OT: Former NFL LB Thomas Howard dies in car crash in California

[Brian in Mesa]

Former NFL LB Thomas Howard dies in car crash in California

http://t.foxsports.msn.com/nfl/former-nfl-lb-thomas-howard-dies-in-car-crash-in-california

Former NFL linebacker Thomas Howard died early Monday morning following a high-speed car crash on a freeway in Oakland.

The Alameda County Coroner's office said the 30-year-old Howard was one of two men who died in the crash Monday. The driver of the other car, 64-year-old Zeng Long Liu of Hayward, also died in the crash.

Howard was driving a speeding BMW when he hit a big rig, flipped over the center divider and went head-on into a Honda traveling on the other side around 1 a.m., said Officer Daniel Hill, a spokesman for the California Highway Patrol.

Witnesses say the car was traveling at speeds between 100 mph to 110 mph as the car overturned, crossed a median and ended up in the southbound lanes of the freeway, where it sideswiped another car before landing on top of the Honda, Hill said.

Hill said that alcohol is not being ruled out as a possible cause of the accident.

Howard played eight years in the NFL after being drafted by the Oakland Raiders in the second round out of Texas-El Paso in 2006. He was most recently with Atlanta before getting released last week after playing two games this season. Howard played his first five seasons with the Raiders and two seasons with Cincinnati.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

RIP: Zeng Long Liu - innocent victim killed by an out of control former NFL player (released just last week).

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Sad situation.

RIP Zeng

 

[Dback Jon]

RIP: Zeng Long Liu - innocent victim killed by an out of control former NFL player (released just last week).

Agreed - feel bad for him and his family.

 

[Darkside]

RIP Zen. Thoughts go out to his family.

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 4

 

[juza76]

Rip both of them,sometimes we can make mistakes in the life ,sometimes we can learn from it sometimes we dont have the time to learn from it

 

[AzStevenCal]

Rip both of them,sometimes we can make mistakes in the life ,sometimes we can learn from it sometimes we dont have the time to learn from it

Until we stop making excuses for people like this we'll never put an end to tragedies such as this. To heck with him, he put himself above the rest of the world. He was 30 years old and he got drunk and got behind the wheel of a car or he was sober and made a conscious decision to risk other people's lives. We are long past the point where that should fall in the "lock them up and throw away the key" category but still you hear people say "well, we all make mistakes. Making a mistake is hitting your thumb instead of the nail you were aiming at. Turning your automobile into a weapon is not a mistake, it's a decision. Drunk or stone cold sober, there is no excusing this behavior.

Steve

 

[juza76]

Until we stop making excuses for people like this we'll never put an end to tragedies such as this. To heck with him, he put himself above the rest of the world. He was 30 years old and he got drunk and got behind the wheel of a car or he was sober and made a conscious decision to risk other people's lives. We are long past the point where that should fall in the "lock them up and throw away the key" category but still you hear people say "well, we all make mistakes. Making a mistake is hitting your thumb instead of the nail you were aiming at. Turning your automobile into a weapon is not a mistake, it's a decision. Drunk or stone cold sober, there is no excusing this behavior.

Steve

Is not confirmed he was drunk,did u ever go over speed limit in your life?
There are not excuse for what he did but he was a human being and not a criminal and didnt have any criminal records before,i think he deserve a Rip too

 

[AzStevenCal]

Is not confirmed he was drunk,did u ever go over speed limit in your life?
There are not excuse for what he did but he was a human being and not a criminal and didnt have any criminal records before,i think he deserve a Rip too

I don't have a problem with the RIP, it's the "we can make mistakes in life" that I was reacting to. Whether he was drunk or sober, he chose to drive at speeds in excess of a hundred miles an hour. AFAIC, that's criminal behavior.

Steve

 

[Brak]

Is not confirmed he was drunk,did u ever go over speed limit in your life?

Speeding, as in triple-digits, with a big rig in range to be slammed into at those speeds, and other innocents around me sharing the road?

NO. Oh HELL no. Drunk or not, this is all on him.

RIP Zeng.

 

[Buckybird]

His father, Thomas was a pretty damn good OLB for the Cards & Chiefs in the 80's. RIP

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Oakland: CHP says former Oakland Raider Thomas Howard was driving "beyond recklessly" before fatal wreck

http://www.insidebayarea.com/news/ci_24556637/oakland-chp-says-former-oakland-raider-thomas-howard

Former Oakland Raiders linebacker Thomas Howard was driving "beyond recklessly" when he lost control of his BMW and crashed, killing himself and a Hayward man Monday morning, a spokesman for the California Highway Patrol said Tuesday.

That much already has been determined by an initial investigation into the fatal wreck on Interstate 880, Officer Daniel Hill said Tuesday. And it's a conclusion that should not be overlooked, Hill said, even as investigators now delve into what may have caused Howard to fly down the freeway in excess of 100 mph.

"What we don't want to ignore here is the fact that an innocent (person) was killed in this collision because of the fact that someone else was driving recklessly. Beyond recklessly," Hill said. "Reckless driving was at the heart of this collision, and reckless driving can cause death just as easily as driving under the influence does."

------------------------------------------

A bouquet of flowers rested on Liu's porch in Hayward Tuesday, placed there by his next-door neighbor Peggy Thomas. Liu, a friendly neighbor who planted an avocado tree in his apartment complex's garden, lived there with his wife, neighbors said. Liu had recently returned from a vacation in China, they said. His wife stayed longer, and was returning home Tuesday, said neighbor Merinda Patterson.

"It's life changing for her," Patterson said. "They're very nice people. Mr. Liu was always smiling, waving."

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't have a problem with the RIP, it's the "we can make mistakes in life" that I was reacting to. Whether he was drunk or sober, he chose to drive at speeds in excess of a hundred miles an hour. AFAIC, that's criminal behavior.

Steve

Criminal behavior????? I don't consider speeding to be criminal behavior. A huge reason for speed limits on highways, hidden under the guise of safety, is the revenue generated from speeding tickets. If he was traveling 85(the posted speed limit in some states) would that make him less criminal?

I guess it all depends on perspective. Here's an excerpt from an article in the Washington Post:

The German Automobile Club says that the deaths were tragic but held no lessons about the dangers of speed. "The autobahns in Germany are Germany's safest roads," Schaepe said. "The probability that you would die in an accident on an autobahn in Germany is less than it is on an American highway," where limits are posted.
He said that deaths per 1 billion kilometers (about 625 million miles) traveled on highways was 4.5 in Germany and 5.4 in the United States.

 

[Dback Jon]

Criminal behavior????? I don't consider speeding to be criminal behavior. A huge reason for speed limits on highways, hidden under the guise of safety, is the revenue generated from speeding tickets. If he was traveling 85(the posted speed limit in some states) would that make him less criminal?

I guess it all depends on perspective. Here's an excerpt from an article in the Washington Post:

The German Automobile Club says that the deaths were tragic but held no lessons about the dangers of speed. "The autobahns in Germany are Germany's safest roads," Schaepe said. "The probability that you would die in an accident on an autobahn in Germany is less than it is on an American highway," where limits are posted.
He said that deaths per 1 billion kilometers (about 625 million miles) traveled on highways was 4.5 in Germany and 5.4 in the United States.

So you'd be ok if lots of people were driving around Columbus going 110 mph, and killing your wife/kids/parents?

Speeding like that in a crowded area IS criminal.

Going 110 on I-20 in Texas may not be, but context matters.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

So you'd be ok if lots of people were driving around Columbus going 110 mph, and killing your wife/kids/parents?

Speeding like that in a crowded area IS criminal.

Going 110 on I-20 in Texas may not be, but context matters.

I agree that traffic should be a consideration as to how fast one drives. However, I typically drive about 75-80 on the highways around town and don't think it's unsafe by any means and many other cars are traveling at that speed,or greater. I think the driver crawling along the highway, again in a free flowing traffic pattern, is more dangerous than someone driving over the speed limit.

With Howard, it was 1 am in the morning. I doubt there was a crowded traffic area.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Criminal behavior????? I don't consider speeding to be criminal behavior. A huge reason for speed limits on highways, hidden under the guise of safety, is the revenue generated from speeding tickets. If he was traveling 85(the posted speed limit in some states) would that make him less criminal?

I guess it all depends on perspective. Here's an excerpt from an article in the Washington Post:

The German Automobile Club says that the deaths were tragic but held no lessons about the dangers of speed. "The autobahns in Germany are Germany's safest roads," Schaepe said. "The probability that you would die in an accident on an autobahn in Germany is less than it is on an American highway," where limits are posted.
He said that deaths per 1 billion kilometers (about 625 million miles) traveled on highways was 4.5 in Germany and 5.4 in the United States.

First off the Autobahn is built to handle much faster speeds than our freeways (wider lanes for example). And secondly, while they do not have posted speed limits that doesn't mean you can go as fast as you want there. You can still be ticketed for unsafe driving and going 110 miles an hour in traffic that is traveling at a speed far less than that will get you ticketed at a minimum and arrested more likely.

Steve

 

[Dback Jon]

I agree that traffic should be a consideration as to how fast one drives. However, I typically drive about 75-80 on the highways around town and don't think it's unsafe by any means and many other cars are traveling at that speed,or greater. I think the driver crawling along the highway, again in a free flowing traffic pattern, is more dangerous than someone driving over the speed limit.

With Howard, it was 1 am in the morning. I doubt there was a crowded traffic area.

Huge difference between 110 and 80. Huge difference

Have you driven in the Bay Area? Freeways are built for 60-70, and there is ALWAYS a lot of traffic, even a 1 am.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

With Howard, it was 1 am in the morning. I doubt there was a crowded traffic area.

In the Oakland area? Tell me you're kidding...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Huge difference between 110 and 80. Huge difference

Have you driven in the Bay Area? Freeways are built for 60-70, and there is ALWAYS a lot of traffic, even a 1 am.

In the Oakland area? Tell me you're kidding...

Never been to California, much less bay area/Oakland. Like I said, traffic congestion does make a difference.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Never been to California, much less bay area/Oakland. Like I said, traffic congestion does make a difference.

This was on the I-880. Stretches of it are normally 55 MPH with some areas increasing to 65 MPH. It is an older freeway with a lot of big rigs on it and often there are improvement projects which slow speeds down to 45 MPH or less which increases congestion.

Definitely not Texas or Germany.

Here's a quick background on this freeway:

http://oaklandwiki.org/Nimitz_Freeway

 

[slanidrac16]

If I was going to one of the funerals I know which one I'd be going to.

Idiot behavior is idiot behavior whether your drinking, high, or sober. ANYTHING you do in life that risks your well being is your concern, but when you risk the well being of others YOU ARE AN IDIOT!

 

[jeeperaz]

Fixed the headline for you:

Former NFL LB Thomas Howard's reckless behavior kills innocent commuter.

 

[speedy]

Criminal behavior????? I don't consider speeding to be criminal behavior. A huge reason for speed limits on highways, hidden under the guise of safety, is the revenue generated from speeding tickets. If he was traveling 85(the posted speed limit in some states) would that make him less criminal?

I guess it all depends on perspective. Here's an excerpt from an article in the Washington Post:

The German Automobile Club says that the deaths were tragic but held no lessons about the dangers of speed. "The autobahns in Germany are Germany's safest roads," Schaepe said. "The probability that you would die in an accident on an autobahn in Germany is less than it is on an American highway," where limits are posted.
He said that deaths per 1 billion kilometers (about 625 million miles) traveled on highways was 4.5 in Germany and 5.4 in the United States.

Here in AZ, anything over 20mph is criminal speeding. On the interstate (which is 75 here in AZ), 10 mph over is criminal. Most officers wont write you a criminal ticket, unless of course you are being a total ******* (in the way you are driving).

The secret behind the autobahn/autostrada is people in Europe are more highly trained drivers; they usually dont do stupid stuff and that left lane is ONLY used for passing. Thats a huge factor in why they're safety record is so remarkable.

Also, while there is no posted speed limit, you can be cited for traveling at speeds which are not reasonable and prudent. If theres a ton of traffic on the road, you cant do 160kph... This is a sad story. Some decisions will have significant consequences; this is a prime example of one...

 

[Longcolts]

The secret behind the autobahn/autostrada is people in Europe are more highly trained drivers; they usually dont do stupid stuff and that left lane is ONLY used for passing. Thats a huge factor in why they're safety record is so remarkable.

You are correct in this. I spent two years in Germany driving on the autobahns there and while I don't recall the German phrase for it, but it translated to "Drive Right"