OT: Draft Question

[Bodha]

Just stumbled upon another brain buster.


The draft.



Do we need the draft in order to sign guys? Think about that. Technically, couldnt we go down to WV right now and offer Geno Smith 10 million to quit college and come play for us on Monday?

These guys are civilians. The reason There is college football is so they can build up their NFL resume. But really we could sign anyone off the streets to play for us. We signed a punter who never played American FB in his life.

As long as they are old enough (whatever the age limit is), we could sign any college player in the country right now as long as they quit school first (I think there may be a rule about taking active NCAA players mid season).


Interesting.

Lets go shopping

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Just stumbled upon another brain buster.


The draft.



Do we need the draft in order to sign guys? Think about that. Technically, couldnt we go down to WV right now and offer Geno Smith 10 million to quit college and come play for us on Monday?

These guys are civilians. The reason There is college football is so they can build up their NFL resume. But really we could sign anyone off the streets to play for us. We signed a punter who never played American FB in his life.

As long as they are old enough (whatever the age limit is), we could sign any college player in the country right now as long as they quit school first (I think there may be a rule about taking active NCAA players mid season).


Interesting.

Lets go shopping

College players that are eligible for the draft must go into the draft. They cannot skip it to bypass the rookie pay scale, etc.

Football players who have been out of high school for at least three years are eligible for the NFL draft. The rules do not state that a player must attend college, but virtually all of the players selected in the NFL draft played college football. A year as a redshirt player in college counts toward eligibility even though the player was not allowed to participate in games during that year. Therefore players who have completed their redshirt sophomore year can enter the NFL draft. A few players are also selected from other football leagues like the Arena Football League or the Canadian Football League.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

We signed a punter who never played American FB in his life.

Who?

 

[Jetstream Green]

The Cardinals are not a single entity, they are a franchise of the NFL. The Cardinals, the Eagles all of them are one...the NFL. The NFL sets rules for their franchises and their singular product. If the Cards where not part of the NFL, yes they could probably offer a contract but who the hell would pay to seem them play nobody unless they formed their own league, a league I doubt any college player would say, "there is fame and fortune in that"

 

[Mulli]

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[Russ Smith]

Who?

I assume he meant Ben Graham, who was Australian.

We also drafted a kid who never played a minute of college football in Eric Swann.

You can't just quit college and sign in the NFL as a FA.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

I assume he meant Ben Graham, who was Australian.

Graham had played for two different NFL clubs when we signed him so he wouldn't qualify as someone we signed who had never played American football in his entire life...

 

[kerouac9]

The Cardinals are not a single entity, they are a franchise of the NFL. The Cardinals, the Eagles all of them are one...the NFL. The NFL sets rules for their franchises and their singular product. If the Cards where not part of the NFL, yes they could probably offer a contract but who the hell would pay to seem them play nobody unless they formed their own league, a league I doubt any college player would say, "there is fame and fortune in that"

I actually don't think that's exactly the case. The NFL is an organization of independent businesses. The NFL doesn't pay the franchises; the Cards write checks to the NFL, and get back revenue-sharing from elsewhere. That's why people like Andrew Brandt (whom I find as insufferable as he is informative) repeat endlessly that Roger Goddell serves at the pleasure of his ownership.

The NFL is registered as a non-profit organization. They make gob-loads of revenue, but end up distributing all the profits back to ownership.

 

[Russ Smith]

Graham had played for two different NFL clubs when we signed him so he wouldn't qualify as someone we signed who had never played American football in his entire life...

Well yea if you want to be accurate.

 

[Bodha]

College players that are eligible for the draft must go into the draft. They cannot skip it to bypass the rookie pay scale, etc.

Football players who have been out of high school for at least three years are eligible for the NFL draft. The rules do not state that a player must attend college, but virtually all of the players selected in the NFL draft played college football. A year as a redshirt player in college counts toward eligibility even though the player was not allowed to participate in games during that year. Therefore players who have completed their redshirt sophomore year can enter the NFL draft. A few players are also selected from other football leagues like the Arena Football League or the Canadian Football League.

If a JR. In college (3 years out of HS) quits College, he is therefore no longer a college player.

Thats my angle. If a kid quits school, quits FB, quits the NCAA, then those rules no longer apply to him. He is a civilian.

Will this ever happen? No.

My question is CAN it. I honstley think its a real possibility.

Who?

Graham.

Close enough. He didnt play College FB, thats the point.

 

[PDXChris]

Who?

Mr. Know It All did not know that Ben Graham played int he NFL for four seasons before joining the Cardinals.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/G/GrahBe20.htm

 

[kerouac9]

If a JR. In college (3 years out of HS) quits College, he is therefore no longer a college player.

Thats my angle. If a kid quits school, quits FB, quits the NCAA, then those rules no longer apply to him. He is a civilian.

Will this ever happen? No.

My question is CAN it. I honstley think its a real possibility.

He is not a college player, but he is a football player, which is what the rule states.

Basically, if you have eligibility for the draft (not in college, 3 years out of high school), you can be drafted. Look at what happened with Drew Henson. He was drafted by the Dallas Cowboys in the 6th round of the NFL draft in the year that he was eligible. If no one had drafted him that year, he would've been a street free agent like anyone else.

You can't sign an inelgible player. If a guy sits out a year after he's drafted, he can be drafted again the next year (like what happened with Bo Jackson). Only when an eligible player gets passed over by the entire league does he become a free agent.

All contracts have to be verified by the NFL and NFLPA. It's not like you're going to sneak one through.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

He is not a college player, but he is a football player, which is what the rule states.

Basically, if you have eligibility for the draft (not in college, 3 years out of high school), you can be drafted. Look at what happened with Drew Henson. He was drafted by the Dallas Cowboys in the 6th round of the NFL draft in the year that he was eligible. If no one had drafted him that year, he would've been a street free agent like anyone else.

You can't sign an inelgible player. If a guy sits out a year after he's drafted, he can be drafted again the next year (like what happened with Bo Jackson). Only when an eligible player gets passed over by the entire league does he become a free agent.

All contracts have to be verified by the NFL and NFLPA. It's not like you're going to sneak one through.

 

[Bodha]

He is not a college player, but he is a football player, which is what the rule states.

.

What constitutes a football player? Having played pop warner for 2 years? HS ball? Jr College ball?

Or is it limited to the NCAA?


Ex: Tyran Matheu (however you spell his name). He got kicked out of football. Is he still a football player? Could we not go sign him right this second? Hes not on a team. Hes not playing. Hes not injured. Hes not academically ineligible. Per the definition, he is currently an EX-football player.

 

[kerouac9]

What constitutes a football player? Having played pop warner for 2 years? HS ball? Jr College ball?

Or is it limited to the NCAA?


Ex: Tyran Matheu (however you spell his name). He got kicked out of football. Is he still a football player? Could we not go sign him right this second? Hes not on a team. Hes not playing. Hes not injured. Hes not academically ineligible. Per the definition, he is currently an EX-football player.

Honey Badger? I believe he's a true Junior, but he didn't apply for the draft, and he wants to go back to LSU next year. He could have applied for the supplemental draft (not really, I think the supplemental draft had already passed), and then if no one had put a supplemental pick in for him, he could be signed by anyone. But those things didn't happen.

I believe a "football player" is someone whom you sign to "play football." I'm sure that's a really slippery and difficult distinction for you to make.

Again, all contracts have to be approved by the NFL and NFLPA. You could go out and try and sign these guys if you're Rod Graves, but when you submitted them to the New York offices, they'd call you back and say, "Sorry, Rod, you have to wait until April."

Do you really think that you're the first person who has tried to sidestep NFL player acquisition rules? Don't you think if this was possible in the current structure of the league, that Jerry Jones would've signed guys left and right? C'mon, mang.

 

[Bodha]

I believe a "football player" is someone whom you sign to "play football." I'm sure that's a really slippery and difficult distinction for you to make.

Again, all contracts have to be approved by the NFL and NFLPA. You could go out and try and sign these guys if you're Rod Graves, but when you submitted them to the New York offices, they'd call you back and say, "Sorry, Rod, you have to wait until April."

Do you really think that you're the first person who has tried to sidestep NFL player acquisition rules? Don't you think if this was possible in the current structure of the league, that Jerry Jones would've signed guys left and right? C'mon, mang.

OF course not. This entire time Ive said thisll never happen, Im discussing the technical possibility of the matter.


Yes, defining "football player" is extremely difficult. And the NFLPA and League would also need to define it while rejecting such a motion. Sort of like innocnet until proven guilty. The league has to prove that you are in violation before they can reject it, therefore the burden of proof is on them.

And Im just saying that burden is very very hard to define in certain situations.

Such as a kid who quit school (after 3-4 years), renounced football, and is being signed as a civilian off the streets.

Like Vince Papali (sp?). He was an ex college player. He didnt need to get drafted. It doesnt really matter how old he was. He was by definition a "football player". The Eagles signed him outright.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Pretty sure the new CBA makes it even more difficult - there is now a pool for undrafted FAs as far as money you can pay to them in bonus cash and if you are an UDFA you stay in that contract for a set # of years

You wouldn't be able to be an unrestricted FA for at least a few years and would be making pretty much league minimum until then

 

[kerouac9]

OF course not. This entire time Ive said thisll never happen, Im discussing the technical possibility of the matter.


Yes, defining "football player" is extremely difficult. And the NFLPA and League would also need to define it while rejecting such a motion. Sort of like innocnet until proven guilty. The league has to prove that you are in violation before they can reject it, therefore the burden of proof is on them.

And Im just saying that burden is very very hard to define in certain situations.

Such as a kid who quit school (after 3-4 years), renounced football, and is being signed as a civilian off the streets.

Like Vince Papali (sp?). He was an ex college player. He didnt need to get drafted. It doesnt really matter how old he was. He was by definition a "football player". The Eagles signed him outright.

For the purposes of the rule, "football player" is likely a distinction between "coach" or "assistant" or "front office member." You can bet that "football player" is a term very specifically legally defined in the 300-odd page CBA.

How many years/CBAs ago was Vince Papale? 1976? He was playing semi-pro football for the Seaboard League and the Philadelphia Bell of the WFL.

P.S. Papale didn't even play college football. His college didn't have a football team. He ran track.

 

[Big Deal]

You had better hope that rule can never be broken, because in an open market I don't think the Cardinals would ever out bid any team for any player. We would be screwed with whatever was left on the table to scrap our roster together.

 

[PDXChris]

For the purposes of the rule, "football player" is likely a distinction between "coach" or "assistant" or "front office member." You can bet that "football player" is a term very specifically legally defined in the 300-odd page CBA.

How many years/CBAs ago was Vince Papale? 1976? He was playing semi-pro football for the Seaboard League and the Philadelphia Bell of the WFL.

P.S. Papale didn't even play college football. His college didn't have a football team. He ran track.

Leave Mr. Know If All alone. He watched Invincible and has a better understand of the technicalities of the CBA than any of us could ever have.

PS He went from saying we could sign Geno Smith to signing a 28 punter from Australia to using a movie that was half true for his argument . Apples to Apples, am I right?

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Like Vince Papale. He was an ex college player. He didnt need to get drafted. It doesnt really matter how old he was. He was by definition a "football player". The Eagles signed him outright.

Wikipedia:

Vince Papale's post-collegiate football career began with the Aston Green Knights of the semi-pro Seaboard Football League. At that time, Papale was a teacher at Interboro High school and was coaching the junior varsity football team when he successfully tried out for the Philadelphia Bell of the World Football League as a wide receiver. In his first season with the Bell, Papale caught nine passes for 121 yards, averaging 13.4 yards per catch. In 1975 Papale caught only one pass, but it was for a forty-nine yard touchdown. In both seasons with the team, Papale was a special teams standout.

---------------------------------

Vince was technically eligible for a professional draft, but went undrafted - probably since his college did not have a football team. At that point no one had his rights and he could sign anywhere. He went from being a star high school football player/track athlete to a great college track athlete on scholarship to being a semi-pro football player to playing in the World League to signing with the Eagles.

 

[Bodha]

^^^ You guys are mighty academic for a spitball thread.


Fellas going to the ends of the earth to disprove me when Im not even trying to prove anything. I m just making Idle chit chat

goofballs

Leave Mr. Know If All alone. He watched Invincible and has a better understand of the technicalities of the CBA than any of us could ever have.

PS He went from saying we could sign Geno Smith to signing a 28 punter from Australia to using a movie that was half true for his argument . Apples to Apples, am I right?

I based Vince Papale off Vince Papale. He was real y'know.



I dont know everything. For example, I dont know why you are so infatuated with me. You seem to have this thread pretty well documented, are you writing a term paper on me or something?

My Fav color is blue.

Brunettes

7.


That should do you.

 

[MrYeahBut]

I wouldn't count on the Honey Badger anytime soon anyway..... he and Jordan Jefferson just got busted again for maryjane in his apartment

 

[Bodha]

I wouldn't count on the Honey Badger anytime soon anyway..... he and Jordan Jefferson just got busted again for maryjane in his apartment

I seen that tonight too. Ironic. Hes an idiot just because hes a repeat offender and he keeps doing it but...


(Ill preface by saying ive never smoked in my life)

Are we seriously having raids on kids smoking weed?

seriously? Weed? I dont smoke and even I see how ridiculous weed laws are. Things that are worse: Alcohol, Tobacco, too much Nyquil. It goes on and on.

 

[Duckjake]

This would be like it was in the days when George Clooney played pro football. Teams could sign anyone any time.

Reminds me of when I played high level amateur tournament softball. There was this one guy who was ASA Nationals MVP three times. Once for York Barbell out of Pennsylvania, once for Jerry's Catering out of Florida, and finally for Howard Furniture out of North Carolina.

.... the NFL originally had no age eligibility rule barring entry into its
league
The NFL adopted its first such rule in 1925.

The league unilaterally imposed
the rule,

requiring that all players be at least four years removed from the time of their
high school graduation before they could be eligible for the NFL Draft.

The NFL
created the rule in response to a star college running back, Harold Edward “Red” Grange
(a.k.a. “The Galloping Ghost”), who left the University of Illinois during his senior year and joined the Chicago Bears.

Many people, including Grange’s head coach at Illinois,
condemned his decision because he had “abandoned his studies for a blatantly commercial career” and because it was “unethical for Grange to capitalize upon a reputation that he had acquired in college for direct personal gain.”