Penny Goes Off

[Gee!]

Penny in todays AZRepublic

I meant it when I said we're playing selfish. Did I offend my teammates? I don't care. I'm a realist. We're 9-16. Hopefully, some of it will sink in. It's shot selection. Young players feel they can do anything. They don't care about the time on the clock, anything. Sometimes there's no guidance and they just jack the ball.

It's about youth and caring too much about being an All-Star. Some guys don't care about losing. They want their 25 points and 10 dimes and don't care if they lose. I've been around long enough to know the winning remedy. It's teamwork, selflessness and making the team around you better.

Hardaway's diatribe Wednesday were the words of a player with 60 games of playoff experience, most with Orlando, where fan interest was so intense, "I could have sold my player tickets and bought a condo."

I've been there. That's why I hate this so much

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Wow. First time in a while Hardaway has said something like that.

With that being said, this time it is true. Although, I think he might have over done it on the wanting to be an allstar instead of winning bit. That will just piss a lot of people off. The message could have gone a lot better without that part.

I don't even know if that is true. I just think a lot of people are trying to prove they belong on this team, and are a part of the winning formula. CJ, JJ, even Voskuhl have a lot to prove to the coaching staff, and the rest of the league. I think they still care a lot about winning (look at their reactions after beating Seattle), its just they are trying to do to much to help the team win.

Maybe I am just naive.



BTW, I am amazed that you are awake at 4:10 in the morning reading the paper. I still haven't gone to bed

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

Here is the full article

If Suns win, that old buzz may return

Republic columnist
Dec. 18, 2003 12:00 AM


Let's step aside and give Penny Hardaway the podium for a few minutes.

I meant it when I said we're playing selfish. Did I offend my teammates? I don't care. I'm a realist. We're 9-16. Hopefully, some of it will sink in. It's shot selection. Young players feel they can do anything. They don't care about the time on the clock, anything. Sometimes there's no guidance and they just jack the ball.

It's about youth and caring too much about being an All-Star. Some guys don't care about losing. They want their 25 points and 10 dimes and don't care if they lose. I've been around long enough to know the winning remedy. It's teamwork, selflessness and making the team around you better.

That, my fellow Americans, is why the Suns have the worst record in the Western Conference. Who knew the 11-11 mark of today's opponent, Portland, would be downright enviable?

Hardaway's diatribe Wednesday were the words of a player with 60 games of playoff experience, most with Orlando, where fan interest was so intense, "I could have sold my player tickets and bought a condo."

There's no such vibe in America West Arena. Even when the crowd has been good, the energy level hasn't - nothing like the early 1990s, when the arena was the place to be seen and fans scheduled their days around watching Suns games.

In 1993, 300,000 fans braved 100-degree-plus temperatures for a downtown parade to honor a team . . . that had lost in the NBA Finals.

An evolving marketplace - hello, Coyotes; hello, Diamondbacks - affects interest, but the lack of interest has more to do with a lack of winning.

The Suns have tried to capitalize on the early-1990s popularity by staying connected to the past, from bringing back Dan Majerle to hiring Frank Johnson.

The truth is, sports fans are no longer a nostalgic bunch. All they really want from that era is a comparable winning formula.

Here's the funny thing about the 1993 Charles Barkley-led NBA Finals team. The Suns were rich in talent but criticized for their fundamentals and defense. Sound familiar?

This year's version isn't as talented but is clearly underachieving. That's why Hardaway likes the direction of new coach Mike D'Antoni, who plans to simplify the offense to three or four sets and emphasize smart defense.

"I want them to have a thorough knowledge of what we're doing," D'Antoni said Wednesday.

That thorough knowledge of a limited number of plays will limit the amount of, well, freelancing.

"I want this to be a young, talented and disciplined team," D'Antoni said.

Two down, one to go.

D'Antoni respectfully disagreed with Hardaway's take. He blames the team's struggles on young players whose games are still evolving.

The truth is probably somewhere in between. D'Antoni needs to find a way to make the parts fit, to create a team that's equal parts successful and exciting to energize the Phoenix crowd.

"There's nothing like that town when you're winning," said Denver assistant John MacLeod, who coached the Suns from 1973 to 1987. "We're all everybody talked about."

Hardaway said: "I've been there. That's why I hate this so much."





http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1218boivin1218.html

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by thegrahamcrackr
Here is the full article

If Suns win, that old buzz may return

Republic columnist
Dec. 18, 2003 12:00 AM


Let's step aside and give Penny Hardaway the podium for a few minutes.

I meant it when I said we're playing selfish. Did I offend my teammates? I don't care. I'm a realist. We're 9-16. Hopefully, some of it will sink in. It's shot selection. Young players feel they can do anything. They don't care about the time on the clock, anything. Sometimes there's no guidance and they just jack the ball.

It's about youth and caring too much about being an All-Star. Some guys don't care about losing. They want their 25 points and 10 dimes and don't care if they lose. I've been around long enough to know the winning remedy. It's teamwork, selflessness and making the team around you better.


http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns/1218boivin1218.html

This seems like a thinly veiled jab at Stephon Marbury to me. I'm not sure why Hardaway would make these comments now when the Phoenix Suns have got to have a little momentum after the exciting win against Seattle the other night.

I totally disagree with his opinion as well. The Phoenix Suns troubles are about poor coaching (Frank Johnson), injuries, and a Western Conference that is much more competitive from top to bottom this season. IMO if we took last year's Phoenix Suns team and played them this season against this schedule they would not be doing a whole lot better.

Besides, wasn't did D'Antoni's plan to have the Phoenix Suns shoot the ball early and often? That's what he said when he took over. In fact they have struggled most of all when they pass on open shots, let the shot clock run down, and force bad shots before the violation.

I don't like this at all.

Joe Mama

 

[sly fly]

Penny is so right about this, that it's not even funny.

Most young players live in Video Game Land.

You can thank David Stern for letting this fester. I'm so sick of seeing 5-18 from the field.

Give me Raja Bell, Eric Snow, Matt Harpring, Brent Barry, Ben Wallace, Steve Nash, Malik Rose and a handful of others and I'll be happy.

This PHX Suns team is absolutely foul. Joe Johnson hasn't a clue to what he's doing. And, to think he's making millions. PHX is better off without him.

Marbury dribbles the clock down and tries a ONE ON ONE move with absolutely no creativity. Yeah, nice basketball. Whatever happened to backdoor cuts and passing the ball around a few times. Geez, a least make the defense work a little. Show a little sack and try something new.

That's why I was so surprised at the Marion/Hardaway alley-oop. I'm still in amazement about that one.

The Colangelos wanted to keep this team intact. But, it's going to be VERY hard to see this through.

(... enough rambling before work!)

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Marbury does as Marbury is instructed to do. We have heard this repeatedly from the coaches. In fact, the biggest complaint that the coaches have had on Marbury is that he is too unselfish. Try cracking open the paper yourself Sly fly and read the huge article praising Marbury as the team's leader.


As for Penny, he is simply wrong...wrong...and still wrong. Just when I was starting to support him being on this team again, he opens his jackrag mouth in the media.

Welcome back Nickel. I can't wait until the day you pollute another team with your BS.

 

[JerkFace]

this is definately a crack on marbury... who elso on the team has ever gotten 25 points and 10 assists. penny needs to keep his mouth shut, right now he is one of the most inconsistent players on the team.

 

[sly fly]

Originally posted by Chris_Sanders
Marbury does as Marbury is instructed to do. We have heard this repeatedly from the coaches. In fact, the biggest complaint that the coaches have had on Marbury is that he is too unselfish. Try cracking open the paper yourself Sly fly and read the huge article praising Marbury as the team's leader.


As for Penny, he is simply wrong...wrong...and still wrong. Just when I was starting to support him being on this team again, he opens his jackrag mouth in the media.

Welcome back Nickel. I can't wait until the day you pollute another team with your BS.

I read the article. So, Marbury goes and buys video equipment. He's the team leader by default. Great!

Listen, Marbury is the least of their worries.

What part of the Penny quote was wrong? He's absolutely right. He's not trying to ruffle feathers.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Originally posted by SameOleGee


I meant it when I said we're playing selfish. Did I offend my teammates? I don't care. I'm a realist. We're 9-16. Hopefully, some of it will sink in. It's shot selection. Young players feel they can do anything. They don't care about the time on the clock, anything. Sometimes there's no guidance and they just jack the ball.

This is wrong. You don't put the onus on young players for not managing the clock...that is coaching.

It's about youth and caring too much about being an All-Star. Some guys don't care about losing. They want their 25 points and 10 dimes and don't care if they lose.

If this is a shot at Marbury, then it is a piss poor one. I highly doubt anyone on the Suns cares more about winning than Marbury. Like I said, he does as he is instructed. Actually, now that I think about it...I think this is a shot at Marion. Just change dimes to rebounds and it is a shot at Marion. But it doesn't matter who it is a shot at...What Penny simply doesn't understand is you don't do this sort of crap through the media. You do what Marbury does...you call a guy out behind closed doors and to his face.

I've been around long enough to know the winning remedy. It's teamwork, selflessness and making the team around you better.

Yeah Nickel, you have been around long enough to know how to hide on IR, lie about how injured you really are, and blame everyone else for the short comings of your team instead of taking your share of that very blame.

I've been there. That's why I hate this so much [/B]

We have been here as well you damn cancer Nickel. Shut your yap and collect your check...which is pretty much all you have done since you signed on with the Suns.

 

[schutd]

Once again, Penny says something, ANYTHING and this whole board goes into Freudian Analysis-mode and makes assumptions of meaning and at who the "shot" was directed at. File this under the pissed off fan trying to find any fault with anyone, at any time, anywhere for any reason.

When are y'all going to realize that Penny's not taking shots? Its simply that he's just not very bright.

 

[cheng]

Penny is wrong for saying something like this to the media although its true to some extend. But its really the poor coaching and injuries.

To question anyone on the team doesn't care about winning is just wrong.

 

[SweetD]

I can understand the selfness part but to blatantly call out Steph is just wrong. I may call out Marion for not wanting to go to the basket but to say Steph is not worried about winning is just ridicules.

 

[elindholm]

Does it strike anyone else as odd that there are no quotation marks in those first two paragraphs, presented as a direct quote from Hardaway? I see that the original article uses Italics, which is usually a way of representing someone's thoughts, not his words. How reputable is this "Paola Boivin" character? A responsible journalist would provide, at the minimum, a day, time, and setting for such inflammatory material.

I consider it very unlikely that Hardaway would be so stupid as to say those things. I think it must be an exaggeration of some idle remark he made -- if not an outright fabrication.

If the words really are from Hardaway, then he is clueless beyond belief. You don't criticize your teammates' effort when you are the worst defender on the team. You don't criticize their desire to win when you shy away from the ball in crunch time. And you certainly don't criticize their "me first" attitude when you whine every time you aren't in the starting lineup.

There are only a few athletes in all of professional sports that are that stupid. Hardaway can't really be one of them, can he?

 

[slinslin]

I think it is funny coming from Penny who looks like he has no fire, focus or any type of winning attitude.

Penny Hardaway on the court looks so much like he doesn't care that you have to think he is just riding out his contract.

He makes one great play against Orlando that shows he can still do it if he wants. Unfortunately that was the only time in years.

 

[Chaplin]

Penny is absolutely correct. Absolutely.

Joe Johnson is notorious for taking ill-advised shots at the wrong times. I don't know if it was a jab at Marbury, or just a generic set of statistics he was quoting--I just can't see Marbury not caring about winning, so for that, I have questions. But otherwise, he's absolutely correct.

Joe says he's not--it's coaching. Well, isn't what Hardaway saying a direct representation of little or no coaching? I think it is. And maybe he's smart enough not to go off on Frank Johnson. Politically, that's the smart thing to do.

It's hilarious that if Penny says something, guys like Chris Sanders comes on and makes fun of him. It's not like anyone else is saying anything. I for one get sick and tired of players going through the motions with "oh, we're in a slump, we just have to play through it", or "we just need to play better, we'll be all right".

They need a kick in the pants--everybody on this board KNOWS that. If you don't, then you are naive. Perhaps this is it. Penny IS a veteran, as much as you guys hate the guy.

But the fact is, he's absolutely correct. There is NO accountability for the young players, especially Joe Johnson, who IMO is swiftly playing himself out of a Phoenix uniform.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
I think it is funny coming from Penny who looks like he has no fire, focus or any type of winning attitude.

Penny Hardaway on the court looks so much like he doesn't care that you have to think he is just riding out his contract.

He makes one great play against Orlando that shows he can still do it if he wants. Unfortunately that was the only time in years.

You're full of it. Penny is easily our 3rd best player right now--he may even compete for 2nd best with Marbury, who is playing below his potential right now.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm

If the words really are from Hardaway, then he is clueless beyond belief. You don't criticize your teammates' effort when you are the worst defender on the team. You don't criticize their desire to win when you shy away from the ball in crunch time. And you certainly don't criticize their "me first" attitude when you whine every time you aren't in the starting lineup.

I can't believe I'm reading this. We have been noticing and complaining about how Penny is NEVER IN THE GAME AT CRUNCH TIME. How can he "shy" away from the ball when he's not even in the game!

Wait, you must be comparing him to Joe Johnson, who is the exact opposite--he LOVES the ball, and shoots it no matter what (and usually misses).

When did Hardaway complain about not being a starter this year? He never did--which was pointed out many times. Sure, he did it in the past--but to most people, the past doesn't matter anymore.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm


There are only a few athletes in all of professional sports that are that stupid. Hardaway can't really be one of them, can he?

You're not fooling anybody, you've already classified him as one.

 

[schutd]

I agree with the sentiments you drew from Hardaway, Chap, but I dont think he's smart enough to be that deep. i think he was just spouting off again, given the rare opportunity by the media to make his feelings known and he once again put his foot in his freaking mouth.

I agree, I think its a generic set of stats he threw out, and everyone here inferring it as a jab towards Marbury has gone off the dep end. Thats giving the guy WAY too much credit. He aint that smart to draw the connection, but at the same time, he aint so dumb as to blatantly call out the player that obviously everybody within the organization looks to for leadership amoung the players. He's just a dim wit, and speaks without thinking about the ramifications of airing personal feelings in the media. He's not saavy.

Elindholm, I dont necessarily think hes as dumb as you describe, but he certainly has providied us with enough of this tripe even since arriving in Pheonix that one could logically come to that conclusion. What a fool.

But equally foolish in my opinion are all the people wasting their days over analyzing the ramblings of a near washed up fomrer star, who now is the 5th opian AT BEST on his team. He's a non factor overall, and paying that kind of crap any mind is a waste of time.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Chaplin
You're full of it. Penny is easily our 3rd best player right now--he may even compete for 2nd best with Marbury, who is playing below his potential right now.

That may be true, but I find it a function of how poorly other people are playing than how well Hardaway is. He's n ot that good anymore. The fact that he is the third best payer currently is FAR more cause for conern to me than the fact that he says stupid **** all the time. I dont care about Hardaway, I care about the Suns. The only reason hes on the radar at all is becasue we HAVE to pull for him becasue of where our team is now. Thats bothersome to me.

Note Chap, I'm NOT taking a dig at your opinion. IM just running with it and ranting a bit on my own....

 

[jbeecham]

Originally posted by Chaplin
When did Hardaway complain about not being a starter this year? He never did--which was pointed out many times. Sure, he did it in the past--but to most people, the past doesn't matter anymore.

A few weeks ago Penny came out and said he could still be an All-star in the league, but that the team doesn't allow him to be one and makes him play a reserved role. Sounds a lot like complaining about not being a starter, not getting enough shots, etc.

 

[elindholm]

You're not fooling anybody, you've already classified him as one.

Chaplin, please read my entire post. I spent two paragraphs explaining that I don't think Hardaway is that stupid.

And no, I certainly am not comparing him to Joe Johnson. I agree with you that Johnson is probably playing himself right off the team. If Johnson said anything like what Hardaway is accused of saying, it would be just as bad, if not worse.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
You're not fooling anybody, you've already classified him as one.

Chaplin, please read my entire post. I spent two paragraphs explaining that I don't think Hardaway is that stupid.

I forgot, you're "smiley-impaired". Lighten up, huh?

And no, I certainly am not comparing him to Joe Johnson. I agree with you that Johnson is probably playing himself right off the team. If Johnson said anything like what Hardaway is accused of saying, it would be just as bad, if not worse.

I am confused about the italics thing--seems kinda strange for something in print, even if it is a longer quote.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by jbeecham
A few weeks ago Penny came out and said he could still be an All-star in the league, but that the team doesn't allow him to be one and makes him play a reserved role. Sounds a lot like complaining about not being a starter, not getting enough shots, etc.

Sounds a lot like? <sigh>

Yes, he did say he could still be an All-Star, but I thought that had to do with getting more minutes. And at the time, most on this board agreed with him!

 

[jbeecham]

I doubt Marbury would ever come out and say anything in the media like this, but I'd like to see him say that the team would be a lot better off if the veteran players cared more about the team winning than the money they were making. If Tom & Penny had opted-out of their ridiculous contracts then the team would be in a much better situation to bring in better talent. Especially since these two missed a large portion of their contracts with injuries.

Marbury wouldn't say something like that though and if he did it would be in a team meeting right to the players face.

The way I see it, there's only 3 players that Penny could be talking about.........Marbury, Marion or Amare. These are the only young guys that could be all-stars this season. All of them have taken ill-advised shots. So has Penny Hardaway and everyone else on the team. But for him to question players desire to win(especially Marbury, Marion & Amare) is crazy. For him to not care if he offends his teammates is just stupid. For him to think he's helping the team by making these remarks is even more stupid. Most of all, for him to make these comments like he is free of making mistakes and poor choices on the court is the most stupid thing of all.