Not OT - The Knicks

[AzStevenCal]

I'm watching the Knicks training camp on NBA TV right now and something occurred to me. And because of it, I've decided to adopt the Knicks as my second favorite team and I'm going to cheer them on to an NBA championship in the next few years.

Many of us bemoan the lack of defense and low post play our Suns typically exhibit. At some point (after 40 plus years of history), perhaps it's time to just admit it's probably never going to change. If that's the case, the best thing that could happen to the Suns championship chances is for the Dantoni style to succeed.

If we can't change the Suns culture, perhaps the KNICKS can change the NBA postseason culture. The Suns are never going to be important enough for the NBA to change their postseason refereeing standards but New York is a completely different story. Just imagine a world where the calls made in June are the same ones made in January.

Steve

 

[The Commish]

I will never root for a team that is from New York or LA. Just not in my DNA.

I do wish D'Antoni and Amare well though.

 

[AzStevenCal]

I will never root for a team that is from New York or LA. Just not in my DNA.

I do wish D'Antoni and Amare well though.

I was expecting an "I will never root for a Dantoni coached team" or a "I will never root for a team with Amare on it" as the first response. I'm sure it's just a matter of time though.

I'm not too fond of NY either but as I said, success there could benefit us in the long run. Also, they actually have quite a bit of talent assembled. If Felton can continue to improve his shooting percentage he could be the perfect guard for Dantoni's system.

Steve

 

[Yuma]

I have no problem with NY basketball. It's those Boston and LA teams that continually keep us from the trophy!

 

[Mainstreet]

If we can't change the Suns culture, perhaps the KNICKS can change the NBA postseason culture. The Suns are never going to be important enough for the NBA to change their postseason refereeing standards but New York is a completely different story. Just imagine a world where the calls made in June are the same ones made in January.

Steve

The Knicks don't get any breaks from the NBA now so I don't see how they can help the Suns get any breaks come postseason even if the Knicks make the playoffs with a DA style offense. The Knicks have not had a winning season since 2000-01.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Knicks don't get any breaks from the NBA now so I don't see how they can help the Suns get any breaks come postseason even if the Knicks make the playoffs with a DA style offense. The Knicks have not had a winning season since 2000-01.

I'm not sure you got my point. I'm not suggesting there will be some conspiracy to anoint the Knicks or anything. And the refs certainly aren't going to cheat in order to make them relevant.

Look, when Dantoni turned our guys loose and they took the NBA by storm, the NBA (and the world) noticed and it influenced the way the game was called. Not enough mind you, but there was a change IMO. It didn't last long and it didn't make enough of a difference in postseason refereeing but it helped a little. I think it would have a much larger impact if the Knicks were to meet with success playing this style of ball. I'm talking about a process here though, not some overnight change.

It remains to be seen whether the Knicks can actually build to that type of success but I think they are close to a playoff team already. Honestly, if they had Nash there to back up each of their guard positions I think they'd have a chance to win a round or two. Felton is the right type of guard for this system (especially if he can continue to improve his shot) and they have a lot of length to play alongside and back up Amare.

Let the Knicks make it to the playoffs a few years in a row with this system all the while improving their postseason run and I think you could see quite a change in the way the game is played and called. Whether that eventually gets us closer to a championship is arguable but at least one of our more consistent obstacles would be removed from our path.

Steve

 

[jagu]

Yawwn, who cares about the Knicks and who cares about D'Antoni's system which still to this day hasn't produced a championship. Do you really think a coach's system will change the officiating? No way. First of all, D'antoni's system is pretty simple.. run and shoot and play no defense. There's not much that can be called there by the refs other than whistles on the fouls the poorly trained players D'antoni has working for him because they aren't taught defensive fundamentals.

It's a big man's game and teams with quality big men go far (Duncan, Gasol, Garnett) and teams that don't have that fall out of it. Are your saying that the league would be better off if everyone ran around 100 mph with no defensive strategy? I prefer a league with smart players and a smart game like Grant Hill. Not 5 Amare's running around with brute athleticism and 0 intelligence.

 

[Lefty]

Who cares. You can be this board's Andrew. I grew up in the New York area and Knick fans are one of the most loyal fans out there. I bet they don't want any bandwagon fans jumping aboard.

 

[Mulli]

Why wouldn't fans want bandwagon fans? Who cares?

 

[AzStevenCal]

Who cares. You can be this board's Andrew. I grew up in the New York area and Knick fans are one of the most loyal fans out there. I bet they don't want any bandwagon fans jumping aboard.

Gee, that's quite a compliment Lefty. What exactly, in my post, warrants the Andrew label? I'm not planning on taking my act to the Knicks board or to YouTube. I'm just pointing out that we've never played physical defense, we're not likely to ever play physical defense and as a 40 years Suns fan I want a championship. And, I think our best chance of getting one in the time I have left on this planet is if Dantoni's finesse and offense oriented approach effects a change in the way the game is reffed.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

Gee, that's quite a compliment Lefty. What exactly, in my post, warrants the Andrew label? I'm not planning on taking my act to the Knicks board or to YouTube. I'm just pointing out that we've never played physical defense, we're not likely to ever play physical defense and as a 40 years Suns fan I want a championship. And, I think our best chance of getting one in the time I have left on this planet is if Dantoni's finesse and offense oriented approach effects a change in the way the game is reffed.

Steve

Don't hold your breath.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Don't hold your breath.

You may be right, but the exact same response is appropriate when someone suggests the Suns will adopt a physical style of play. Actually, perhaps even moreso as the NBA has gone for stretches where fast, non-physical basketball has succeeded but in 40 plus years the Suns have never played a rugged style of ball.

Steve

 

[Mulli]

You may be right, but the exact same response is appropriate when someone suggests the Suns will adopt a physical style of play. Actually, perhaps even moreso as the NBA has gone for stretches where fast, non-physical basketball has succeeded but in 40 plus years the Suns have never played a rugged style of ball.

Steve

True. Very true.

 

[HooverDam]

First of all, D'antoni's system is pretty simple..

this is a terrifically ignorant statement. Don't you remember Kobe at the Olympics talking about how complex the offense is? How every play has a million variations and ways it can switch? Remember how D'Antoni and the Suns in part lured Nash here? It was with a giant playbook D'Antoni brought.

If you don't like the guy, thats fine. But to say he's not a really good coach or to say his offensive system is "pretty simple" is just stupid and flatly not true.

 

[pokerface]

I want an epic fail for the Knicks.


I want the Heat to dominate.


I want the Suns to shock the NBA world.

 

[mojorizen7]

If the NBA were to somehow adopt the fun n gun style of basketball leaguewide, it will most certainly be the year Nash retires and the SUNS decide to finally go the other way.....go big,preach defense,rebounding.

The Suns 0-42 championship history attempting to do it "their way" dictates the reasoning behind my hypothesis.

 

[AzStevenCal]

If the NBA were to somehow adopt the fun n gun style of basketball leaguewide, it will most certainly be the year Nash retires and the SUNS decide to finally go the other way.....go big,preach defense,rebounding.

The Suns 0-42 championship history attempting to do it "their way" dictates the reasoning behind my hypothesis.

Yeah, that would be my luck. We'd find our own version of Bill Russell and the league would put an end to physical play down low.

Steve

 

[Mainstreet]

If the NBA were to somehow adopt the fun n gun style of basketball leaguewide, it will most certainly be the year Nash retires and the SUNS decide to finally go the other way.....go big,preach defense,rebounding.

The Suns 0-42 championship history attempting to do it "their way" dictates the reasoning behind my hypothesis.

Do you really think the Suns would have turned down the opportunity to draft Kareem or David Robinson given the opportunity? If your hypothesis is that the Suns have been unable to get a quality big man (besides Amare) because of bad luck or they have been too good good over the years to wander around in the NBA sewer then you are right.

 

[mojorizen7]

Do you really think the Suns would have turned down the opportunity to draft Kareem or David Robinson given the opportunity? If your hypothesis is that the Suns have been unable to get a quality big man (besides Amare) because of bad luck or they have been too good good over the years to wander around in the NBA sewer then you are right.

The Suns play the style of basketball that they do because this the style of basketball that they want to play.....same freedom of choice as all the other NBA teams. LOL

Why is this fact so hard to digest?

 

[mojorizen7]

Do you really think the Suns would have turned down the opportunity to draft Kareem or David Robinson given the opportunity? .

To answer your question probably not. However this is professional sports,where teams are allowed to "create" opportunities. The Suns have historically created opportunities to play the style of basketball they're notorious for playing.
Our history of drafting,aquiring and grooming outstanding PG's and offensive players is a fine example of this.

 

[Mainstreet]

The Suns play the style of basketball that they do because this the style of basketball that they want to play.....same as all the other NBA teams.

Why is this fact so hard to digest?

The Suns have always played to their strength rather than play a style of physical basketball they did not have the players to implement. I'd rather the Suns play to their level of talent that wallow in mediocrity trying to playing a style of physical basketball that would have resulted in years of losing. In the modern NBA playing losing basketball does not mean a team can guarantee getting a franchise player.

 

[mojorizen7]

Yeah, that would be my luck. We'd find our own version of Bill Russell and the league would put an end to physical play down low.

Steve

That would be to much to bear.
Back to reality though,i think this is the first season as a Suns fan that i've come to grips with the reality that PHX will never change the basketball culture here....ever.
I've found some peace in that.
I no longer look at it in terms of being a frustrated fan....only in terms of they want to be who they are and thats that.
I cant keep hoping and wishing for a culture change to become what i deem to be the blueprint of ultimate success to suddenly bestow itself upon downtown PHX.

....but i've definately seperated myself a bit from the passion i've had over the last 25 years for Suns basketball as a result. (sigh) I cant get 100% behind what i deem to be futility. I hope they have another nice season.

Back to your OP: Although like you said,it would certainly put D'Antoni's Knicks in an enviable position....and think of the lovefest in Golden State?
The Spurs would instantly become the NBA's whipping boy. I can see coaches like Popovich and Phil Jackson going homicidal on the refs during the 1st week of preseason.

 

[Errntknght]

Yeah, that would be my luck. We'd find our own version of Bill Russell and the league would put an end to physical play down low.

Steve

Bill Russell was not a particularly physical player... certainly nothing like his contemporary Wilt Chamberlain. The latter was the reason the league kept widening the lane, not Russell. In fact, the Celtics had various 'hatchet' guys that took the floor when some dirty work was needed. Tom Heinsohn was not in that category but he was notably more physical than Russell.

Bill would be right at home with the run and gun Suns. He'd protect the paint, hammer the boards and throw great outlet passes to the other guys streaking upfloor - just like he did with the Celtics of his day. Sheesh with someone like him, we'd be the odds on favorite to with the title regardless of the refs.

 

[Errntknght]

this is a terrifically ignorant statement. Don't you remember Kobe at the Olympics talking about how complex the offense is? How every play has a million variations and ways it can switch? Remember how D'Antoni and the Suns in part lured Nash here? It was with a giant playbook D'Antoni brought.

If you don't like the guy, thats fine. But to say he's not a really good coach or to say his offensive system is "pretty simple" is just stupid and flatly not true.

This is puzzling... it starts out totally tongue in cheek and then switches - or does it? I'm not at all sure that Hoover even knows. Jagu hasn't bothered to respond yet so maybe he does know that its all tongue in cheek.

 

[AzStevenCal]

This is puzzling... it starts out totally tongue in cheek and then switches - or does it? I'm not at all sure that Hoover even knows. Jagu hasn't bothered to respond yet so maybe he does know that its all tongue in cheek.

It wasn't tongue and cheek at all. There really were a lot of positive comments about the inticracies of Dantoni's offense by the olympics team. Much was made also about how effective his designed plays out of TO's were.

Steve