OT: Haley In Pitt Off to Rocky Start

[Reddog]

Remembering how there was no love loss between Whiz and Big Ben and knowing how in your face Haley can be, I think this is going to be a rocky relationship in Pittsburgh. Whats the over under on how long this lasts?


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000...t-up-to-roethlisberger?module=HP11_hot_topics

 

[Goldfield]

Not a fan of Haley. He seems like a loud mouth jerk to me.

 

[Unsterblich856]

I say this lasts a season with Big Baby crying to Tomlin hard enough for Haley to be fired.

Not a fan of Haley. He seems like a loud mouth jerk to me.

He's a loudmouth jerk, but we did some pretty damn good things when he was our loudmouth jerk.

 

[Solar7]

I hope we sent him there to sabotage the team as payback.

 

[ARZCardinals]

Haley is a damn good coach...while Ben has done an excellent job...Haley expects perfection in his offense. He was one of the best coaches I'd ever seen at training camp. He follows every play from start to finish and corrects everyone in a nice manner until they screw up again...then he starts raising his tone...louder till he pulls the player to put another guy in to do it correct.
You can't hate on a coach that expects excellence at this level.
I'd take Haley as a coach any day

 

[JeffGollin]

Haley is a damn good coach...while Ben has done an excellent job...Haley expects perfection in his offense. He was one of the best coaches I'd ever seen at training camp. He follows every play from start to finish and corrects everyone in a nice manner until they screw up again...then he starts raising his tone...louder till he pulls the player to put another guy in to do it correct.
You can't hate on a coach that expects excellence at this level.
I'd take Haley as a coach any day

Haley comes out of a Parcells tradition - seems good, until you consider that Parcells was basically an old school smashmouth disciple who emphasized defense and strong run games. Most modern-day QB's favor wide open attacks (as well they should - they get paid to complete passes and rack up TD's). For this reason, it could set up tension between Haley and most QB's under his wing - not necessarily a good thing (unless Big Ben buys into smashmouth offensive football).

 

[Azlen]

Haley was hired and is implementing the type of offense that he is because that is what management wants. This wasn't a Tomlin or Roethlisberger decision, so it's natural there will be friction. Once the season starts, we'll see if the right decision is made, but if wasn't then Haley's going to take the fall.

 

[Duckjake]

Haley comes out of a Parcells tradition - seems good, until you consider that Parcells was basically an old school smashmouth disciple who emphasized defense and strong run games. Most modern-day QB's favor wide open attacks (as well they should - they get paid to complete passes and rack up TD's). For this reason, it could set up tension between Haley and most QB's under his wing - not necessarily a good thing (unless Big Ben buys into smashmouth offensive football).

So how do we explain that with Haley as OC the Cards were anything but an old school smashmouth football team? With a team that emphasized offense and had a weak run game?

Could be that after the opener vs the 49ers where they ran the ball 38 times and only passed 28 and lost they realized that type of football wouldn't work for that edition of the Arizona Cardinals.

The next 4 games with Leinart and Warner sharing snaps they threw the ball 153 times! A precursor to the 630 passes they were to throw in 2008.

 

[thirty-two]

Awesome, please implode!

 

[JeffGollin]

So how do we explain that with Haley as OC the Cards were anything but an old school smashmouth football team? With a team that emphasized offense and had a weak run game?

Could be that after the opener vs the 49ers where they ran the ball 38 times and only passed 28 and lost they realized that type of football wouldn't work for that edition of the Arizona Cardinals.

The next 4 games with Leinart and Warner sharing snaps they threw the ball 153 times! A precursor to the 630 passes they were to throw in 2008.

I seem to remember some epic arguments on the sidelines between Haley and Kurt Warner. That Kurt apparently prevailed much of the time gives testimony either to Kurt's credibility and strength of personality or to Todd's flexibilty.

Either way, there's no denying that Haley's background and personality style created a degree of tension over how much to open up the offense. I think the same process could repeat itself in Pittsburgh - although Ben's style is more physical than was Warner's).

 

[Darkside]

Here's my take on it: 3 of the most mentally tough dudes in the NFL in Warner, Boldin, and Fitzgerald have admitted that Haley ruffled their feathers at times. The one thing they've all agreed on when it came to taking Haley's personality and attitude was that he had something to offer in return: he could make them better. The only real question is: Is Big Ben as mentally tough as those three? Can he recognize what Haley has to offer, or is he going to be selfish and immature? Judging by Ben's comments already, before the season's even started, doesn't bode well. He's already laying a foundation for discontent. He's the leader of that team, he should act like one. He sounds more like Matt Leinart than Kurt Warner.

 

[CardsFan88]

Judging by Ben's comments already, before the season's even started, doesn't bode well. He's already laying a foundation for discontent. He's the leader of that team, he should act like one. He sounds more like Matt Leinart than Kurt Warner.

(of course all of this is speculation and guesses)

That said..

I do feel like he is indeed ruffling feathers for better or worse, but I tend to agree with your assessment and the reason for the quote is the following.

It's not just before the season started. It's after voluntary practice BEFORE training camp.

 

[Cardiac]

My turn to read the tea leaves, read minds and generally guess at what Haley's impact and style is and was.

He ruffles many a players feathers, I think most of us can agree with this statement.

It worked pretty darn well with he was the OC with the Cards.

It started poorly in KC, seemed to even out and then crashed all around him. How the Chiefs performed after Crennel took over after Haley was fired lends one to think Haley's style didn't work there.

Now Big Ben isn't thrilled with Haley. Also reportedly wasn't a fan of Whiz.

What I think is that this is still further proof of how amazing Whiz is as a HC. The fact that he knew how to use Haley's skills and personality to keep players improving while keeping them from tuning Haley out like the Chief's players did.

 

[splitsecond]

I am not so sure that it's fair to blame Haley at all.... Ben was pissed about Arians being let go, period. He would have these frustrations with anyone new coming in.

 

[Darkside]

My turn to read the tea leaves, read minds and generally guess at what Haley's impact and style is and was.

He ruffles many a players feathers, I think most of us can agree with this statement.

It worked pretty darn well with he was the OC with the Cards.

It started poorly in KC, seemed to even out and then crashed all around him. How the Chiefs performed after Crennel took over after Haley was fired lends one to think Haley's style didn't work there.

Now Big Ben isn't thrilled with Haley. Also reportedly wasn't a fan of Whiz.

What I think is that this is still further proof of how amazing Whiz is as a HC. The fact that he knew how to use Haley's skills and personality to keep players improving while keeping them from tuning Haley out like the Chief's players did.

The fact that he couldn't get along with Whisenhunt says a lot to me, because I haven't heard any other player complain about Whis except Leinart. In fact, most players, or at least our core players say he's a players coach and great to play for. This is now, apparently, the 2nd coordinator Ben has an issue with and the only one he could get along with was a guy who apparently kissed his butt and went out to dinner with the guy and coddled him like a big baby. Seems like anyone who's tried to treat Ben like a man hurts his feelings, while those who've babied him are in his favor.

(Edit: In fact, wasn't it Hines Ward a couple years ago who called Ben out for being pretty much a Prima-Donna and a large child? If I'm not mistaken, he called him out twice; once while injured, which I think is unfair in my opinion, and then another time for just being all drama)

 

[kerouac9]

The fact that he couldn't get along with Whisenhunt says a lot to me, because I haven't heard any other player complain about Whis except Leinart. In fact, most players, or at least our core players say he's a players coach and great to play for. This is now, apparently, the 2nd coordinator Ben has an issue with and the only one he could get along with was a guy who apparently kissed his butt and went out to dinner with the guy and coddled him like a big baby. Seems like anyone who's tried to treat Ben like a man hurts his feelings, while those who've babied him are in his favor.

(Edit: In fact, wasn't it Hines Ward a couple years ago who called Ben out for being pretty much a Prima-Donna and a large child? If I'm not mistaken, he called him out twice; once while injured, which I think is unfair in my opinion, and then another time for just being all drama)

Boldin complained openly in the press about Whis--has blamed him for the trade to Baltimore and inserting himself into contract talks. According to BiM or Chandler Mike (forget which one), players in private talk about how two-faced the coaching staff is.

Of course, if you read any journalism on the life of a player, they say that about pretty much every coaching staff.

 

[JeffGollin]

What I think is that this is still further proof of how amazing Whiz is as a HC. The fact that he knew how to use Haley's skills and personality to keep players improving while keeping them from tuning Haley out like the Chief's players did.
Apples to oranges - Haley was an OC with us (As HC, Wiz was responsible for establishing the team's personality and culture. In that role, he could help smooth any ruffled feathers created by Todd).

In KC, Haley was the Big Kahuna - there was no one above him to smooth things over or shoulder some of the heat.

Plus - the cultures of the two teams were different For example, Graves and Paoli have different management styles).

But in Haley's defense, I do think he could succeed under the right circumstances pushing the right buttons. But my own sense of him is that he's "a defensive coach in an offensive coordinator's clothing" - not a particularly viable fit).

 

[Cardiac]

What I think is that this is still further proof of how amazing Whiz is as a HC. The fact that he knew how to use Haley's skills and personality to keep players improving while keeping them from tuning Haley out like the Chief's players did.
Apples to oranges - Haley was an OC with us (As HC, Wiz was responsible for establishing the team's personality and culture. In that role, he could help smooth any ruffled feathers created by Todd).

In KC, Haley was the Big Kahuna - there was no one above him to smooth things over or shoulder some of the heat.

Plus - the cultures of the two teams were different For example, Graves and Paoli have different management styles).

But in Haley's defense, I do think he could succeed under the right circumstances pushing the right buttons. But my own sense of him is that he's "a defensive coach in an offensive coordinator's clothing" - not a particularly viable fit).

I get what you are saying but one still has to give Whiz credit for not letting Haley kill the morale of his offensive unit.

Yes the Chiefs had injuries but wasn't it more than a bit revealing how well they played when Haley was canned.

Maybe Haley has learned from his first experience as a HC like Billicheat did. Maybe if give time he would have won back the soul of his team like Coughlin did, once witht the Jags and now with the Giants.

Maybe Rapesliscum is just a big baby and Haley isn't doing anything that a normal NFL QB wouldn't get upset about.

Maybe Haley is just a tool who people skills only translate to a small percentage of NFL players.

 

[Stronso]

Haley was/is much maligned but I would have loved him back here as OC. He demands excellence and if you don't provide that he will find someone who will.

People need to toughen up and quit being such whiners

Haley is a damn good coach...while Ben has done an excellent job...Haley expects perfection in his offense. He was one of the best coaches I'd ever seen at training camp. He follows every play from start to finish and corrects everyone in a nice manner until they screw up again...then he starts raising his tone...louder till he pulls the player to put another guy in to do it correct.
You can't hate on a coach that expects excellence at this level.
I'd take Haley as a coach any day

Sent from the voices inside my head via Tapatalk on my BlackBerry Bold 9930

 

[Jetstream Green]

just media bs trying to make there is a personality problem with Haley and the players and note how they use words like 'appears' and other forms of assumption.

 

[WarnerHOF]

Breaking news: Steelers OC Haley sexually assaulted in the bathroom. Assailant unknown tsk tsk.

 

[Darkside]

Evidence is on Haley's side though, it was all probably filmed and recorded by secret monitoring devices.

 

[chickenhead]

I speculate that Big Ben doesn't like being coached all that much. Now he's being coached by someone who is intense and probably in his face. A coach he previously beat in the Super Bowl, on the staff of another Pittsburgh OC Ben didn't like being coached by (Whiz).

It doesn't surprise me at all. But Haley has gotten results before in occasionally acrimonious situations, so it doesn't mean they are not going to have success together.

 

[Shane]

Breaking news: Steelers OC Haley sexually assaulted in the bathroom. Assailant unknown tsk tsk.

 

[Chopper0080]

Boldin complained openly in the press about Whis--has blamed him for the trade to Baltimore and inserting himself into contract talks. According to BiM or Chandler Mike (forget which one), players in private talk about how two-faced the coaching staff is.

Of course, if you read any journalism on the life of a player, they say that about pretty much every coaching staff.

I like Boldin, but if he truely believes this he is kidding himself. He burned as much of the bridge between himself and Arizona as the coaching staff/front office did.