Non Dbacks the 715th HR ball sells for over 200K

[Russ Smith]

Can anybody explain to me why? We already know Bonds cheated, and the record is 755 not 714 so why did #715 have any value at all?

 

[Card Trader]

Bonds may have cheated, but he hit the homers facing pitchers who also cheated. He deserves all the credit for what he is accomplishing.

Sorry you don't see the significance of HR #715.

 

[devilfan02]

Can anybody explain to me why? We already know Bonds cheated, and the record is 755 not 714 so why did #715 have any value at all?

He passed Babe as the all-time left handed home run leader. While we all know he's a cheater, his records will stand which give the ball it's worth. Todd McFarlane paid $3 million for McGwires 70th home run ball in 1999 which has very little historical significance. Don't forget, McGwire is a cheater too........ Bottom line is there are a lot of people out there with way too much money and spend it on outlandish stuff

 

[devilfan02]

Bonds may have cheated, but he hit the homers facing pitchers who also cheated. He deserves all the credit for what he is accomplishing.

Take it easy. Sure he had to hit the homeruns and I'm sure some of the pitchers he faced juiced as well..... But to say he deserves all the credit for what he's accomplishing is absolutely insane and is outright ludacris. You should run for commissioner, you and Bud have a lot in common

 

[Card Trader]

You're right, he doesn't deserve all the credit.

 

[devilfan02]

You're right, he doesn't deserve all the credit.

Give me one good reason why he "deserves all the credit for what he's accomplishing?" He clealry cheated and deserves to go to jail for lying to a federal judge. One good reason......

 

[Card Trader]

First off, how has he "clearly" cheated. Did you get some test results that the rest of us haven't? Second, if he deserved to go to jail, he would have already been there. The witch hunt has proven to be an embarassment to the hunters, not the hunted.

He deserves the credit because he hit the homers. It's as simple as that.

 

[devilfan02]

You know, your right it's all a witch hunt. His trainer was probably just framed and isn't at fault for his athletes- Tim Montgomery, The Giambis, Sheffield and numerous other failing or admitting to steroid and masking agent use. Or BALCO, where Bonds got all his "nutrients" since 1998 which got raided and closed down by the feds was imaginary, or Victor Conte who did jail time for his role in giving athletes steroids was imaginary, or Bonds head and body doubling in size since the mid- 1990s was an illusion, or the detailed schedule of performance enhancers and maskers that Bonds took religiously for years all during the time in which his HR numbers skyrocketed were fake...... Shall I go on???? Giambi nor Sheff failed steroids tests but did they use performance enhancers?

I feel bad for people like you. Sure, there are plenty of major leaguers who in the past and currently have used illegal performance enhancers but Bonds, up until last year, was the face of baseball. Any player, especially one with MOUNTAINS AND MOUNTAINS of evidence against them, who is on the verge of being the all time home run leader should be investigated. Thats not my idea of a witch hunt. It's called saving the integrity of the game. You can continue to ignore all the overwhelming evidence as your clearly a Giants fan. I'm hoping that's the case cause if not you're completely ignorant

 

[Card Trader]

You know, your right it's all a witch hunt. His trainer was probably just framed and isn't at fault for his athletes- Tim Montgomery, The Giambis, Sheffield and numerous other failing or admitting to steroid and masking agent use. Or BALCO, where Bonds got all his "nutrients" since 1998 which got raided and closed down by the feds was imaginary, or Victor Conte who did jail time for his role in giving athletes steroids was imaginary, or Bonds head and body doubling in size since the mid- 1990s was an illusion, or the detailed schedule of performance enhancers and maskers that Bonds took religiously for years all during the time in which his HR numbers skyrocketed were fake...... Shall I go on???? Giambi nor Sheff failed steroids tests but did they use performance enhancers?

I feel bad for people like you. Sure, there are plenty of major leaguers who in the past and currently have used illegal performance enhancers but Bonds, up until last year, was the face of baseball. Any player, especially one with MOUNTAINS AND MOUNTAINS of evidence against them, who is on the verge of being the all time home run leader should be investigated. Thats not my idea of a witch hunt. It's called saving the integrity of the game. You can continue to ignore all the overwhelming evidence as your clearly a Giants fan. I'm hoping that's the case cause if not you're completely ignorant

Don't feel bad for me, kid. As for me being a Giants fan? LOL.

If there was, as you say, MOUNTAINS and MOUNTAINS of evidence against Bonds, don't you think someone would have arrested/suspended him by now? Think about it.

Did bonds take performance enhancing drugs? I don't know, and neither do you. All we know is what the facts state, and as they stand now, there are no facts saying that Bonds was a "roider".

BTW, did Balco only produce illegal supplements? Didn't think so. Guilt by association doesn't really hold any water. On top of that, the one thing Barry did admit to receiving from Anderson, he was lied to about what it actually was, when he found out, he stopped it immediately.

See, if you are going to feel sorry for someone, make it people like you, that can't form their own opinion and can't look at facts to help them form that opinion. Here is a little tip for you: coincidence != fact.

 

[Russ Smith]

Bonds may have cheated, but he hit the homers facing pitchers who also cheated. He deserves all the credit for what he is accomplishing.

Sorry you don't see the significance of HR #715.

Oh I think Bonds is the best player I've ever seen in person, I used to be a huge Bonds fan, I still think what he's done is remarkable. My problem is, 715 is nothing, it's just #2 on the record books so it's not a record. each ball after 715 qualifies him as #2 on the list, but they're not selling for over 200K, so why did 715?

Same thing bugged me the year McGwire broke the single season record. AFTER he'd broken it, Sosa went over 61 and they made a huge deal over it, why, the record wasn't 61 anymore it was already broken by McGwire who was still adding to it.

It's a round number obsession that annoys me, like a pitcher with the all time strikeout record but they make a huge deal when he hits the next round #.

As for did he cheat at some point you have to ask yourself if he didn't, how come there's so much evidence he did. He's in the same situation Keith Hernandez was in the 80's after the Pittsburgh drug trials. Hernandez admitted under oath he'd bought cocaine from a guy involved in the trial. The Cards had several players with drug problems at the time, they either went to rehab, or got traded. Hernandez refused to go to rehab and got traded to the MEts and he spent a full year popping off about Herzog and what a stupid trade it was because he knew his testimony was sealed. Then one of the main guys involved in the whole process left baseball and announced the drug program was a joke, that the world champion Cards had a bunch of players who'd been caught in an FBI sting, and they were all still playing. He named Lonnie Smith, Andujar, and Hernandez, and finally we all found out the REAL reason they'd traded Hernandez.

Bonds is in the same situation, all indications are he admitted it under oath just said he didn't know it was steroids. But because it's sealed, he wasn't counting on it leaking out like it did.

I'd have a lot more respect for Barry if he just came out and admitted he did it and moved on.

But the main reason for this thread is why is 715 significant anymore?

 

[devilfan02]

Here you go, kid. You might ask where this came from??? Came from Game of Shadows. Of course your not gonna believe anything in it as grand jury testimony means nothing to you or Barry Bonds. How can you dismiss the MOUNTAINS AND MOUNTAINS of evidence??? It's overwhelming

• Statements to Federal Agents
1. When he was questioned during the raid, BALCO's James Valente told Novitzky that Bonds had received the undetectable steroids the Cream and the Clear from BALCO. Valente said Anderson had brought Bonds to BALCO before the 2003 season, seeking steroids that would not show up on drug tests. Valente said he provided Anderson with drugs to give to Bonds. Valente pleaded guilty to a steroid conspiracy charge in 2005.

2. In his own statement during the raid, Conte gave an identical account of Anderson's bringing Bonds to BALCO and Bonds's subsequent use of the Cream and the Clear. Conte said Bonds used the drugs on a regular basis. Conte later claimed Novitzky's report contained words he never said. But it is significant that in 2005, Conte backed out of an evidentiary hearing in which he could have confronted Novitzky about the supposedly incorrect statements and sought to have them thrown out of court. Instead, Conte pleaded guilty to a steroid conspiracy charge.

3. When Anderson was questioned by agents on the day of the raid, he admitted giving banned drugs to many of his "baseball clients" but denied giving drugs to Bonds. In a search of Anderson's residence, agents found calendars referring to Bonds that plotted his use of steroids. When the agents sought to question Anderson about the calendars, the trainer said he didn't think he should talk anymore because he didn't want to go to jail. He pleaded guilty to steroid conspiracy and acknowledged in court that he dealt drugs to baseball players.

4. In the summer of 2004 the former Olympic shot putter C. J. Hunter told agent Novitzky that Conte had confided to him that Bonds was using the Clear. Hunter said their conversation had taken place in '03. Hunter's lawyer later said the federal agent's report was incorrect and that Conte had not implicated Bonds to Hunter.
• U.S. Grand Jury Testimony
1. In 2005 Kimberly Bell told the BALCO grand jury that in '00 Bonds had confided in her that he was using steroids, saying they helped him recover from injuries but also blaming them for the elbow injury that sidelined him in 1999.
2. In 2003 sprinter Tim Montgomery told the grand jury that when he visited BALCO in '00 or '01, he saw vials of the steroid Winstrol in BALCO's weight room. Montgomery testified that Conte said he was giving Winstrol to Bonds.
3. In 2003 five baseball players told the grand jury that they'd gotten steroids, growth hormone and other drugs from Anderson, whom they had met in his role as Bonds's trainer. The obvious import of their testimony was that they were receiving the same drugs that Anderson was giving Bonds, but the players claimed no direct knowledge of Bonds's steroid use.
• Documents
At Anderson's apartment, investigators found steroids, growth hormone and $60,000 in cash, along with a folder that contained doping calendars and other documents detailing Bonds's use of steroids. Prosecutors questioned Bonds about the documents during his appearance before the grand jury. Some document entries reflect payments for drugs for Bonds: $1,500 for two boxes of growth hormone; $450 for a bottle of Depotestosterone; $100 for 100 Clomiphene pills; $200 for the Cream and the Clear. Other entries reflect Bonds's drug cycle: For February 2002, a calendar showed alternating days of the Cream, the Clear and growth hormone followed by "Clow," or Clomid.
A document labeled "BLB 2003" listed cities where the Giants played away games in 2003, with notations for the use of growth hormone, the Clear, the Cream and insulin on specific days. Other documents associated with Bonds referred to the use of trenbolone and "beans," the Mexican steroid. At Anderson's apartment, and in a search of BALCO's trash, the agents also found evidence of Bonds's blood being sent to drug labs for steroid testing.

 

[Card Trader]

LOL. Look, son, if anything said there was proven to be true, do you think the Grand Jury would have expired on Bonds' perjury charges?

Like I said, Bonds admitted that he unknowingly took what he thought was a healthy supplement provided to him by his trainer. It's his word against these criminals word.

 

[Card Trader]

For the record, I'm not a Bonds fan, the guy is an ass, but I do respect what he has done and in my lifetime have never seen a player more dominant in baseball. There are no other players out there that make you stop what you are doing and watch, when they are at the plate.(Except maybe David Ortiz with the game on the line).

Until we see PROOF of any wrong doing, or Bonds admits it, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Third party accounts, testimony from criminals, or mysteriously "sources", just aren't enough. When you are on a witch hunt, you better come up with P R O O F.

 

[devilfan02]

LOL. Look, son, if anything said there was proven to be true, do you think the Grand Jury would have expired on Bonds' perjury charges?

Like I said, Bonds admitted that he unknowingly took what he thought was a healthy supplement provided to him by his trainer. It's his word against these criminals word.

The criminals who supplied him and got caught. If all this wasn't true then why doesn't Bonds simply sue the writers of the book for slander? Because he'd have to testify and when he found that out he ran back into his little hole. Those steroid, HGH, cream and the clear, etc calendars were probably all for a different Barry Bonds. It's a good thing Greg Anderson cleared that up in court this past month. Oh wait, he sat in jail instead of going before a jury and incriminating him and Bonds. I wonder why he had no problem naming everyone else he juiced up but chose to sit in jail for Bonds? If he's not hiding anything, go in front of the jury...

 

[Diamondback Jay]

Aight.. Everyone step away from the computer, take ten breaths of fresh air, come back and start from scratch LOL.

 

[devilfan02]

I'm fine. I used to be a Bonds fan as I cheer whole heartedly for all ASU alum. IMO, he was one of the most naturally gifted athletes of my time and was well on his way to a natural hall of fame career and he ruined it. My problem is I don't understand how people can simply push aside the unreal amounts of evidence in this case. Sure he hasn't failed a test but but to disregard the evidence is amazing. Whatever, to each his own

 

[Russ Smith]

For the record, I'm not a Bonds fan, the guy is an ass, but I do respect what he has done and in my lifetime have never seen a player more dominant in baseball. There are no other players out there that make you stop what you are doing and watch, when they are at the plate.(Except maybe David Ortiz with the game on the line).

Until we see PROOF of any wrong doing, or Bonds admits it, you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Third party accounts, testimony from criminals, or mysteriously "sources", just aren't enough. When you are on a witch hunt, you better come up with P R O O F.

What's your opinion on OJ Simpson, got away with murder or correctly acquitted?

 

[Stallion]

To address Russ' original point, it is odd that a ball that didn't break a record sold for so much.

The high price tag is because of Babe Ruth. He's arguably the greatest American athlete of all time. He invented the sports-hero-as-celebrity. One could even say he was the first non-political celebrity in this country.

The Babe hit his final HR in 1936. So in 69 years after that only 1 guy hit more. So it was a really big deal when a second guy did it.

But, yeah, Bonds cheated.