OT-Wild Card Sunday. 1/5/20

[Solar7]

I was meh on the Isabella pick. I hated Harry in college. If a WR struggles to separate against PAC 22 defenders, that’s a big no no. Same with Arcega-Whiteside in Philly. I wanted Deebo more than anyone.

I liked Deebo a lot. But, I have to admit, I think you watch a lot more college ball than I do. I catch most ASU games and then maybe a big game or two on Saturday, or in the background at the bar. I was admittedly really into Metcalf, but not at all at the top of the 2nd.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Any reason in particular why you say that?

Eye test and performance. I loved him in college and his combination of size , speed and pedigree. Anyone who thinks/thought AI could even sniff Metcalf’s jock was either drunk or blind.

 

[GatorAZ]

Saints really lost to Case Keenum, Jared Goff, & Kirk Cousins in 3 straight years.


Disgusting.

Drew Brees has beaten Kurt Warner, Brett Favre and Peyton Manning while losing to Rex Grossman, Case Keemun and Tavaris Jackson in the playoffs.

 

[Finito]

You keep saying he's the average in the league, but you haven't accounted for basically the past three years. We have been over it.

As we stand right now, there are 3 Keim drafted starters on this team from 53 picks. Maybe we re-sign Gunter and he kinda pretends to be a starter again. Maybe we re-sign Humphries. Maybe we awkwardly force Zach Allen/Byron Murphy/Haason Reddick/Michael Dogbe/The Thompson Twins to be starters, but not a one is a lock. Keim has been awful, and you need to go back and do the math if you think otherwise.

Most of his picks aren't even on the team, let alone contributing.

like I said he’s middle of the pack and that’s the facts. Can’t argued with that. You can live in some fantasy world where GMs draft all pros year in and year out but FACT is 50% of 1st round picks don’t make it to there second contract and the number just goes down from there.

 

[Solar7]

like I said he’s middle of the pack and that’s the facts. Can’t argued with that. You can live in some fantasy world where GMs draft all pros year in and year out but FACT is 50% of 1st round picks don’t make it to there second contract and the number just goes down from there.

Like I said, he's not in the middle of the pack, and that's the facts.

Please, go do the math. We had this exercise within the past seven days with the Cowboys alone. Wherever you're getting your "FACTS," you are outdated. Even if it's just 50% of first round picks that don't make it to their second contract, Keim has zero, and might get his first this year, which half of us won't be happy about. 4/7 are already off of the team, and only 2/7 have a shot in hell of staying.

 

[Finito]

Like I said, he's not in the middle of the pack, and that's the facts.

Please, go do the math. We had this exercise within the past seven days with the Cowboys alone. Wherever you're getting your "FACTS," you are outdated. Even if it's just 50% of first round picks that don't make it to their second contract, Keim has zero, and might get his first this year, which half of us won't be happy about. 4/7 are already off of the team, and only 2/7 have a shot in hell of staying.

facts

 

[Solar7]

facts

Show me the facts then. Burden of proof is on you, because all other research I've done says completely otherwise.

 

[Finito]

Show me the facts then. Burden of proof is on you, because all other research I've done says completely otherwise.

you known you’ve backed yourself into a corner right? Your bitching about SK drafting but complaining we didn’t draft DK Metcalf who didn’t really do anything in school and was drafted on potential.

so guess what your not allowed to complain about. Logan Thomas, Robert Nkmdiche, Brandon Williams all those other “projects” drafted on potential.

you can’t talk out of both sides of your mouth.

 

[Solar7]

you known you’ve backed yourself into a corner right? Your bitching about SK drafting but complaining we didn’t draft DK Metcalf who didn’t really do anything in school and was drafted on potential.

so guess what your not allowed to complain about. Logan Thomas, Robert Nkmdiche, Brandon Williams all those other “projects” drafted on potential.

you can’t talk out of both sides of your mouth.

I'm talking about how much Keim sucks. You've been on his side dramatically, from what I've read in the past few weeks. (I could be wrong, so I apologize in advance if I'm mixing up names.)

I've defended the man on how I don't think he had a chance at drafting a decent QB, and have argued with plenty about how it's not sensible to think we could have acquired Mahomes/Watson.

Every prospect is drafted on potential. Keim & Arians acknowledged they needed a developmental QB, so they took a stab at Thomas in the 4th. Fine with me. Nkemdiche (spell it right if you're gonna fight about it), same thing. That was the closest thing to a top-tier player we could get at that spot in the draft. He didn't work out, but fine with me. Brandon Williams? Well that was just dumb. But the 3rd and 4th round is where you take risks on some athletes and hope you have a good coaching staff.

The second round, when you're practically begging the Dolphins to give you anything for the 1st, 3rd, & 5th you blew a year ago? How about taking someone who looks like he can play the game? Keim keeps whiffing, again and again.

 

[AZfaninMN]

Eye test and performance. I loved him in college and his combination of size , speed and pedigree. Anyone who thinks/thought AI could even sniff Metcalf’s jock was either drunk or blind.

How can you love a guy who never had more than 40 catches or 700 yards in a single season? Hell AI’s senior season, albeit at smaller school, put up more catches, more yards, and one less TD than Metcalf’s career at Ole Miss. DK almost had as many catches and yards his rookie season as he did his entire college career. Name another player who has ever done that? No one could’ve predicted that.

 

[Solar7]

How can you love a guy who never had more than 40 catches or 700 yards in a single season? Hell AI’s senior season, albeit at smaller school, put up more catches, more yards, and one less TD than Metcalf’s career at Ole Miss. DK almost had as many catches and yards his rookie season as he did his entire college career. Name another player who has ever done that? No one could’ve predicted that.

We have another thread going about this, but AI played against teams without anyone who was going to the NFL, whereas Metcalf played on the opposite side of AJ Brown against legitimate NFL players, with a bad QB.

Either guy would have been a solid choice, at least in comparison, where we stand today.

 

[AZfaninMN]

We have another thread going about this, but AI played against teams without anyone who was going to the NFL, whereas Metcalf played on the opposite side of AJ Brown against legitimate NFL players, with a bad QB.

Either guy would have been a solid choice, at least in comparison, where we stand today.

I was just reading the other thread. I opened my phone hit the refresh on this thread and started reading then posted my reply before jumping to the other forums.

AJ Brown in the same offense with the same QB posted back to back 1,000 yard seasons. He also didn’t have the lateral quickness of a OL or had dropping issues in college. Those are huge question marks for a WR no matter the size and speed. Darius Hayward-Bey was a combine stud, but he couldn’t catch the ball or run good routes. He’s a bust.

 

[Solar7]

I was just reading the other thread. I opened my phone hit the refresh on this thread and started reading then posted my reply before jumping to the other forums.

AJ Brown in the same offense with the same QB posted back to back 1,000 yard seasons. He also didn’t have the lateral quickness of a OL or had dropping issues in college. Those are huge question marks for a WR no matter the size and speed. Darius Hayward-Bey was a combine stud, but he couldn’t catch the ball or run good routes. He’s a bust.

No worries about the other thread, I just didn't want anyone to accuse me of restarting an argument.

There were question marks on DK Metcalf, undoubtedly. But he's not the only receiver after Isabella to go on and perform strongly in the exact position we're talking about drafting with our #1 pick - outside WR. There's other very strong players out there performing, and we spent 3 picks on guys who had zero impact, four if you want to consider the year prior.

It'd be like if we got to the draft this year and took 3 guards but no tackles.

 

[AZfaninMN]

No worries about the other thread, I just didn't want anyone to accuse me of restarting an argument.

There were question marks on DK Metcalf, undoubtedly. But he's not the only receiver after Isabella to go on and perform strongly in the exact position we're talking about drafting with our #1 pick - outside WR. There's other very strong players out there performing, and we spent 3 picks on guys who had zero impact, four if you want to consider the year prior.

It'd be like if we got to the draft this year and took 3 guards but no tackles.

No worries. I’m not arguing AI was the best available or that the guy calling the shots is the right guy. I’m just bringing up the red flags on DK. I don’t have the time, like I used to, to watch film on these guys, so I can’t give a “who I would’ve taken” argument. All I’m saying was DK’s red flags that were well known before the draft.

 

[Solar7]

I remember these:

Metcalf:

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Butler:

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Samuel:

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...dbs

You do realize that your map has no shuttle or 3-cone drill for Butler, right?

 

[daves]

You do realize that your map has no shuttle or 3-cone drill for Butler, right?

I didn't make the maps... if you can find one with Butler's shuttle or 3-cone i'd like to see it. I'm guessing he wasn't in the 3rd %ile or below.

Point is, there were a LOT of people at the time who wanted no part of Metcalf and predicted he'd be a huge bust based on his college performance and lack of agility.

Bottom line - it's Keim's job to recognize and pick the best players in the draft, and at this time he seems to have blown it by picking Isabella over Metcalf. It's reasonable to assess his performance both in this specific case and in general by considering the performance of the players he picked and the ones he didn't pick.

But people are going a bit overboard with 20-20 hindsight in this case, claiming that Metcalf was an obvious choice at the time because went to a big school and Isabella was an idiotic choice because he went to a small school, or saying Keim should've picked the player who "looked the part" while ignoring Metcalf's warts. I just think people are over-generalizing by claiming it's a bad idea to take a guy from a small school over a big school (e.g. Isabella didn't work out so far, John Brown did), or it's a good idea to take the athletic freak when you have a chance (Metcalf seems to have worked out for the Seahawks, Nkemdiche didn't work out for the Cards).

...dbs

 

[Southpaw]

I liked Deebo a lot. But, I have to admit, I think you watch a lot more college ball than I do. I catch most ASU games and then maybe a big game or two on Saturday, or in the background at the bar. I was admittedly really into Metcalf, but not at all at the top of the 2nd.

You are officially disqualified to comment on draft picks based on your admitted lack of background info. I am a college watch geek so I am the supreme analyst pre draft.

 

[Southpaw]

Eye test and performance. I loved him in college and his combination of size , speed and pedigree. Anyone who thinks/thought AI could even sniff Metcalf’s jock was either drunk or blind.

Seriously did you watch many Ole Miss games? I had no idea the West Coast viewers were able to watch SEC bottom dweller teams. I live in SEC country and Ole Miss couldn't even sniff the TV schedule.

Pedigree???? His father was a guard.

 

[Solar7]

You are officially disqualified to comment on draft picks based on your admitted lack of background info. I am a college watch geek so I am the supreme analyst pre draft.

Haha, I do a ton of research on prospects as we get closer to the draft.

I used to be able to watch more college ball but as I get older I just don't have the time to commit the entire weekend to football.

 

[Southpaw]

Haha, I do a ton of research on prospects as we get closer to the draft.

I used to be able to watch more college ball but as I get older I just don't have the time to commit the entire weekend to football.

Rely on the eyeball test. Pre draft analysts make $$$$ creating BS. PayPal me $100 pre draft and I will send you my "analysis". I want in on that gig . I can throw darts and BS too. I am sending Keim my picks.

 

[cwamjn]

I used to be able to watch more college ball but as I get older I just don't have the time to commit the entire weekend to football.

Same here, but I completely gave up NFL. I watch a ton of college ball but have no idea how anyone would translate to the NFL.

 

[Solar7]

Rely on the eyeball test. Pre draft analysts make $$$$ creating BS. PayPal me $100 pre draft and I will send you my "analysis". I want in on that gig . I can throw darts and BS too. I am sending Keim my picks.

It's fun to pop open a draft magazine every year and read up on kids I might not have been watching. The eye test isn't always enough, especially when there's guys on the offensive line and other things going on. Anyways.

 

[Solar7]

Same here, but I completely gave up NFL. I watch a ton of college ball but have no idea how anyone would translate to the NFL.

I strongly prefer the NFL because most every game is competitive and half the team doesn't retire every year. I don't know how people watch college. Knowing ASU is completely out of it the moment they lose a game is just no fun. I'll watch them and cheer them on, but I don't know why I'm supposed to be excited they made the Las Vegas Bowl or Sun Bowl.

 

[slanidrac16]

Remember this people. What you think of a player coming out of college should not change because of the combine.

we get mesmerized because a guy ran a little faster or jumped a little higher. Bottom line is what the hell did he do on the football field. If you think wr-A is the best Wr in college it shouldn’t change your mind if Wr-B runs 3 tenths faster in his 40.

Oh , and Mr. Keim please keep in mind the level of competition a player is competing against.

 

[Southpaw]

Remember this people. What you think of a player coming out of college should not change because of the combine.

we get mesmerized because a guy ran a little faster or jumped a little higher. Bottom line is what the hell did he do on the football field. If you think wr-A is the best Wr in college it shouldn’t change your mind if Wr-B runs 3 tenths faster in his 40.

Oh , and Mr. Keim please keep in mind the level of competition a player is competing against.

or if he comes in shorter and lighter than as advertised??????