getting there with a looping drive right from the high post. Also, he was on the floor with plenty of opportunities to shine at running the fast break but I don't recall that happening.

So you and George want to see Boris forced into burning energy bringing the ball up floor, trying to operate the fast break and the P&R offense. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but beyond saying you think its a great idea you haven't given any reasons why its an improvement over Boris playing at the high post. In all honesty, I'd love to see some definite ideas supporting that move because I can't see where it helps anything. At least, I've given some suggestions to make the high post position even better - namely getting the guys to make more cuts without the ball.

Its not enough to say Barbs can't operate the P&R offense - we've all known that for years. But he was doing quite well with Boris on the floor and mainly operating from the high post last year. IMO, we should build on that, not scrap it.

Errntknght is right here, and DAntoni has already shown his hand. Barbosa will bring the ball up and Diaw will take the feed in the high post and drive, dish or shoot. The reason that Boris is not a great backup point is that his outside shot does not force defensive spacing. Leandro will provide that aspect when Nash sits down.