OT Franchise 4 Suns

FArting

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The topic of Franchise 4 has been going around Major League Baseball.

This is who Dan Majerle would pick for the Suns
Nash
Barkley
Adams
Van Arsdale

Tom Chambers picks
Nash
Barkley
Hawkins
Davis

Who would be your franchise 4 for the Suns?

Mine would be
Barkley
Nash
KJ
Davis
 

Errntknght

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I go with:
Nash
Kidd
KJ
Davis

I'd replace KJ with DJ (Dennis Johnson) but he really didn't stay here long enough.
 

Phrazbit

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Including playoffs Barkley played 328 games as a Sun, Kidd played in 331 games.

The only time Jason Kidd's Suns made it clear of the first round he missed most of the series with an ankle injury. Barkley's Suns lost to the eventually NBA champion in each of his first 3 years and each series was a war.

Unless you just don't like Barkley then I don't see how it can be debatable.
 

Errntknght

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I was never a Barkley fan. He loafed on defense and admitted it. Westfall allowed it, of course...
 

slinslin

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Including playoffs Barkley played 328 games as a Sun, Kidd played in 331 games.

The only time Jason Kidd's Suns made it clear of the first round he missed most of the series with an ankle injury. Barkley's Suns lost to the eventually NBA champion in each of his first 3 years and each series was a war.

Unless you just don't like Barkley then I don't see how it can be debatable.

One of the worst NBA champions ever, a team that could not even get homecourt seeding. It was the definition of a choke job. They even lost to them after being up 3-1.

Jason Kidd never had as good a team around him as Barkley had.
 

Ronin

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Barkley
Nash
KJ
Hawkins

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asuhoopsnut

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Nash
Barkley
Hawkins
KJ


Davis, Van Arsdale, and Westphal just barely out of the equation.
 

Mainstreet

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My picks are:

Steve Nash
Charles Barkley
Kevin Johnson
Walter Davis
 

TigToad

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1. Nash
2. Adams
3. Barkley
4. Kevin Johnson

It is way harder to do this for the Suns, as we have a lot more history. Larry Nance, Walter Davis, Jason Kidd (Who I was never a big fan of), Majerle, and Connie Hawkins are all close.

I'm tempted to demote Barkley due to tenure for Hawkins or Nance.
 

Iceman

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1. Nash
2. Adams
3. Barkley
4. Kevin Johnson

It is way harder to do this for the Suns, as we have a lot more history. Larry Nance, Walter Davis, Jason Kidd (Who I was never a big fan of), Majerle, and Connie Hawkins are all close.

I'm tempted to demote Barkley due to tenure for Hawkins or Nance.

I was just thinking that Nance and Thunder Dan have a real good chance of being on this list too.

Mine-

Nash
KJ
Barkley
Nance
 

Covert Rain

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My 4:

Barkley
Nash
Walter Davis.
KJ

There is ZERO debate Barkley should be there if you like him or not. Also, I am glad this was top 4. Because at the 5 this list becomes very debatable. Hawkins, Nance, Marion, Amare, Chambers.....nobody is a lock at 5 IMO.
 
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Cheesebeef

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My 4:

Barkley
Nash
Walter Davis.
KJ

There is ZERO debate Barkley should be there if you like him or not. Also, I am glad this was top 4. Because at the 5 this list becomes very debatable. Hawkins, Nance, Marion, Amare, Chambers.....nobody is a lock at 5 IMO.

agreed. Kidd pretty much made zero impact on the history of the franchise. Led the team to zero division titles. Routinely got his ass destroyed in the first round, save one year where we beat a Duncan-less Spurs team and Kidd only played in the last game of that series... and beat his wife. Meanwhile, Barkley lead teams averaged 55 wins per season, won 2 division titles, and made an NBA Finals and ALWAYS raised his game during the playoffs. That was the finest run in Suns history and he was the ringleader. None of that can be argued.
 

Phrazbit

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agreed. Kidd pretty much made zero impact on the history of the franchise. Led the team to zero division titles. Routinely got his ass destroyed in the first round, save one year where we beat a Duncan-less Spurs team and Kidd only played in the last game of that series... and beat his wife. Meanwhile, Barkley lead teams averaged 55 wins per season, won 2 division titles, and made an NBA Finals and ALWAYS raised his game during the playoffs. That was the finest run in Suns history and he was the ringleader. None of that can be argued.

Yeah, I don't see how Kidd is even in the conversation, especially at the expense of Barkley, who's impact on the court was probably second only to Nash.

IMO Nash, Barkley and KJ are easy calls for me, after that there are a bunch of guys I'd consider... Hawkins, Davis, Westphal, Marion, Amare, Adams, before I'd put Kidd in the running.
 

Errntknght

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You guys are talking about teams more than players. No one else was saddled with Skiles as coach and Bryan was more concerned with putting his stamp on the team than building a team. It was painful to watch Kidd going to waste playing Skiles EC slow down style. He was the best at running the break and he was a very good defender as well. For my money if I'm building a team I want Jason Kidd ahead of any other Sun - except possibly Nash.
 

Phrazbit

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You guys are talking about teams more than players. No one else was saddled with Skiles as coach and Bryan was more concerned with putting his stamp on the team than building a team. It was painful to watch Kidd going to waste playing Skiles EC slow down style. He was the best at running the break and he was a very good defender as well. For my money if I'm building a team I want Jason Kidd ahead of any other Sun - except possibly Nash.

Team success IS a factor though, we're talking about the franchise guys, not just "guys who were good players". In terms of impact on the franchise there are a lot of guys I'd put ahead of Kidd.

And at that point in his career Kidd needed to be in a slow down system. Yes, he could run the break and throw an ally-oop, but he was a dreadful shooter who would have been horribly exposed in a pure fast paced offense. He was never able to be a part of a run and gun team until later in his career when he developed a legit catch and shoot game (out of necessity because his other skills had diminished) but obviously at that point he was hardly the kind of player you'd build a team around.

He accomplished virtually nothing while he was here, he left on horrible terms and he ripped the city when he returned as an opponent. He does not belong anywhere near our "franchise guys" as far as I am concerned.
 
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mojorizen7

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The revisionist history(or whatever you want to call it) over Barkley's talent and importance to the history of the Suns found on this board says more about certain members of this board than it does about Barkley.
It's a shame, really.

Anyway, my choices are:

Barkley
Nash
Majerle
Walter Davis
 
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Chaz

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It took a while to figure out what this list is supposed to be. I went with the players that defined their teams and put the Suns on the map nationally

Hawkins
Johnson
Barkley
Nash
 

Covert Rain

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The revisionist history(or whatever you want to call it) over Barkley's talent and importance to the history of the Suns found on this board says more about certain members of this board than it does about Barkley.

Man...I miss the "buzz" in the air when he came here. People forget that when he came here a scrimmage had to move to the Walkup Skydome because over 10,000 fans showed up to see Charles. TV ratings where at historical highs for Suns games. Local newspapers had dedicated Barkley recap sessions. The Suns had a record number of requests for press credentials. The team was drawing record crows away from home.

That was all on top of what he did on the court. There are very few guys in the entire league that can call out the other team and dare them to stop him and said player drops 30 on them. Silly debate about him being on the list of top 4.
 

StreetTruckinTitan

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Im surprised nobody has Chambers in their top 4. He was a main reason the Suns became relevant again in the late 80s, along with the trade that brought KJ to the Suns. In the five seasons TC was with the Suns his average totalled 20.6 ppg with his team leading best 27.2 in 89-90.

Chambers
Kevin Johnson
Barkley
Nash
 

mojorizen7

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Man...I miss the "buzz" in the air when he came here. People forget that when he came here a scrimmage had to move to the Walkup Skydome because over 10,000 fans showed up to see Charles. TV ratings where at historical highs for Suns games. Local newspapers had dedicated Barkley recap sessions. The Suns had a record number of requests for press credentials. The team was drawing record crows away from home.

That was all on top of what he did on the court. There are very few guys in the entire league that can call out the other team and dare them to stop him and said player drops 30 on them. Silly debate about him being on the list of top 4.

Absolutely. The buzz in this town when that trade was made, the electricity in the air when the season started. I can still remember everyone glued to the radio to listen to every preseason game just to hear Al McCoy calling out Barkley's name as a Phoenix Sun.

This town went bananas as the wins and Barkley highlights piled up. He was a superstar. We haven't had too many of those here in Phx. Nash and Barkley. Those guys are it IMO.

I was about 24 yrs old that season, working in a local big chain grocery store during the playoff run...and i've never seen anything like it since. Stores were DEAD when the Suns were on. Streets were emptied. Everyone was in front of a television. My store had the radio play-by-play going out over the PA. Lol.

Barkley came and took the Suns higher then they'd ever been before...and since.
 

chickenhead

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Im surprised nobody has Chambers in their top 4. He was a main reason the Suns became relevant again in the late 80s, along with the trade that brought KJ to the Suns. In the five seasons TC was with the Suns his average totalled 20.6 ppg with his team leading best 27.2 in 89-90.

Chambers
Kevin Johnson
Barkley
Nash

I'd have Chambers ahead of Barkley for the reasons you mention. To want to go to Houston after choking against them in consecutive years, while saying it's his best shot at a ring, and that he was in the best shape of the previous three or four years (his entire Suns tenure)...doesn't really inspire me to put him on the franchise Rushmore.

I might even say Chambers, Johnson, Nash, Stoudemire right now. But partially because I can't really decide among Adams, Van Arsdale, and Davis. Hawkins I think of more as a general basketball legend--if only his NBA career hadn't been delayed.
 

Absolute Zero

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Barkley
Nash
Westphal
KJ

I give Westphal for the edge over Sweet D because of his role on the Cinderella Suns team that made it to the finals, and due to the fact that he also coached the Barkley/KJ team to the finals.

In 1976, Westphal helped the Suns reach their first-ever Finals appearance, where they played the Celtics. Game 5 of that series is often called "the greatest game ever played"[1][2][3][4] in NBA history.

With time winding down in regulation and the Suns trailing 94–91, Westphal poked the ball away from Jo Jo White, took a long pass from Dennis Awtrey, and hit a breakaway layup. He was fouled on the play and hit the free throw to tie it at 94–94.

In the second overtime, with 15 seconds left and the Suns trailing 109–108 after just making a basket, Westphal stole the ball from John Havlicek after Havlicek received the inbounds pass. This began a chain of events that culminated with Curtis Perry hitting a jumper to give the Suns a 110–109 lead.
After the Perry basket and a Celtics timeout, Havlicek got the ball with five seconds left and hit a bank shot to put the Celtics up 111–110. The buzzer sounded and Celtic fans poured on the floor, thinking the Celtics had won. However, referee Richie Powers correctly ruled that Havlicek's shot went through the basket with two seconds left on the clock. After one second was placed back on, Westphal, sensing that the Suns could get a better shot off if the ball was inbounded at halfcourt, called a timeout that the Suns didn't have while preparing to inbound the ball from under the Celtics' basket. A technical foul was assessed; the Celtics made the subsequent free throw and increased their lead to 112–110. The resulting timeout call allowed Phoenix to inbound the ball at midcourt, rather than go the full length of the court. (As a result of this play, the NBA changed the rules prior to the following season.) Garfield Heard then made a shot for the Suns that sent the game into triple-overtime.[5]

With 20 seconds left in the third overtime and the Celtics seemingly in control at 128–122, Westphal scored two quick baskets to cut it to 128–126 and nearly made a steal at midcourt after the second, but failed and the Celtics ran out the clock to the victory.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Westphal
 
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