Oh no. USC on probabtion????????????????

[Southpaw]

Could it be?

Tale of the tapes?
By Jason Cole and Charles Robinson, Yahoo! Sports
January 24, 2007

SAN DIEGO – A federal investigation into extortion claims by New Orleans Saints running back Reggie Bush and his family has revealed the existence of taped conversations that could confirm Bush took cash and gifts while he was playing football for the University of Southern California.

Lloyd Lake, an investor in a failed sports marketing agency which attempted to launch with Bush as its first client, is the subject of a grand jury probe into the extortion claims. The agency – called New Era Sports & Entertainment – was founded by Lake and San Diego businessman Michael Michaels. Lake told Yahoo! Sports in August 2006 that he contributed a portion of the cash and gifts allegedly given to Bush and his family as part of an agreement to represent the then-USC running back when he signed an NFL contract.

According to multiple sources in an ongoing Yahoo! Sports investigation, nearly $280,000 in cash, rent and gifts was allegedly given to Bush and his family. Lake and Michaels both said in August 2006 that they planned to file a lawsuit against Bush.

The U.S. District Attorney's office in San Diego has issued grand jury subpoenas to multiple witnesses in the probe since October, requiring them to appear before federal investigators. According to a copy of a subpoena obtained by Yahoo! Sports, at least one of the witnesses was asked to produce "any recordings in your possession of conversations between Lloyd Lake and Reggie Bush, Denise Griffin, or LaMar Griffin." Denise Griffin is Bush's mother. LaMar Griffin is Bush's stepfather.

If such taped conversations involving Bush become public, Bush and USC could face penalties from the NCAA and Pacific-10 Conference, which are conducting ongoing investigations into reports of extra benefits.

If the NCAA rules that Bush received extra benefits during his playing career at USC, he could be ruled retroactively ineligible. Since some of the benefits date to the 2004 season, the Trojans' national championship that season could be rescinded. USC could face further NCAA sanctions and Bush's 2005 Heisman Trophy could be in jeopardy. The Heisman ballot indicates that an athlete must meet NCAA eligibility requirements to be considered for college football's most prestigious award.

"I respectfully decline to comment on the media frenzy regarding Reggie Bush, his family and his college career," David Cornwell, Bush's attorney, said Wednesday.

The NCAA declined to comment on its investigation, except to ask that anyone with information regarding the allegations against Bush and his family come forward. The NCAA has interviewed numerous sources in the matter, including USC coaches and officials and business associates directly and indirectly involved with Bush.

Yahoo! Sports has learned that LaMar Griffin spoke with federal investigators in the spring of 2006 and acknowledged the existence of the tapes. In an appearance before a grand jury on Jan. 12, 2007, Lake's mother – Barbara Gunner – testified that she had heard portions of tapes made by her son, in which LaMar Griffin states that Bush intended to repay New Era Sports financiers "their money," as well as for a car that was purchased for the former USC running back.

Multiple sources told Yahoo! Sports that Lake made the tapes in late 2005 to protect his financial investment if Bush backed out of their alleged agreement. New Era's goal of landing Bush as a client officially failed when Bush signed to be represented by agent Joel Segal and marketing agent Mike Ornstein in January of 2006.

Lake and Michaels told Yahoo! Sports in April 2006 that Bush and his family agreed to be partners in New Era Sports in 2004, then backed out of the venture after accepting the finances Lake and Michaels provided as part of the deal. The bulk of the benefits Lake and Michaels claim they gave to Bush and his family – including direct cash payments, rent-free living in a new home, paying off credit card debt and money for a car for Bush – were allegedly provided over a one-year period starting in late 2004.

In April 2006, Yahoo! Sports first revealed allegations that Bush and his family received extra benefits, including $54,000 in rent-free living at Michaels' $757,500 home in Spring Valley, Calif., according to Michaels and San Diego attorney Brian Watkins.

Yahoo! Sports also reported the Bush family received $28,000 from New Era financiers to settle pre-existing debt, according to Michaels and Watkins. Yahoo! Sports also reported that Bush received approximately $18,000 to purchase and upgrade a car while he was still a student at USC.

On Sept. 14, 2006, Yahoo! Sports published findings of an ongoing investigation that revealed that Bush and his family appeared to have accepted benefits worth more than $100,000 from two groups of marketing agents. The report came after Yahoo! Sports reviewed multiple travel records, documents and receipts. In addition to Lake and Michaels, extra benefits appear to have been supplied by Ornstein, Bush's current marketing agent.

NCAA by-law 12.3.1.2 states that an athlete shall be deemed ineligible if he or she accepts benefits from agents or marketing representatives. The rule further states that student-athletes, their family or friends cannot receive benefits or loans from agents. Additionally, NCAA by-law 12.1.2.1.6 states that athletes cannot receive preferential treatment, benefits or services because of the individual's athletics reputation or skill or pay-back potential as a professional athlete, unless such treatment, benefits or services are specifically permitted under NCAA legislation.

Cornwell responded to the initial reports in April by claiming that Bush and his family were victims of an extortion plot. Cornwell eventually spoke with federal authorities about the matter, claiming that Lake and Michaels tried to coerce Bush into paying the money. Griffin then told a federal investigator that Lake threatened to make the tapes public if the money was not repaid.

Gunner and Lake's former girlfriend, Maiesha Jones, have both testified before the grand jury. Lake's sister, Lisa Lake, voluntarily spoke with federal investigators. Gunner explained to the grand jury that she provided at least $60,000 to her son to help finance the business. According to a source close to the case, Jones told the grand jury about the business relationship between Lloyd Lake, Michaels and Bush.

The extortion probe has produced no formal charges. Lloyd Lake was recently released from a one-year prison term for a parole violation in conjunction with a previous drug-related conviction. If brought up on extortion charges, he could face a maximum two-year sentence. He also faces a domestic violence charge in California from an incident with Jones.

Bush just completed his rookie NFL season, helping the Saints reach the NFC championship game for the first time in team history. Bush had 565 yards rushing on 155 carries this season and had 88 receptions for 742 yards after being the No. 2 overall pick in the 2006 draft. He scored nine touchdowns in the regular season.

Bush has said that he and his family did nothing wrong in regard to the allegations of receiving extra benefits. Bush has not talked to federal investigators in the extortion probe. He also has not cooperated with the investigation by the NCAA, which does not have subpoena power.

According to a report first published by Foxsports.com, Bush requested a sideline pass from his alma mater for the 2007 Rose Bowl but USC declined, stating that it had already distributed its allotment of VIP passes.

USC coach Pete Carroll was questioned about Bush's absence from the Rose Bowl on a Los Angeles radio program on Jan. 2, the morning after the game. Radio host and Los Angeles Times columnist T.J. Simers asked Carroll: "You saw the reports that Reggie was told not to come to the Rose Bowl, to stay away from USC. Do you buy that? Do you have anything to do with that?"

Responded Carroll: "No. I know that through this investigation, because he's not cooperating the way they'd like it, there's some issues about that. Reggie gets to do whatever he wants to do. He's not part of us anymore and we can't control any of that. But there's some, I think some opinions from the NCAA that they're mad at Reggie. And, you know, they would not like him to be associated with us. But I don't know what's going on with all that. But there is some stuff.

"I did call Reggie and he didn't hear from anybody about any of that kind of stuff. We're just going to keep working along the best we can and try to keep our head above water and do the right thing and stay out of that stuff. But that stuff, it is kind of nasty. You just don't know where it's coming from and people are out to get you. It can get kind of hard."

Charles Robinson and Jason Cole are national NFL writers for Yahoo! Sports. Send Charles or Jason a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

 

[boisesuns]

Heard about this. I wonder what kind of probation they would get? No BCS maybe? It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[Russ Smith]

The obvious thing is if Bush took the money, he was an ineligible player and he could forfeit the Heisman and USC could forfeit games over that.

USC fans are still clinging to the he did it on his own, he's not here now any punishment is on him mantra but I think they just don't want to face reality that they could wind up forfeiting some games over this.

http://mb25.scout.com/fuscfansfrm1.showMessage?topicID=127035.topic

I think the question is how much culpability does USC have here is this a rogue player or is this just the first one to get caught?

One guy on that thread I linked makes a very interesting point, if Bush had never complained about extortion, this tape stuff maybe never comes out?

The Pete Carroll comments are interesting sure sounds to me like he's pissed off at Bush but doesn't want to come out and say it? I think he's masking it by saying
its' the NCAA that's mad at Bush, but I suspect it's him and USC that feels Bush isn't cooperating and is making things worse?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

USC will probably have to forfeit games and maybe lose a couple scholarships, but they will not face any severe sanctions unless the NCAA can prove that boosters or USC officials knew about any wrongdoings.

 

[Mulli]

USC will probably have to forfeit games and maybe lose a couple scholarships, but they will not face any severe sanctions unless the NCAA can prove that boosters or USC officials knew about any wrongdoings.

Yes, Koetter did win games in California. Thanks Mao.

 

[Southpaw]

The obvious thing is if Bush took the money, he was an ineligible player and he could forfeit the Heisman and USC could forfeit games over that.

USC fans are still clinging to the he did it on his own, he's not here now any punishment is on him mantra but I think they just don't want to face reality that they could wind up forfeiting some games over this.

http://mb25.scout.com/fuscfansfrm1.showMessage?topicID=127035.topic

I think the question is how much culpability does USC have here is this a rogue player or is this just the first one to get caught?

One guy on that thread I linked makes a very interesting point, if Bush had never complained about extortion, this tape stuff maybe never comes out?

The Pete Carroll comments are interesting sure sounds to me like he's pissed off at Bush but doesn't want to come out and say it? I think he's masking it by saying
its' the NCAA that's mad at Bush, but I suspect it's him and USC that feels Bush isn't cooperating and is making things worse?

Probably the same greed that allowed him to take the money is now compelling him to go into denial in an attempt to keep the spoils of his greed. Maybe his character is so self absorbed that he has no rules and can't admit to his indiscretions. If he loses this case, he would have to forfeit income and future earnings. Reggie probbaly can't handle that, so screw USC. Reggie is muy importante.

 

[Russ Smith]

This is perhaps the best post I've ever read in defense of cheating. This is so beyond the norm it's amazing. It's like that part in Terminator when the psychiatrist talks about how perfect Reese's dementia is because he thinks he's from the future. I can't believe this person actually believes this, but apparently he does.

"Try this idea on for size: I think even if the entire Bush fiasco results in tremendous sanctions for USC, it won’t impact USC football very much at all. I believe that college football has moved so far away from what the NCAA rules believe the sport to be, that anything short of taking away a majority of the team’s scholarships will have no effect on the program. I don’t mean to sound like an arrogant Notre Dame fan, but I think USC has become so much larger than college football, that the disapproval of the NCAA wouldn’t mean anything.

Why is USC successful? It’s because they have the best players. They have the best players because they have good coaching, but mostly because high school players are aware that it is an almost perfect stage to showcase themselves on the national level and get to the professional ranks.

The NCAA is operating in a world of “student athletes” rather than “athletes at a university.” As a high school football player, your goal has to be to go pro and make as much money as possible with the football talents you have. It’s the same as a good high school student that wants to follow the best possible path to medical school or law school. You go where you have the best chance for professional success. That said, high school players see that USC has effectively become (for better or worse) a semi-pro team. Playing for USC means weekly national exposure as well as national discussion about your games. The offense is tailor-made for offensive players to look good to professional observers. Consider this: Reggie Bush and Lorenzo Booker were similar recruits who went to dramatically different programs. Look what USC did to maximize Bush’s ability to cash in at the highest level. Recruits notice that.

That said, why would anything short of complete scholarship elimination prohibit this from continuing? Do you think recruits care that they won’t get to play in the national championship game. As much as we may care about the national championship game, the real big day for college football players is the NFL draft. If USC continues to have strong coaching and continues to put players into high draft positions, they’ll continue to get high recruiting classes. If they continue to get the best recruiting classes, they’ll continue to win throughout the regular season.

If USC is banned from post-season play, people will still know that they could have played with and probably beaten the “national champions.” It will add even more illegitimacy to the national championship game because people will know that any national championship not involving USC is phony. It may sound arrogant, but look at what happened with the 2004 Rose Bowl. It wasn’t the national championship game until Pete Carroll told everyone “this is the national championship game now.” What happened? It became the national championship game.

So to everyone that thinks this could be doomsday, I think you’re underestimating the power the Carroll and USC wield with college football. The NCAA doesn’t run college football. ABC, Fox and CBS run it, and they follow whichever story will bring in the ratings. USC is like Notre Dame – they’re too big for the NCAA to have any sway over. If the NCAA tries to take on USC over this whole Bush fiasco, I think it will only point out how silly their rules are. The NCAA wants to rake in millions while prohibiting the players who make them that money from seeing any of that money (even when it comes from third parties who don’t even deal with the NCAA). It’s a silly system, and it will one day be exposed when the players and teams show that they are more important to the NCAA than the NCAA is important to them. What better place for that the happen then at USC?"

 

[Russ Smith]

Probably the same greed that allowed him to take the money is now compelling him to go into denial in an attempt to keep the spoils of his greed. Maybe his character is so self absorbed that he has no rules and can't admit to his indiscretions. If he loses this case, he would have to forfeit income and future earnings. Reggie probbaly can't handle that, so screw USC. Reggie is muy importante.

Yeah assuming this is true I really wonder how it's going to impact Reggie's reputation? I mean cheating is one thing but we all pretty much know athletes get some extras. But cheating, taking money from people in exchange for some future thing, and then screwing them over by not giving them what you promised them or giving them their money back?

That's got to make a big dent in Reggie's image if proven true.

 

[1usctrojan]

Yeah assuming this is true I really wonder how it's going to impact Reggie's reputation? I mean cheating is one thing but we all pretty much know athletes get some extras. But cheating, taking money from people in exchange for some future thing, and then screwing them over by not giving them what you promised them or giving them their money back?

That's got to make a big dent in Reggie's image if proven true.

It has already made a big dent in Reggie's reputation at USC, what a sordid mess....if the University knew about this, then sanctions are justified.....if Reggie did in fact take money and gifts, then strip the Heisman from him and he will have to live with that. Unfortunately, most of us who have been around Reggie feel that this has more to do with his parents - specifically his stepfather. I want the truth....and face sanctions if indeed the University is at fault for not watching closely enough....if we forfeit games - then so be it; but I stress, nothing, NOTHING will take away the wins on the field - if the '04 National Title is taken away, it does not wipe out the score: USC 55 Oklahoma 19...we will rebound from this, even if the worst happens.

 

[Scot1]

nothing, NOTHING will take away the wins on the field - if the '04 National Title is taken away, it does not wipe out the score: USC 55 Oklahoma 19

I'm sorry, this is a little silly. If USC 'won' with one dirty, disqualified player who contributed on the field, then they didn't win at all, any more than if they bribed the scoreboard official to put up those numbers. The fact that Bush was the best player on the USC team, and affected plays where he didn't even touch the ball, makes it worse. You can think of every play where they handed or threw him the ball as a fumble that wasn't called till now. The reason they're declared losers is because they cheated to win.

Frankly, forfeiting games is much too small a penalty, as is stripping a few scholarships. The NCAA needs to use the death penalty much more frequently, and very definitely must use it when the guilty player 'wins' the Heisman and the guilty team 'wins' the national championship. Gut a few programs, and cheating would go down radically--maybe starting when the colleges sue their bribe-spouting 'boosters' for all they're worth.

 

[1usctrojan]

I'm sorry, this is a little silly. If USC 'won' with one dirty, disqualified player who contributed on the field, then they didn't win at all, any more than if they bribed the scoreboard official to put up those numbers. The fact that Bush was the best player on the USC team, and affected plays where he didn't even touch the ball, makes it worse. You can think of every play where they handed or threw him the ball as a fumble that wasn't called till now. The reason they're declared losers is because they cheated to win.

Frankly, forfeiting games is much too small a penalty, as is stripping a few scholarships. The NCAA needs to use the death penalty much more frequently, and very definitely must use it when the guilty player 'wins' the Heisman and the guilty team 'wins' the national championship. Gut a few programs, and cheating would go down radically--maybe starting when the colleges sue their bribe-spouting 'boosters' for all they're worth.

Oh....a bitter little rival....sorry the win is still a win rather you like it or not, and it will be remembered as such, maybe this is the only way some of you could win against us....Reggie was not the only player on the field that day by far - strip the NC, leave the winner blank then, because USC won it on the field. If Reggie loses the Heisman, will Vince get it - no, would he want it? No, he lost it by a landslide so the Heisman should be forfeit for that year. All this is assuming that all allegations are true and that USC knew about it. Be careful what you wish for.....there are many powerful alumni at USC who might just want to put pressure on the NCAA to investigate other universities...maybe yours. We will see how clean they are.

 

[Southpaw]

USC probes possible recruiting violation

Oooooops. The coincidences and denials keep coming.

USC probes possible recruiting violation

17 minutes ago

LOS ANGELES - Southern California is looking into whether it may have violated NCAA recruiting rules while pursuing highly rated recruit Joe McKnight, a university official said.


McKnight signed a national letter of intent with USC on Wednesday and made comments during a news conference that seemed to suggest communications involving former Trojan Reggie Bush, who is now with the New Orleans Saints.

Former players are forbidden from telephoning prospective recruits, their relatives or guardians.

"We're aware of it, and we are looking into it," sports information director Tim Tessalone told The Associated Press late Thursday.

The university's action was first reported by the Los Angeles Times on its Web site late Thursday.

USC coach Pete Carroll denied any call took place, and McKnight's high school football coach said the recruit misspoke during the news conference. The star running back has been living with his high school coach, J.T. Curtis.

"It never happened," Carroll told the Times.

During the Wednesday news conference, McKnight said Carroll set up a conference call so he and Curtis could talk to Bush and ease concerns USC might face sanctions.

The NCAA and the Pac-10 Conference are investigating whether Bush or his family received "improper benefits" from agents while he was playing for USC.

Regarding McKnight, Mike Matthews, associate commissioner of compliance for the Pac- 10, said boosters are not supposed to be involved in the recruiting process but could not comment without knowing specifics. NCAA spokeswoman Crissy Schluep also said she could not comment without knowing more.

Curtis told the Times on Thursday that he spoke to Carroll during McKnight's recruitment, but not on a conference call with McKnight or Bush. He also said McKnight told him "Coach Carroll was talking to Reggie on the speakerphone and Joe was able to listen and hear Reggie Bush's side of the story," the newspaper reported.

After being informed of Carroll's denial Thursday night, Curtis called McKnight and later said the recruit never heard Bush on a speakerphone.

"He said when they came in his house, the discussion was brought up about probation and that's when the conversation came up that they had talked to Reggie, but Joe was not there," Curtis said. "He said, 'I was not on the speakerphone. I never called him and he never called me. I want to make it clear I never spoke to Reggie and he never spoke to me. I just messed it up. I shouldn't have said it that way (at the news conference).'"

Curtis said McKnight may have been overwhelmed by the attention and scrutiny that accompanied his announcement.

"At the press conference, it seemed like he got 1,000 questions in five minutes," Curtis said. "If you saw what was going on it would be easier to understand."

 

[Russ Smith]

Hate to say it but I feel sorry for McKnight it sure sounds like he had no idea he was revealing a violation when he said that and now he's going to have to take one for the team and start off his college career by lying to NCAA investigators to keep Pete Carroll clean.

Jim Harrick did the same thing to Michael Holton, but Holton refused to lie and UCLA wound up firing Harrick over it. Anybody think USC will fire Carroll it it turns out McKnight's original story was true?

If you really stop and think about it who amongst us hasn't announced at a press conference we'd spoken to a former Heisman trophy winner and then realized the next day that in fact that never really happened and we just misspoke?

 

[abomb]

That new stuff is just crazy.

 

[Russ Smith]

In McKnight's defense he is an 18-19 year old kid and could be overwhelmed
in that situation obviously. But I gotta admit it's awfully hard for me to believe that he was confused when he said what he said.

On the surface it seems pretty inoccuous a recruit is naturally going to want to know if the school he's committing to might face NCAA sanctions that could impact his career. But given how long the Bush stuff has been out there you'd think USC would have a way to resolve those questions that doesn't violate NCAA rules in the process?

 

[Southpaw]

I find it more believable that he did talk to Bush and didn't know it was a violation, than he just made it all up about talking to Bush. This one may not go away. I figure LSU is more than pissed that McKnight didn't go with the Bayou boys and just may raise a fuss. They play rough in the SEC.

 

[Russ Smith]

I find it more believable that he did talk to Bush and didn't know it was a violation, than he just made it all up about talking to Bush. This one may not go away. I figure LSU is more than pissed that McKnight didn't go with the Bayou boys and just may raise a fuss. They play rough in the SEC.

Come on Wally you never announced on a national radio show that you'd spoken to a recent Heisman trophy winner and then realized the next day it never happened?

It's blatantly obvious like that other kid who bragged about getting stuff that was an NCAA violation during recruiting and when the NCAA started investigating he said what you took that seriously, I was joking. McKnight is an 18-19 year old kid, he had no idea talking to Bush was against the rules, USC is supposed to know that, not him.

It doesn't sound like a major violation to me the kid clearly wanted to go to USC just wanted some insight into the Bush investigation so he doesn't commit to a school that winds up on probation (barring him from Bowl games). The kid didn't do anything wrong but it sure looks like he's now taking the fall for USC.

There's a great thread on wearesc about this and how it's just a witch hunt. Right near a thread complaining how Cal kept recruiting Brandon Carswell even after he verballed to USC(not cool says USC fans). Not far away is a thread congratulating Riki Ellison's son for changing his mind on his verbal commitment and accepting the late offer from USC. Apparently that's different than Cal recruiting Carswell?

 

[Southpaw]

How about the conversation with Bush was " the close ".

Like, hey impressionable kid, " wanna talk to Reggie Bush "???

Reggie then says; "Hey Joey, USC is so cool. You get all kinds of stuff, like I did. Do your parents need a place to stay out here? There is this really bitchin; house down in San Diego. Rent free. "

 

[Mulli]

You guys are just haters.

 

[Russ Smith]

You guys are just haters.

How did 40 put it? McKnight is "Falling on the sword" to protect Pete Carroll.

 

[abomb]

How about the conversation with Bush was " the close ".

Like, hey impressionable kid, " wanna talk to Reggie Bush "???

Reggie then says; "Hey Joey, USC is so cool. You get all kinds of stuff, like I did. Do your parents need a place to stay out here? There is this really bitchin; house down in San Diego. Rent free. "

"I can also get you a nice deal on some area-code eyeblack."

 

[Scot1]

Oh....a bitter little rival....sorry the win is still a win rather you like it or not, and it will be remembered as such, ....

Thanks for visiting the board, 1usctrojan, with this sterling comment. You might work on your grammar--it's interesting to see the results of an SC education. Thanks too for calling me 'little'--I've been on a diet--glad to hear that it's working. As for the win, no doubt it will be remembered as a win by SC fans; other Pac 10 fans may remember it as part of the 'dirty USC years.' Or they'll forget it, if they can. My point was that it Shouldn't be remembered as a win if a rightly ineligible player contributed to it, any more than if the scorekeeper had been bribed. As for wiping off the NC trophy, why shouldn't they award it to the second team? See the practice in horse-racing.

Sadly, I realize that truly respectable wins are not as common as they should be in big-college sports. I myself would reverse 'wins' where there's clear evidence that a ref's mistake was responsible, too, but that's me, hoping for the truth. And if it turned out that one of the dirtiest programs was ASU's, I'd be sad/angry about the death penalty being applied, but I would think it was legitimate if it helped get rid of the monetary excesses that cause fans to think they've been robbed--because they were!