Not Enough Time

[GimmedaBall]

Cards may start a totally revamped OL with only 1 guy who started for the Cards last year, C Sendelien. We have a new LT, semi-rookie LG, semi-rookie RG and RT Massie along with a rookie TE. It normally takes some game time to get the OL in synch with one another and with the new union contract the pre-season work in pads is limited.

In our tight Division, even a single game can be the difference in making the playoffs or hitting the beach. The first game last year is a case in point---our D gave up a 4th quarter lead to the Rams and we lost. That was our single most costly loss last year.

The D is also bringing in some new starters with our middle questionable. We are down one starting NT, Dansby is replaced by Minter, TM is out, and we have a rookie SS possibly starting.

Is there enough time to get all these guys in sync? Our coaching staff did a great job last season but they have a big challenge to get ready by the time the season begins.

 

[52brandon]

The OL is always changing. So IMO that's not any sort of new disadvantage. However, almost every position has been upgraded. I think that's a move in a positive direction. Minter was drafted last year for that spot. Dansby was a lucky break after the fact. DWash being suspended again is my biggest concern there. TM should be back early enough. I think Bucannon is smart enough to start quickly, plus i definitely have faith Bowles can scheme to his strengths enough to overcome any deficiency. Also, Cromartie should be able to shoulder more of the liad back there as well. All in all I think the level of talent overall has significantly improved. And I don't think the learning curve will be so bad. Especially with such a large and talented coaching staff compared to what we're used to

 

[desertdawg]

The time thing is lame, we improved everywhere.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v90qoe6dnS4

 

[GimmedaBall]

Agree that Cards have brought in some talent. Here's the roster as projected by Pro=Football Focus in FEB. 2014 (before FA and draft additions):

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/17/projected-lineups-arizona-cardinals/

Only CC is given full 'Elite' rating with PP and TM on the borderline. Looking at that eval, it is amazing that our coaching staff got us to that 10-6 record.


Here's the projected starting lineup after FA and draft as proposed by Rosenthal at NFL.com;

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000351598/article/projected-starters-arizona-cardinals

He has Housler starting at TE (how long will his 'potential' keep him on the field?) and TM starting on D.

With the Cards, agree that the OL is always changing. That is one very big reason why we sputter around so much on Offense. Teams that have some continuity on the OL do better than those who do the OL Shuffle. To really see the full scope of BA's offense is going to require an in-sync OL. Getting the Hulk at LT was the steal of FA---what are the Raiders thinking to allow the 9th rated LT who is still young and healthy to walk?

 

[Jim Otis]

Cards may start a totally revamped OL with only 1 guy who started for the Cards last year, C Sendelien. We have a new LT, semi-rookie LG, semi-rookie RG and RT Massie along with a rookie TE. It normally takes some game time to get the OL in synch with one another and with the new union contract the pre-season work in pads is limited.

In our tight Division, even a single game can be the difference in making the playoffs or hitting the beach. The first game last year is a case in point---our D gave up a 4th quarter lead to the Rams and we lost. That was our single most costly loss last year.

The D is also bringing in some new starters with our middle questionable. We are down one starting NT, Dansby is replaced by Minter, TM is out, and we have a rookie SS possibly starting.

Is there enough time to get all these guys in sync? Our coaching staff did a great job last season but they have a big challenge to get ready by the time the season begins.

What you have described looks pretty bad unless you take a very thorough and indepth look at last season . New GM , New HC/OC , New Staff , implementing a new system , New DC and Staff .
Now to the expansion team players on offence , brought in a QB that had not played with the other players , brought in 3 RB's who had not played with any of the other players . Started only 2 O-Linemen that played in 2012 (Levi) did not play in 2012 , then replaced Levi early in the season with a new guy who had not played with any of the other players . We had a group of Receivers ,Fitz , Floyd , Roberts , had played with each other , but that's about it . TE's what is there to say ?
Compound that with everyone had to learn a new system O -- D -- ST's and. I conclude that , THE CARDINAL COACHING STAFF IS THE BEST IN THE NFL . Larry plays with an injury (hammy) to start the season , our #1 pick goes down for the season , with all the adversity this team faced , we won 10 games , my hat is really , really OFF TO THIS COACHING STAFF .
I am full of high expectations for the 2014 season , I thank BA and his staff for this Kool-Aid they have served me .
GO CARDS !!!!!

 

[MadCardDisease]

The good news:

LT Veldheer signed through 2019

LG Cooper signed through 2017 with option for another year so 2018.

C Sendlein signed through 2016

TE Niklas will be signed through 2018


So you have a solid young core that has several years to play together. All we need to do now is shore up the right side of the OL. If Watford can develop, he is on the team through 2017. That just leaves a question mark at RT for the Cardinals to fill.

 

[52brandon]

The good news:

LT Veldheer signed through 2019

LG Cooper signed through 2017 with option for another year so 2018.

C Sendlein signed through 2016

TE Niklas will be signed through 2018


So you have a solid young core that has several years to play together. All we need to do now is shore up the right side of the OL. If Watford can develop, he is on the team through 2017. That just leaves a question mark at RT for the Cardinals to fill.

Yup. I absolutely love what BA/SK has done with the line already.
Instead of continually overpaying for middle-of-the-pack talent on the line, we've completely shored up the left side with young top-tier talent over 2 drafts/offseasons. Oak letting Veldheer go is viewed as one of their biggest blunders of this offseason. And Cooper is basically a rookie. If Watford developed decently as expected and Massie can go back to his pace from 2 years ago, we could be set

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I have never been one to preach continuity when talking about the offensive line. Why ? Because the Cardinals weren't even close. It wasn't till last year that I didn't want to replace every single player on the Cardinals offensive line.

LT: Levi Brown
LG: Daryn College
OC: Lyle Sendlein
RG: Adam Snyder
RT: Jeremy Bridges

Seriously, that was a reality going into training camp in Whizenhunt's last year with Arizona, and at that point, I had zero faith in Sendlein's abilities. Thus that entire line needed to be replaced, and the depth behind it needed to be upgraded.

I finally believe the Cardinals are at that point. For once, I didn't have to post a thread in February about how the Cardinals are doomed because their offensive line is so bad. Why worry about the continuity of players whose skill will never let them succeed regardless how well said player gells with the others on the line. If all 5 players stink, then you have continuity of stink.

But that is old news, onto the present.

LT: Jared Veldheer
LG: Jonathan Cooper
OC: Lyle Sendlein
RG:
RT:

In my very humble opinion the left side of the offensive line is stable. The talent is there, now work on continuity.

The right side will come. Whether it will be Massie, or Sowell at RT I feel is a battle of NFL quality starters, and at the very least will give the Cardinals a player that can do an adequate job at the position.

Right guard is the biggest question, IMO. We all want Earl Watford to be the RG because if Watford cannot supplant Fanaika then that is the problem. I personally like Fanaika but he is a sub-average player at his position. Thus his is the weak link in the line......but it is one weak link, not 5 weak links.

The biggest positive about the situation, when talking continuity, is that this is not Arians' first season as the coach, that bridge has already been crossed. Thus instead of learning a new system, AND dealing with a new offensive line, it is just the case of the new line mates learning the system they have already put in a year's plus time into.

As for the defense ?

Eight out of the eleven starters are back. Nine out of the eleven starters are already familiar with the system. And that is assuming Deone Bucannon starts, if he doesn't, then Rashad Johnson is the starter and he played last season, leaving only Antonio Cromartie as the player whom has to learn the system, and gel with his new teammates.

Not much of a continuity problem on defense, IMO.

 

[GuernseyCard]

The new O-line will possibly play more in pre-season to get the kinks out.

 

[52brandon]

The new O-line will possibly play more in pre-season to get the kinks out.

Agreed. I'd expect 1st team OL to play 1st & 2nd team snaps in a couple PS games. Maybe more depending on their results

 

[Bert]

The level of talent on the left side is so drastically improved that whatever gap in continuity the time shortage creates will be compensated for by the new guys not sucking.

 

[52brandon]

The level of talent on the left side is so drastically improved that whatever gap in continuity the time shortage creates will be compensated for by the new guys not sucking.

I think by sticking Niklas on the right will also improve that side beyond where it was last seasob as well. Regardless who is starting there. Losing Colledge at RG is gonna be felt. But the improvements on the left and at TE will more than compensate. I'm actually happy with the state and the direction of our line. For the first time... ever really

 

[CardLogic]

Cards may start a totally revamped OL with only 1 guy who started for the Cards last year, C Sendelien. We have a new LT, semi-rookie LG, semi-rookie RG and RT Massie along with a rookie TE. It normally takes some game time to get the OL in synch with one another and with the new union contract the pre-season work in pads is limited.


Is there enough time to get all these guys in sync? Our coaching staff did a great job last season but they have a big challenge to get ready by the time the season begins.

The least you could do is correctly identify the starting OL as it now stands. . .

LT - Valdheer
LG - Cooper
C - Sendlien
RG - Fanaika - 5th year NFL
LT - Sowell - 3rd year NFL
TE's - Ballard - 4th year; and Carlson - 7th year

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2014/05/20/lining-up-to-begin-otas/

Not exactly the picture of inexperience which you have painted.

 

[Redheart]

I expect they will practice a lot.

 

[GimmedaBall]

The least you could do is correctly identify the starting OL as it now stands. . .

LT - Valdheer
LG - Cooper
C - Sendlien
RG - Fanaika - 5th year NFL
LT - Sowell - 3rd year NFL
TE's - Ballard - 4th year; and Carlson - 7th year

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2014/05/20/lining-up-to-begin-otas/

Not exactly the picture of inexperience which you have painted.

I was using the OL as reported by the Rosenthal article.He was taking his guess at the starters, not at the players as they now stand. Different. Fanaika (SP?) was not rated very highly by Pro-Football Focus, ditto on Sowell. With Sowell, we went from the worst LT in the league in LB to the worst LT tackle in the league in Sowell. Also, we only need one LT. In your listing, you have both Valdheer and Sowell playing LT---who are you proposing to play RT?

 

[BigRedRage]

I was using the OL as reported by the Rosenthal article.He was taking his guess at the starters, not at the players as they now stand. Different. Fanaika (SP?) was not rated very highly by Pro-Football Focus, ditto on Sowell. With Sowell, we went from the worst LT in the league in LB to the worst LT tackle in the league in Sowell. Also, we only need one LT. In your listing, you have both Valdheer and Sowell playing LT---who are you proposing to play RT?

Assuming based on how he laid it out, he meant to say sowell at RT, not LT twice. Unless he has two left feet.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Assuming based on how he laid it out, he meant to say sowell at RT, not LT twice. Unless he has two left feet.

Actually what he meant to do was scold me because he had a different list for the OL compared to what I was talking about and in the process made a typo and gave the OL two LT.

 

[CardLogic]

Actually what he meant to do was scold me because he had a different list for the OL compared to what I was talking about and in the process made a typo and gave the OL two LT.

Yep.

I'm not saying that it can't change between now and the season, but don't you think the line practicing at first team is more accurate than some reporter that doesn't focus on the Cardinals assumptions.

Arians doesn't play games with the players, the guy's lining up at first team now will remain so, unless someone takes the job from them.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Plenty of good repsonses to the original question regarding our OL being able to play together. Let's hope all the optimism for this group translates into actual play. The one big factor is the way the coaching staff has taken the players and got them on the same page. I sure didn't expect a 10-6 season last year with the massive roster turnover and new faces everywhere in the organization. If any group of coaches can get us to the playoffs, I would look to our guys. Coach Goodwin deserves a lot of thanks for the OL. The scheme protected Palmer even with our makeshift line and an undrafted LT.

Watford and Massie have to perform. They've had their time on the bench to learn the system---both are draft choice investments by the Cards. At this point in time, we all need to lift those Kool-Aid cups high and toast our OL and coaches and hope the OL gels before the games count.

 

[GimmedaBall]

Yep.

I'm not saying that it can't change between now and the season, but don't you think the line practicing at first team is more accurate than some reporter that doesn't focus on the Cardinals assumptions.

Arians doesn't play games with the players, the guy's lining up at first team now will remain so, unless someone takes the job from them.

You asked a direct question regarding what I think about the first team as it now stands vs a reporter's guess of what the roster will look like. Why didn't you go that route first time around instead of playing a game of one-up?

The 'first team' after FA/Draft is a way to keep the veteran players on the roster motivated. The notion is that a new guy to the team, either via FA/Draft is going to have to 'earn' their spot. Right. Take a look at how many 1st round picks are listed behind last year's starter (the journeyman player who was injured and is on his last leg). The 'first team' means little at this point---it is 'first team' going into the season that counts. Rosenthal is an experienced sports writer and provides well-researched articles---he did a series on the projected starting lineups for all the teams, not just the Cards.

We are in trouble if the 'first team' OL is it. Recall last year when Winston was brought in the day before camp---and still got the starting nod. What does that say about our first team OL last year.

We need Watford and Massie to make that jump and man the right side of the line. They are draft choice by the Cards and have to pay off. Either that, or we are looking at the waiver wire and giving Winston a late call.

All coaches play 'games' including Arians. They have their philosophy on how to best motivate the players. Now you may like BA's style---but that is his game. Naming a 'first team' is the game to keep the old guys motivated to hold their job and the new guys thinking they have to earn their spot. It doesn't mean much more than that going into camp.

 

[GuernseyCard]

Yep.

I'm not saying that it can't change between now and the season, but don't you think the line practicing at first team is more accurate than some reporter that doesn't focus on the Cardinals assumptions.

Arians doesn't play games with the players, the guy's lining up at first team now will remain so, unless someone takes the job from them.

That is, in fact, Arians' game.

His way, his O-line coaches way, of keeping everyone motivated.

 

[Bert]

It's gonna be fine.

 

[Gee!]

Agree that Cards have brought in some talent. Here's the roster as projected by Pro=Football Focus in FEB. 2014 (before FA and draft additions):

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/02/17/projected-lineups-arizona-cardinals/

I have a hard time believing what they are saying on this website when they can't even get something as simple as a players age correct.. It isn't just one player, but a few..

 

[GimmedaBall]

I have a hard time believing what they are saying on this website when they can't even get something as simple as a players age correct.. It isn't just one player, but a few..

I see that they didn't underline Fitz's name to indicate that he is a player over thirty.

I didn't see anything in error regarding the roster. The evals look fair enough. Apart from the age, what errors are you seeing with the roster? (Remember, this is how we stood in Feb. 2014).

 

[Gee!]

I see that they didn't underline Fitz's name to indicate that he is a player over thirty.

I didn't see anything in error regarding the roster. The evals look fair enough. Apart from the age, what errors are you seeing with the roster? (Remember, this is how we stood in Feb. 2014).

Dockett and Alexander are 30 or over as well.. It wasn't just one player..