OTAs, May 23-25, Jun 1-3, Jun 6-9, 2022.

[Krangodnzr]

Jake was a better quarterback.
Jake beat Dallas...in Dallas... back when they were actually good.

Now Kyler plays every week in the House that Jake Built,...and everyone thinks he is the greatest.

Did you post this with a straight face?

Plummer routinely almost had more turnovers in one season than Kyler did in two. Plummer was a below average QB by every metric. 1998 was a case study in a team that was put behind the eight ball by poor QB play for three quarters, and then when the QB mounted a comeback, he got all of the credit. Most of us hoped that Jake's erratic play would improve, but it never did.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oof. I'm as big a Kyler skeptic as there is, but this is a pretty challenging take.

The poor statistics for Kyler in December that you highlight in your signature, was better than a typical Jake Plummer season...

 

[kerouac9]

The poor statistics for Kyler in December that you highlight in your signature, was better than a typical Jake Plummer season...

I mean, it's a pretty different league now than it was when Jake was the QB here. Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl.

I just think calling the Giant Toaster "The House That Jake Built" is a pretty flimsy narrative to put out. The Cards were 3-13 the season the stadium funding was approved, Jake stunk the remainder of his time here, and everyone was happy when he left.

A lot of the same failures of leadership that Jake showed (not preparing outside of the facility, not attending offseason work) are the same as Kyler's committing now. Kyler is 1000% a more talented player than Jake was, but I honestly don't feel like Plummer looms as large over this franchise as Oaken suggests.

Kurt Warner
Larry Fitzgerald
Kyler
Carson Palmer
Anquan Boldin
... Then maybe Jake? Not for brain-infected people like those on this board, but for like general Arizonans?

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I mean, it's a pretty different league now than it was when Jake was the QB here. Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl.

I just think calling the Giant Toaster "The House That Jake Built" is a pretty flimsy narrative to put out. The Cards were 3-13 the season the stadium funding was approved, Jake stunk the remainder of his time here, and everyone was happy when he left.

A lot of the same failures of leadership that Jake showed (not preparing outside of the facility, not attending offseason work) are the same as Kyler's committing now. Kyler is 1000% a more talented player than Jake was, but I honestly don't feel like Plummer looms as large over this franchise as Oaken suggests.

Kurt Warner
Larry Fitzgerald
Kyler
Carson Palmer
Anquan Boldin
... Then maybe Jake? Not for brain-infected people like those on this board, but for like general Arizonans?

Jake doesn't even crack the top 10.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I mean, it's a pretty different league now than it was when Jake was the QB here. Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl.

I just think calling the Giant Toaster "The House That Jake Built" is a pretty flimsy narrative to put out. The Cards were 3-13 the season the stadium funding was approved, Jake stunk the remainder of his time here, and everyone was happy when he left.

A lot of the same failures of leadership that Jake showed (not preparing outside of the facility, not attending offseason work) are the same as Kyler's committing now. Kyler is 1000% a more talented player than Jake was, but I honestly don't feel like Plummer looms as large over this franchise as Oaken suggests.

Kurt Warner
Larry Fitzgerald
Kyler
Carson Palmer
Anquan Boldin
... Then maybe Jake? Not for brain-infected people like those on this board, but for like general Arizonans?

I'd throw Aeneas Williams and Patrick Peterson (gulp) ahead of Jake. A longshot would be Larry Centers as well.

 

[kerouac9]

I'd throw Aeneas Williams and Patrick Peterson (gulp) ahead of Jake. A longshot would be Larry Centers as well.

I actually don't think that today many Cards fans would remember Aeneas. I had him on my list, but I took him off.

My guy Karlos Dansby, Dockett, Aeneas, Patrick Peterson, even Edgerrin James make my personal list ahead of Jake. He's like a favorite nephew to me or something.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

Kyler? Kyler?

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'd throw Aeneas Williams and Patrick Peterson (gulp) ahead of Jake. A longshot would be Larry Centers as well.

Definitely Aeneas. I’d put Dansby, Dockett and Campbell above Jake too. Even begrudgingly put Peterson up there also.

 

[Dr. Jones]

I'd put Jake over Pat P. But still not in my 10.

Kurt, Carson, Larry, Boldin, Los, Dockett, Aeneas, Calais, ADub, Centers, and probably even Chandler.

Kyler, Pat, Jake, Mathieu, and probably Tillman are all lumped together for me if we only talk about on the field level stuff.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Definitely Aeneas. I’d put Dansby, Dockett and Campbell above Jake too. Even begrudgingly put Peterson up there also.

Jake is now so far back, and he said some crap when he left and he never came close to his potential because of his lack of work ethic.

That's not a guy on my personal list at all.

Agree on Dansby, Docket, and the rest.

Dockett orchestrated one of my favorite Cardinals plays ever against the Cowboys in 2008 (or was it 2009) when he sacked Tony Romo and got away with a blatant facemask. That's when I realized that Cardinals team was good enough that the refs let them get away with some crap.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Jake is now so far back, and he said some crap when he left and he never came close to his potential because of his lack of work ethic.

That's not a guy on my personal list at all.

Agree on Dansby, Docket, and the rest.

Dockett orchestrated one of my favorite Cardinals plays ever against the Cowboys in 2008 (or was it 2009) when he sacked Tony Romo and got away with a blatant facemask. That's when I realized that Cardinals team was good enough that the refs let them get away with some crap.

Yeah… when I think Cardinals, Jake barley registers at this point.

 

[Totally_Red]

The reality is that Kyler's work ethic and leadership have been questioned. The questionable leadership means paying up for if not overpaying for veterans like Watt, Ertz, and Conner. The work ethic issue means skipping voluntary OTAs adds to that perception.

With the forthcoming contract extension this season will be very interesting. Even a crap season won't bring any changes at QB, GM or head coach.

 

[oaken1]

Jake Plummer went door to door for weeks asking people to vote to approve the stadium.

When he beat Dallas my entire neighborhood was dancing in the streets. We knew it was as far as they would go but nobody cared. We beat the hated cowboys in their own house to knock them out of the playoffs. A defeat that had such a profound psychological affect on that franchise, they didn't even make the playoffs for 10 years.
We ended the cowboys dynasty... then Jake knocked on doors and asked for votes.

It IS and always WILL BE , The House that Jake built.


He'll, had we not spotted the Vikes 21 points the very next week, we would have been in the NFC Championship

 

[PACardsFan]

I am not longing for anything. I have said that it is a "meh" signing. They got a guy who can probably do the job but brings nothing extra. He was on one of the best offenses in football and was completely replaceable. It's fine, I won't be shocked if one of our incumbent RBs beats him out because that is what happened in KC.

It was like when we added Max Garcia. Ok vet OL who had some position versatility and was cheap. Didn't expect a ton and he delivered slightly below average production which was fine.

The Chiefs productive offense had very little to do with their run game. Their OL was average at best. Based on what we need from Williams, this was a very good signing. Conners is by far our #1 RB, but Williams can fill in just fine when Conners misses 2-3 games. And he WILL miss some games.

 

[football karma]

Yeah… when I think Cardinals, Jake barley registers at this point.

the SDS Cardinals are kinda ancient history now

 

[JosiahLee]

or it could be that I believe a guy who signs for the league minimum two months after the start of free agency is just not anything special.

or I could just believe that a QB has to actually win meaningful games in the first three seasons of his career before I believe that he is something special.

This board is so funny. Maybe a guy who signs for the league minimum is closer to being a replacement level player than not. Maybe a QB who is barely over a .500 win % and has not won a playoff game is closer to being an average NFL QB than a top one. At some point the facts are the facts despite the stories people want to tell themselves.

The market is what it is, and unfortunately decent qbs are now commanding $40 mil a year. Derek Carr has not one a playoff game in 8 starting seasons with the Raiders, and also has a worse win/loss record than Kyler, yet is getting $40 million a year.

We know Kyler is now going to get at least $40 mil a year. I think the Cards best move is to try and sign him for as many years as possible, say at least 6 or 7 years in hopes that by the end of the contract they will finally be getting value on the deal.

 

[Cheesebeef]

the SDS Cardinals are kinda ancient history now

And there was only ONE good year in its entire existence… and that “good year”, as exciting as the games were, was a 9-7 season. Definitely highlighted by the ass kicking of the Cowboys, but in the grand scheme of things, nothing like the success we’ve had since 2007.

 

[football karma]

And there was only ONE good year in its entire existence… and that “good year”, as exciting as the games were, was a 9-7 season. Definitely highlighted by the ass kicking of the Cowboys, but in the grand scheme of things, nothing like the success we’ve had since 2007.

yep,

and i say that as someone who went to many, many games at SDS

i feel like the local Cardinal experience for many started with the new stadium

 

[BritCard]

or it could be that I believe a guy who signs for the league minimum two months after the start of free agency is just not anything special.

We signed James Conner in June and he had 18 touchdowns, 1000+ scrimmage yards and made the pro bowl

 

[BritCard]

The reality is that Kyler's work ethic and leadership have been questioned. The questionable leadership means paying up for if not overpaying for veterans like Watt, Ertz, and Conner. The work ethic issue means skipping voluntary OTAs adds to that perception.

With the forthcoming contract extension this season will be very interesting. Even a crap season won't bring any changes at QB, GM or head coach.

How are they overpaid?

JJ Watt is the joint 9th best paid DT in the league alongside Fletcher Cox who is the same age. He's paid $2.5m less than older Cam Heyward. He barely earns more than DJ Reader.

Ertz is the 10th best paid TE in the league. The only player better than him getting paid less is Darren Waller and that's because his contract pre dates all the current ones.

Conner, myabe, because I don't value paying RB's. But he's getting paid the same as Fournette who had a similar season, didn't make the Pro Bowl and is the same age. And nobody is complaining about that deal. And looking at the table his floor is $6m, so it's not like he's being grossly overpaid.

 

[cardpa]

I wish people would stop saying a player making the pro bowl a big deal when in reality it's a bonus clause in many contracts and so many with the pro bowl designations were alternates of alternates because most players don't give a rats behind about the pro bowl other than extra money. The pro bowl has gotten to the point where it's. participation trophy.

 

[BritCard]

I wish people would stop saying a player making the pro bowl a big deal when in reality it's a bonus clause in many contracts and so many with the pro bowl designations were alternates of alternates because most players don't give a rats behind about the pro bowl other than extra money. The pro bowl has gotten to the point where it's. participation trophy.

The pro bowl is garbage and means nothing. It should be ended.

At the same time, I'm tired of people complaining about Conner's contract, including the wider NFL media, and ignoring Fournettes when there is barely anything between them career wise or last season and Fournette is older.

Especially when many of those guys do value the Pro Bowl as talent indicator.

 

[Jetstream Green]

I wish people would stop saying a player making the pro bowl a big deal when in reality it's a bonus clause in many contracts and so many with the pro bowl designations were alternates of alternates because most players don't give a rats behind about the pro bowl other than extra money. The pro bowl has gotten to the point where it's. participation trophy.

The game itself is a waste of time, but the title still carries weight even though it's often based on perception and not production

 

[Ronin]

xc_hide_links_from_guests_guests_error_hide_media

 

[Ronin]

Adam Schefter

@AdamSchefter

Cardinals’ OTAs resume today and QB Kyler Murray is back in their training facility and expected to be on the practice field for the first time during their off-season program, per league source.