Packers 31 Cardinals 17 Post Game Thoughts

[Mitch]

If you were ever in a position to beat the Packers at Lambeau Field this was the day.

1. They struggled mightily with a 1-7 Jaguar team at home the week before.

2. Their injury situation is horrendous---this was a Packer team that in the second half of this game was without:

WR Greg Jennings
WR Jordy Nelson
T Brian Baluga
DT Corey Raji
OLB Chase Matthews
CB Charles Woodson

3. Let's just say that for a team like the Cardinals who have had to face RBs the likes of Marshawn Lynch, Stephen Jackson and Adrian Peterson---these current Packer RBs are a reprieve.

4. What cost the Cardinals today was playing with no swagger whatsoever on defense---with very little effort and confidence on special teams---and at costly times with egregious lapses in concentration catching the football, especially on third downs.

The play of the game?

To me, it was Whisenhunt falling miserably asleep at the switch when Donald Driver made a juggling catch and was tackled short of a first down. What could it hurt challenging the play---Buck and Aikman were in complete agreement that the spot was too generous---it's the first half---where timeouts really don't matter.

Amazingly no challenge ensued and bang the very next play Aaron Rodgers throws a perfect picture fade pass to Randall Cobb, with near perfect coverage by Williams Gay (who played his best game as a Cardinal today)---and Green Bay is Lambeau leaping handily toward an easy win.

Then the Cardinals make it close on two occasions thanks to an outstanding improvised run to the pylon by Hyphen (who again played his heart out today) and a stellar catch and RAC TD by an outstretched Larry Fitzgerald, only to have the defense get run into the ground the first time by James Starks, Randall Cobb (where one time the Cardinals had a NT and no DE to one side of him) and Alex Green and then the second time by surrendering a 72 yard TE seam pass that was so wide open up the middle the TE Crabtree had neither Cardinals' safety within 20 yards of him. The culprit on the play was ILB Paris Lenon who has not been right for basically this whole losing streak---he's not been making plays, he's been late reacting to run and pass...he's clearly playing hurt...but he's still in there because Ray Horton doesn't trust anyone else calling the plays.

As for Horton the luster of his magic has been wearing off in epic proportions---the problem is he is having a very difficult time getting his defensive stars to show up---Darnell Dockett is good for 1-2 plays a game the last 5 weeks...Calais Campbell has been slowed considerably and looks like he is not going to get up every time he makes a tackle...Patrick Peterson had possibly his worst game as a pro last Monday Night and is now a fumbling head-case as punt returner...and Adrian Wilson continues to try to play the safety position by throwing shoulders at runners and not coming anywhere near what would be considered a fundamental tackle. His effort on WR Randall Cobb was about as poor as any defensive safety can make inside the goal line.

Daryl Washington had been the bright spot until today and even he looked half into it out there.

The bright spot was the play of the Cardinal CBs Gay and Fleming, only despite applying almost perfect coverage, they got burned by passes that your or I could only walk over and place right into the perfect spot.

The worst of all was the play of all 4 LB spots---they didn't fill and they didn't cover---they were sitting ducks, basically and sadly O'Brien Schofield who was trying to make an stop got his ankle rolled and may be out for several weeks. In his place, Quentin Groves got some pressure off the edge but he jumped off-sides and didn't play smart on several occasions.

On offense---there was more of a fight to try to win.

John Skelton was given adequate time thanks in part to a surprising personnel shift at LT when rookie Nate Potter was tried and, after a few hiccups early, settled down quite well.

Skelton started to get a little help in the running game, thanks to Hyphen squirting around for as many extra yards as his 5'7" frame would allow---and the big thing was Skelton actually threw a couple of very good deep passes (an anomaly around here this season)---the first to Andre Roberts (who yes was held briefly on the 4th down play late as he tired to gain separation) and the second on a key 4th down to Michael Floyd.

What spoiled Skelton's day were extremely untimely drops on third down plays from Early Doucet and Rob Houlser. Houlser came back to atone for his drop, while Doucet compounded his by making a lame attempt to catch another ball---really about tow of the more lame attempts to catch two perfectly thrown passes as there ever could be.

What also spoiled Skelton's day was getting poor effort from both the guards---Daryn Colledge and Rich Ohrnsberger---so much so I may not be the only one who hopes to see Senio Kelemete start at one of those spots following the bye. Colledge has been horrible for two straight weeks---and he should be the most consistent lineman. Too bad Skelton is still a little too young to get right up into Colledge's face mask---because you know Russ Grimm won't. I have never seen an NFL coach care as little as Russ Grimm---he looks unaffected, like he could give two sheists.

With CKW and Grimm as the main offensive coaches---what free agent QB would ever want to come to Arizona? Seriously.

And then there's Mike Miller who today decided to chew John Skelton's arse out on the sidelines right when all the momentum is on AZ's side as the offense has just marched down to the Packer 11 yard line and with a TD can make it 24-21---and all because Miller was sending new personnel onto the field and the play was coming in late and Skelton couldn't beat the play clock.

Skelton was finally in a groove and looking confident---but hey, Miller, why not rip into him at that moment? Good timing, tough guy.

It also didn't help that the play-calling from Mike Miller through CKW was again about as predictable as 40 degree weather this time of year in Green Bay.

The first play to start the first half? A two yard pass to TE Rob Housler---which I am still not sure what that play accomplishes...and the first play of the second half, the same 2 yard pass play to Housler only this time GB is on to it, jumps the route for a tip and gets an easy interception.

On short yardage plays---running Hyphen not once but twice into the middle on key goal-line plays---Hyphen bailed the coaches out on the first one but no such luck on the second. This play is akin to calling a key 4th down flat pass to Reagan Maui'a with Antoine Winfield of all CBs covering.

From first (4 weeks ago) and heading to worst (5 weeks later)...

I watched the Seahawks in the second game---they are a far superior football team---they play together---they play smart---Marshawn Lynch runs harder than any RB in the NFL today---and they tackle and cover as in sticky cover on defense---they rush you fast off the edges. And the way Russell Wilson is improving---man, he's got the look of something special. He's actually better off playing small, because he has great vision anyway and the defense can't read him. Amazing too that he always seems to be passing through wide open passing lanes, that is if he isn't giving the opponents fits with his scrambling ability. He is so incredibly calm and poised out there.

I actually think the Seahawks could catch the 49ers late in the season---that is if Lynch holds up. That guy is phenomenal. I can't recall ever seeing a RB run as hard and tough as he does. It takes 3 tacklers to bring him down.

Funny that the Seahawks got him in a trade deadline deal that cost them a mere 4th round pick.

That (making a trade deadline deal), as we saw once again even more disconcertedly this year after a 4-0 start and with glaring weaknesses to fix, is not something the Cardinals would care to do---but, hey, as they tell us, "we are always trying to improve our football team."

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

The best thing Whis did today was to tell Miller to **** during that timeout.

 

[slanidrac16]

Mitch correct me if I'm wrong about Skelton.


I think he is slow. He is slow setting up when not in shotgun and he has a slow release.

He stares down his primary receiver.

He throws late. He had Fitz open ( the one where Fitz slipped). Had he thrown that ball a 1/2 a second sooner ( quicker) it would have gotten to Fitz before he slipped. Last week he did the same thing to Roberts on a short pass to the left. By the time Roberts got the ball the db was all over him.

Thanks.

 

[WildBB]

Right on the $$ WMitch!! It's easy to pile on right now - but hey they EARNED IT!

 

[Mitch]

Mitch correct me if I'm wrong about Skelton.


I think he is slow. He is slow setting up when not in shotgun and he has a slow release.

He stares down his primary receiver.

He throws late. He had Fitz open ( the one where Fitz slipped). Had he thrown that ball a 1/2 a second sooner ( quicker) it would have gotten to Fitz before he slipped. Last week he did the same thing to Roberts on a short pass to the left. By the time Roberts got the ball the db was all over him.

Thanks.

First of all, slan...I've been reading your posts today and I think you are making great points---

Part of it, Skelton is trying to find a groove and each play he doesn't have any idea how quickly he has to get rid of the ball.

But today he settled down and we will never know what would have happened to the two drives he had going when Doucet and then Housler dropped the passes.

The pass he threw to Fitz up the sideline was thrown over the corner and underneath the safety, so it was the right kind of throw on a very accurate zone read. Fitz slipped---that's a play he would normally make.

Skelton does lock on...but today he checked off more than usual---again it's part of wondering whether he has 2.1 seconds to get rid of the ball.

Look at the long balls he threw today---and some of the zip intermediate passes he threw to Fitz---he has a big-time arm.

Yes, he has a longer motion than say a Drew Brees, but he's a bigger player.

Today he wasn't rushing it as bad as last week. which was why he was sailing some passes.

But best of all---he's tough. He played with his head up the whole game versus the team that leads the NFL in sacks.

 

[Chopper0080]

First of all, slan...I've been reading your posts today and I think you are making great points---

Part of it, Skelton is trying to find a groove and each play he doesn't have any idea how quickly he has to get rid of the ball.

But today he settled down and we will never know what would have happened to the two drives he had going when Doucet and then Housler dropped the passes.

The pass he threw to Fitz up the sideline was thrown over the corner and underneath the safety, so it was the right kind of throw on a very accurate zone read. Fitz slipped---that's a play he would normally make.

Skelton does lock on...but today he checked off more than usual---again it's part of wondering whether he has 2.1 seconds to get rid of the ball.

Look at the long balls he threw today---and some of the zip intermediate passes he threw to Fitz---he has a big-time arm.

Yes, he has a longer motion than say a Drew Brees, but he's a bigger player.

Today he wasn't rushing it as bad as last week. which was why he was sailing some passes.

But best of all---he's tough. He played with his head up the whole game versus the team that leads the NFL in sacks.

Pretty accurate assessment here. Skelton has slow feet which is why his drops are inconsistently timed which throws off the timing of his throws in conjunction with his receivers routes. Sometimes he drops back fast, sometimes he drops back slow. The nice thing for the linemen is he seems to drop at a pretty consistent depth which helps them. Skelton played well enough for us to win today, but not well enough to overcome the defense.

 

[PJ1]

Absolutely agree the Packers were beatable today with a good all around effort from from the Cards. Don't agree our secondary played well. True Gay had a pick but the Packer receivers also had drops. If that was Gay's best game he has really been bad which he certainly has. Fleming is a kid but gives way too much cushion. He did have the coverage perfect on the TD pass.

I believe ADUB is hurt and is the reason he refuses to wrap up. If so he is hurting his team because he isn't doing a thing.

Skelton had a decent game and today's performance is probably as good as we get from him.

The play calling was bad again. I believe Fitz was also telling Miller to calm down on the sidelines. The guy looks like a little weasel. In over his head for sure.

Yelling at poor Lurch is inexcusable.

 

[Mitch]

Pretty accurate assessment here. Skelton has slow feet which is why his drops are inconsistently timed which throws off the timing of his throws in conjunction with his receivers routes. Sometimes he drops back fast, sometimes he drops back slow. The nice thing for the linemen is he seems to drop at a pretty consistent depth which helps them. Skelton played well enough for us to win today, but not well enough to overcome the defense.

The thing I like about Skelton, Chopper, is that he bounces back from his mistakes---he doesn't fail for lack of effort---and he doesn't cave in under pressure. Today he made all the NFL throws---and for the most part he was on target. As you state, his mechanics are very much a work in progress---but today there was progress.

 

[82CardsGrad]

The NFL is all about play-makers. And when you don't have a play-maker at key positions, oh... you know, like QB, it's nearly impossible to win...
Most any other QB in the NFL would've produced a W today for the Cards. The Pack was primed to be picked off today. The incredibly poor play-calling and piss-poor coaching aside, the Cards still could've pulled this one out had they had an actual NFL starter at the helm today.
The simple truth is that Skelton is simply not good enough. Not by a long shot.
Colledge isn't good enough.
Ohernberger is not good enough.
LSH and WiPo are not starter good enough... and, I course still question of Beanie and Ryan Williams are as well...
Doucet is not good enough.

But, most importantly, Skelton is not at all good enough... would've loved to have seen what Lindley might have done today.

Also, ADUB is no longer good enough...

 

[gmabel830]

The play of the game?

To me, it was Whisenhunt falling miserably asleep at the switch when Donald Driver made a juggling catch and was tackled short of a first down. What could it hurt challenging the play---Buck and Aikman were in complete agreement that the spot was too generous---it's the first half---where timeouts really don't matter.

Amazingly no challenge ensued and bang the very next play Aaron Rodgers throws a perfect picture fade pass to Randall Cobb, with near perfect coverage by Williams Gay (who played his best game as a Cardinal today)---and Green Bay is Lambeau leaping handily toward an easy win.

I thought the spot was total crap, but I also thought that (a) We had already used a challenge (successfully), (b) challenging the spot of the ball is probably the most difficult call to get overturned. If we had challenged and lost, we would have been out of challenges for the 2nd half (if we would have won, we would have gotten an extra one). So, I don't think it was really the timeout situation that was why we didn't challenge, it was the possibility of not have any challenges for the second half.

The fact they scored a TD on the very next play certainly made the decision look worse in hindsight.

 

[Mitch]

The NFL is all about play-makers. And when you don't have a play-maker at key positions, oh... you know, like QB, it's nearly impossible to win...
Most any other QB in the NFL would've produced a W today for the Cards. The Pack was primed to be picked off today. The incredibly poor play-calling and piss-poor coaching aside, the Cards still could've pulled this one out had they had an actual NFL starter at the helm today.
The simple truth is that Skelton is simply not good enough. Not by a long shot.
Colledge isn't good enough.
Ohernberger is not good enough.
LSH and WiPo are not starter good enough... and, I course still question of Beanie and Ryan Williams are as well...
Doucet is not good enough.

But, most importantly, Skelton is not at all good enough... would've loved to have seen what Lindley might have done today.

Also, ADUB is no longer good enough...

I want to see more of John Skelton before I arrive at the decision that he's not good enough. I don't think any young QB can be properly assessed in fewer than 20 starts. Look at how long it took Alex Smith to be good and to string wins together.

What impressed me about Skelton today was when he shouted "catch the ball" after yet another dropped third down pass that was right on the money.

It takes a young QB a little time to be able to feel comfortable getting on the other players.

I don't think there is any question that his teammates respect him.

Actually, whether you like him or not, it's pretty hard not to respect Skelton. He hangs in there and takes his licks and he bounces back up. The game does not look like it's too much for him---and he looks like he enjoys playing, even when he is taking hit after hit.

 

[LarryStalling]

The offensive guards were horrible, but I watched the second half again to see why. My old buddy Sendlien was back to being himself again. Part of the reason the guards were getting blown up on plays out of the shotgun is because he was tipping the snap again. If you doubt it, just go back and look. The packer center did not tip the play but ours does. Wish they would fix that.

 

[Broseph]

Hard to argue, GB is pretty beat up as well, can't run the ball, and came out and were just too much for the Cardinals. This season is turning into the twilight zone, it's going to be interesting to see but I think we may win one more game for the entire year (STL at home). 5-11 is looking like a reality, hopefully that is enough to get some new coaching personnel in here.

 

[WarnerHOF]

I found it quite funny when they somehow left the NT unblocked

 

[Buckybird]

Thanks for you're analysis Mitch & others

1) I agree this game was there for a possible shocking win

2)maybe Grimm is a douche & along for the check. Funny as he walked too & from the players tunnel before the game, Cards fans yelled "hey Russ" & kids wanted his autograph...he looked at the ground & never responded to anyone.

3) Skelton while he played solid, left plays on the field although WRs didn't help his cause. I mentioned his slow footwork & overall slow passing skills last year & all anyone brought up was his spot on the ESPN breakdown of his quick delivery compared to Mannings...complete hogwash!!!

4) impressed, but not shocked by Potters better play at OT instead of Batiste

5) I'm concerned about our secondary. Gay is strictly a zone CB, Fleming is a rook & hasn't impressed me. Does AW still play for the Cards? PP is our best & he's far from anything special IMO

6) we still need a OLB who commands respect & attention every play! Schohawk isn't that good & Acho is an average OLB, nothing more. If the Cards want to have a dominate D, they need a edge rusher who produces every game & makes offenses scheme against him.

7) too many drops by the by our receivers. I was waiting all day to see Housler attack the Packs D deep down the seam all day, I'm still waiting.

4-6 here we come

 

[52brandon]

But best of all---he's tough. He played with his head up the whole game versus the team that leads the NFL in sacks.

is that simply an observation? Or was it a shot at Kolb? I thought Kolb has shown great toughness this year, which came as a complete surprise after last year


on a different subject. How did Potter look? I heard he went in in the 2nd and we didn't give up a sack after he went in. I missed the game and wont have a chance to check out my recording until probably tomorrow. I was hoping to see something about him in your review. Analysts were very high on him after the '11 draft, saying he would be one of the top OTs in the '12 draft, but obviously they were wrong. I'm hoping that he was able to get back whatever he showed to get that kind of praise. Would be nice if he shows that he is at least a solid backup-caliber LT. Which is more than I can say for Batiste

I would also like to see Kelemete get some time on the field. I think at this point, it's safe to say the Superbowl is out of the picture. Whiz needs to evaluate the guys we have and try to figure out what we have in the young guys moving forward

the coaching staff needs to change. Miller is freaking awful. It seems the longer our O-linemen get to work with Grimm as starters, the worse they become. I know I'm a broken record on this, but those 2 not only have brought nothing positive to this team, their presence honestly seems to be hurting us. I do like Whiz as a HC, but if his loyalty is so blind to these 2 that he is not doing the job he was hired to do (win football games), he needs to go too. The FO really needs to break it down to him like that

 

[Chopper0080]

The offensive guards were horrible, but I watched the second half again to see why. My old buddy Sendlien was back to being himself again. Part of the reason the guards were getting blown up on plays out of the shotgun is because he was tipping the snap again. If you doubt it, just go back and look. The packer center did not tip the play but ours does. Wish they would fix that.

Our interior line is awful. I didn't see him tipping the snap, but I did see those three get beat again and again. Seriously, it shouldn't be that hard to pick up a defensive stunt.

 

[Mitch]

is that simply an observation? Or was it a shot at Kolb? I thought Kolb has shown great toughness this year, which came as a complete surprise after last year


on a different subject. How did Potter look? I heard he went in in the 2nd and we didn't give up a sack after he went in. I missed the game and wont have a chance to check out my recording until probably tomorrow. I was hoping to see something about him in your review. Analysts were very high on him after the '11 draft, saying he would be one of the top OTs in the '12 draft, but obviously they were wrong. I'm hoping that he was able to get back whatever he showed to get that kind of praise. Would be nice if he shows that he is at least a solid backup-caliber LT. Which is more than I can say for Batiste

I would also like to see Kelemete get some time on the field. I think at this point, it's safe to say the Superbowl is out of the picture. Whiz needs to evaluate the guys we have and try to figure out what we have in the young guys moving forward

the coaching staff needs to change. Miller is freaking awful. It seems the longer our O-linemen get to work with Grimm as starters, the worse they become. I know I'm a broken record on this, but those 2 not only have brought nothing positive to this team, their presence honestly seems to be hurting us. I do like Whiz as a HC, but if his loyalty is so blind to these 2 that he is not doing the job he was hired to do (win football games), he needs to go too. The FO really needs to break it down to him like that

Brandon---Kolb has won my respect---I don't think anyone can question his toughness after the way he gutted it out in his string of games.

 

[Chopper0080]

is that simply an observation? Or was it a shot at Kolb? I thought Kolb has shown great toughness this year, which came as a complete surprise after last year


on a different subject. How did Potter look? I heard he went in in the 2nd and we didn't give up a sack after he went in. I missed the game and wont have a chance to check out my recording until probably tomorrow. I was hoping to see something about him in your review. Analysts were very high on him after the '11 draft, saying he would be one of the top OTs in the '12 draft, but obviously they were wrong. I'm hoping that he was able to get back whatever he showed to get that kind of praise. Would be nice if he shows that he is at least a solid backup-caliber LT. Which is more than I can say for Batiste

I would also like to see Kelemete get some time on the field. I think at this point, it's safe to say the Superbowl is out of the picture. Whiz needs to evaluate the guys we have and try to figure out what we have in the young guys moving forward

the coaching staff needs to change. Miller is freaking awful. It seems the longer our O-linemen get to work with Grimm as starters, the worse they become. I know I'm a broken record on this, but those 2 not only have brought nothing positive to this team, their presence honestly seems to be hurting us. I do like Whiz as a HC, but if his loyalty is so blind to these 2 that he is not doing the job he was hired to do (win football games), he needs to go too. The FO really needs to break it down to him like that

I posted a thread with a breakdown and summary. In short he was good, but is far from a finished product. Honestly, our interior line is worse than our OTs. Both Massie and Potter need to improve their strength, but they at least have the athleticism to off set it. Our interior is terrible.

 

[WildBB]

Actually, whether you like him or not, it's pretty hard not to respect Skelton. He hangs in there and takes his licks and he bounces back up. The game does not look like it's too much for him---and he looks like he enjoys playing, even when he is taking hit after hit.

Some games he's really off. But your right he's still only got less than 15 starts, he's still a work in progress. And yes, you get the feeling it;'s definitely not overwhelming for him and he's having a blast out there. Especially if he has any time in the pocket.

 

[WildBB]

I posted a thread with a breakdown and summary. In short he was good, but is far from a finished product. Honestly, our interior line is worse than our OTs. Both Massie and Potter need to improve their strength, but they at least have the athleticism to off set it. Our interior is terrible.

Definitely agree,interior has been getting blown up for most of the season. We need new blood in there BIG TIME.

 

[AZ Native]

I too thought it was a bad spot. Usually what happens (as did on the next close play) is they spot the ball and measure to see if it is a first down. During this time the coaches upstairs can look at the play and see if we should throw the red flag. But no, the official charges to the line of scrimmage while calling it a first down long before he got there. Green Bay lines up and runs the next play with very little time for us to review it. It was unusal the way it played out.

 

[Dayman]

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/car...-needs-alter-approach-after-ugly-stretch.html

The head coach wasn’t immune, failing to challenge an extremely generous spot that gave the Packers a first down in the second quarter, allowing the hosts to score a touchdown on the very next play.

“What can you challenge?” he asked. “You can’t challenge a spot. So it has to be a first down or a catch. I guess I could’ve challenged the first down, but they won’t usually let you challenge them when it’s a judgment call.”

That’s the wrong answer. It’s also very surprising since Whisenhunt is on the NFL’s competition committee, and is one of the better at wielding the red challenge flag.

 

[nashman]

Omg our HC who helps make the rules doesn't know you can challenge the spot? This guy has freakin lost it!

 

[52brandon]

Brandon---Kolb has won my respect---I don't think anyone can question his toughness after the way he gutted it out in his string of games.

just checking lol. The way I saw it was that it could have been taken either way

I posted a thread with a breakdown and summary. In short he was good, but is far from a finished product. Honestly, our interior line is worse than our OTs. Both Massie and Potter need to improve their strength, but they at least have the athleticism to off set it. Our interior is terrible.

I read that. Thank you for such a detailed observation. I'm glad he finally got a shot. Batiste has done nothing to show he deserves the job (which isn't even his fault, considering that it's not even his position). Maybe give him a run on the inside, and for the love of God, at LEAST dress Kelemete. I've heard he impressed in preseason/camp. Considering how UNimpressive our line is, I think he deserves a shot too