Pete Carroll/Seahawks Love-Fest...

[NeverSayDieFan]

Ok! I'll be the 1st to admit that Seattle had a great 3-day draft/pick-ups, etc. ...And the networks kept talking it up about Pete Carroll's brilliance, shrewdness, etc. But, wasn't it just 2/3 weeks back or so that Carroll was saying that he thought Matt was going to be a "star" in this league?? Isn't it interesting how the media puts a completely different spin on this. Well, the Cardinals are going to suck because Matt Leinart sucks! Apparently, Pete Carroll is ONLY brilliant & shrewd in his opinions of the Seahwaks but NOT when it comes to the Cardinals. Show 'em the error of their ways, Matt. GO CARDS!

 

[Krangodnzr]

Meh, they still have GAPING holes on their roster.

To draft a safety high when you have next to no passrushers is mystifying. I wager Seattle will have less than 30 sacks next year, which will nearly guarantee a losing season. They also badly need a top receiver and Houshmanzadeh, Tate, and Branch are all #2's, #3s, or #4.

Safety is a luxury position that has become the next glamor position because of Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu. NEWS FLASH SEATTLE: Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu aren't even the most valuable players on their own teams! It's much more essential to have good cornerbacks and defensive ends/rushbackers than it is to have good safeties.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

it's all part of the build and S is a very, very important position in this defense

going into the draft seattle had 2 safeties on their roster - this was definitely a position of need and if you can get one of the top guys at #14 then you do it

thing is, there were many areas that needed improvement and after the 3 days they hit on a lot

as for carroll - here are his comments immediately following the draft

"I wish we could've found a pass rusher," the Seattle Seahawks coach said after his first draft since returning to the NFL. "But it worked out well."

you can't build a team in one season and you can't force the board if it just isn't there - they've tried that at DE a lot (lamar king, daryl tapp, anton palepoi and to this point lawrence jackson)

if the moves they made for their secondary pan out they can really bolster their pass rush as the main focus going forward

They needed help on the OL - signing ben hamilton to LG and drafting Okung for LT should bolster up that side.

They needed help in the secondary - it was very thin and not very good - adding thomas, thurmond and chancellor helps

They needed help at RB - adding white and washington helps and I still really like forsett as a guy who can fill a nice role in a multiback committee

They needed help on special teams and the return game - they've made moves to bring in special teams aces and a guy like tate (and washington as well) will help here

Vickerson will be a good rotation DT and with the moves they've made on the interior DL hopefully it means the end of the Craig Terrill era

LB should be pretty solid if healthy as the 1st 4 of lofa, curry, hill and hawthorne isn't bad

The offense looks like they are going to run a lot of 2 TE sets - they signed a FA to pair with carlson and adding mccoy should help as well

All in all I think it was pretty successful and some good building blocks put in place

Tate while not a #1 threat, does have playmaker ability which is needed

Going forward I still think they could use a #1 WR, they need a good pass rushing DE, they need help at DT, they have room to improve the OL (hamilton is a stop gap and the C/RG situation can be improved), the secondary will need better depth and the QB situation will be a question mark

So next year I expect them to grab WR/DE/DT as the big needs and then let the rest play out for the other positions

 

[PJ1]

Seattle had a fantastic 3 days. Not sure how anyone could say otherwise. The 2 first rounders doesn't hurt but I really like the moves they made.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

heh - i just heard on the Scott Van Pelt show (don't even know why I was listening to this) - one of their experts blasted seattle for giving up a 4th rounder for lendale white

went on a nice tirade of if he could of been had for less, maybe they could of had him for a 5th rounder .... blah, blah, blah

would of been nice if someone corrected him and let him know that seattle didn't out right lose a 4th round pick .... they slid down 7 positions in the 4th and 9 positions in the 6th and got white & vickerson

the risk/reward on this move is pretty slanted when you look at the opportunity cost lost in this move (negligible at best)

even if you don't think they will have a great impact - it really didn't cost much of anything .... thurmond is a good pick and a place of need ..... looking at the gap the only player I could of seen them taking is Wooton

in the 6th they grabbed McCoy and i don't see anyone between 176 and 185 that i'm upset seattle lost out on

 

[Cardiac]

Seattle had a fantastic 3 days. Not sure how anyone could say otherwise. The 2 first rounders doesn't hurt but I really like the moves they made.

Yep. I expected them to improve since they had two 1st rd picks but the other moves they made were outstanding. Leon Washington was one of the best returners and situational backs in the league. I thought we dodged a bullet when they didn't take Spiller.....Washington is at least as good. Now if his injury doesn't fully heal then it changes my mind.

 

[FrustratedFan04]

Seattle had a fantastic 3 days. Not sure how anyone could say otherwise. The 2 first rounders doesn't hurt but I really like the moves they made.

Well that's only the case on paper. Busts from the draft are legion in the NFL. And as far as the two RB's they traded for, neither has lived up to expectations and they were traded for those very reasons.

The only vision of the draft that's pristine and 20-20 is that in the rearview mirror.

I can't say who did, or did not, have a good draft until after the season.

 

[Cardiac]

Well that's only the case on paper. Busts from the draft are legion in the NFL. And as far as the two RB's they traded for, neither has lived up to expectations and they were traded for those very reasons.
The only vision of the draft that's pristine and 20-20 is that in the rearview mirror.

I can't say who did, or did not, have a good draft until after the season.

I'm not a big fan of Lendale but how many other backs in the league beat our Chris Johnson for playing time? You are completely wrong about Washington. He is electric and better than Sproles IMO. He suffered a severe leg injury last year and was having contract squabbles with the Jets.

Every teams draft is graded "on paper". I like the Cards draft "on paper" and the Jets earned high marks "on paper" as well.

 

[Southpaw]

Tweet of the Week III


"LenDale White traded for a ham sandwich, which he ate.''


-- @adbrandt, former NFL executive Andrew Brandt, now of National Football Post, after Seattle acquired the disappointing (and sometimes overweight) White and defensive lineman Kevin Vickerson simply for swapping draft spots in the fourth and sixth rounds Saturday.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/04/25/draft/2.html#ixzz0mEMSGebR

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Seattle did have a nice draft and i like the Lendale and Leon additions but they still are a long ways away. They have no WR's, no reliable QB, no pass rush,no run defense, and one CB. It's hard to say whether they had a coaching upgrade but since Mora was so bad you have to think the coaching is at least a little bit better.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

washington was traded because he broke his leg, has one year in the contract and couldn't work out an extension with the jets

not sure what expectations there are for the 117th player drafted - the guy averages 25 yards per kick return and has 4 TDs, gets about 10 yards per punt return, throws in 50 total yards per game on 9 touches ...... he's also had some very big games when asked to shoulder the load

i'm not a big lendale white fan (more attitude than anything), but the guy was a 2nd rounder who in his 2nd year ran in 15 TDs and in his 3rd year ran in 7 more to go with 1100 yards .... last year he only touched the ball 61 times because of this chris johnson fellow who knocked down over 2000 yards

i don't think his on the field was the issue - it was his personality combined with being expendable due to CJ

now I don't think they are all pro players or even top tier ..... both have their question marks and are going into the last year of their deals - this is what made them expendable, not on the field performance

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Seattle did have a nice draft and i like the Lendale and Leon additions but they still are a long ways away. They have no WR's, no reliable QB, no pass rush,no run defense, and one CB. It's hard to say whether they had a coaching upgrade but since Mora was so bad you have to think the coaching is at least a little bit better.

definite coaching upgrade - i'm still skeptical on carroll, but mora was terrible and completely lost that team

Greg Knapp was horrible as OC last year and he's gone

They have also added Alex Gibbs as OL coach, Ken Norton Jr as LB coach and have brought in a new strength & conditioning program ..... i think all 3 of these are clear improvements from that side of things

also, for as quiet as he was last year (and he's clearly not a true #1 WR) TJ still caught 79 balls last year and if the OL shows even remotely competant it should free up john carlson to actually leave the line

there is definitely a long way to go and paper is just that and it's all there is until these guys start playing

but on the surface it looks like a big step in the right direction - i think the team will definitely be more competative than they were last year (seeing them pretty much quit against TB with a rookie QB at home last year was not fun) and I think they can probably get a solid 7 wins and scare a couple teams as well

 

[Krangodnzr]

Oh I love all the moves Seattle made, and they picked up a lot of quality players.

However, Pass rusher is 10x more important than safety. Address your primary needs (LT and pass rusher first). If I were a fan, I would be much happier with Okung and Derrick Morgan than Okung and Thomas. Safety is just NOT that important IMO. A good defensive end improves more phases of defense than a safety, and has a higher play to play impact.

Its like having the chance to draft a quality LT or the chance to address OG, and deciding to take the guard. Most teams address safety AFTER round 1; it's the same with tight end, guard, LB, FB and a few other positions. Diminishing returns basically.

That's really my only criticism of the Seattle draft, and for me, if Derrick Morgan or one of the other pass rushers becomes a stud, then Seattle really screwed the pooch on a high pick. I mean, is there really an appreciable difference between Kerry Rhodes (4th rounder) versus Kenny Philips (Giants 1st rounder) to warrant burning a 1st rounder?

 

[Krangodnzr]

I still see a lot of losses for Seattle this year, it's going to take awhile for the Seahawks to be competitive. The team basically went 4 drafts without adding any real talent.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

definite coaching upgrade - i'm still skeptical on carroll, but mora was terrible and completely lost that team

Greg Knapp was horrible as OC last year and he's gone

They have also added Alex Gibbs as OL coach, Ken Norton Jr as LB coach and have brought in a new strength & conditioning program ..... i think all 3 of these are clear improvements from that side of things

also, for as quiet as he was last year (and he's clearly not a true #1 WR) TJ still caught 79 balls last year and if the OL shows even remotely competant it should free up john carlson to actually leave the line

there is definitely a long way to go and paper is just that and it's all there is until these guys start playing

but on the surface it looks like a big step in the right direction - i think the team will definitely be more competative than they were last year (seeing them pretty much quit against TB with a rookie QB at home last year was not fun) and I think they can probably get a solid 7 wins and scare a couple teams as well

I agree Carlson is their best offensive player if they are able to utilize him. I'm looking forward to making my first trip ever out to Seattle in October. Hopefully, Mora's coaching hasn't worn of by then.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I agree Carlson is their best offensive player if they are able to utilize him. I'm looking forward to making my first trip ever out to Seattle in October. Hopefully, Mora's coaching hasn't worn of by then.

I live in the Ft. Lewis area; be prepared for craptastic traffic and the most rotund, flannel shirt wearing women you'll ever see in your life.

 

[Catfish]

Good to hear from you Osprey-----You have always come here with solid football knowlege and respect for our board.

Your insight into the Hawks trevails and triumphs during the draft is very helpful. It is so tiring to hear the talking heads, (especially those from the East-coast), spout about stuff they don't have a clue about. Thanks for your update on what is going on in the Great Pacific NorthWest. I always welcome and appreciate your input to our board.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

yes - there is a big difference between rhodes and phillips

there is a bigger difference between them and guys like ed reed, troy p and bob sanders

a lot of it comes to style - seattle was ready to trade down, but thought enough of this guy to grab him

personally I didn't see any true fire pass rushing DEs this year - i really don't think morgan is anything special

Brandon Graham wouldn't really fit the seattle scheme from what I know, pierre-paul is a huge risk/reward guy, morgan i'm just not a big fan of - he's got a lot of effort but he was often hard to find against some of the better teams they played .... the guy I liked the most in the 1st round is the guy who went last and that is jerry hughes - he wont be an everydown player and will be a rotational situational threat, but I think he can cause some havoc

i'd say this is the worst DE class since 2005

I would agree that they are more important - but if you need both and can get a dynamic prospect that is ranked near the top of a good draft class it's better than getting a guy who projects decently at the top of a poorer draft class

get what you can get - this isn't a 1 year rebuild

they have 3 new adds to the secondary - let them mesh

give Jackson one more year to show what he has (if anything) at the DE and let pete look for his "elephant" rusher this year

then spend the next calendar year looking for the best pass rushers you can get

i know the staff values them - but sometimes you have to play the hand your dealt

 

[MigratingOsprey]

Good to hear from you Osprey-----You have always come here with solid football knowlege and respect for our board.

Your insight into the Hawks trevails and triumphs during the draft is very helpful. It is so tiring to hear the talking heads, (especially those from the East-coast), spout about stuff they don't have a clue about. Thanks for your update on what is going on in the Great Pacific NorthWest. I always welcome and appreciate your input to our board.

heh - i liked it when rich eisen was talking about the eagles and mentioning how they didn't have a FB that could factor into the offense - he even threw in a "no offense to the pro bowler weaver, but he's known for his blocking more than anything"

sure he is................

it's amazing just how much they miss for how much they get paid and how so few of them want to correct each other

 

[MigratingOsprey]

I agree Carlson is their best offensive player if they are able to utilize him. I'm looking forward to making my first trip ever out to Seattle in October. Hopefully, Mora's coaching hasn't worn of by then.

I like the first 3 picks from last year (curry, unger, butler) .... it is amazing how many picks they've burned off from before that

since 2000 they have drafted 84 players, only 24 are still on the roster (10 of which project to be starters)

going back to 1999 when MH took Lamar King with his 1st #1 draft pick seattle has had zero luck selecting DEs (and DL in general)

Brandon Mebane has probably been the best of the bunch and sadly Craig Terrill 2nd best

I'm of course jealous about your seattle travels - i haven't been up for a game in a couple of years

Qwest is a great venue to see a game - tailgating isn't the best, but there are some fun things to do around game day ..... let me know if you have any questions about visiting the city or game day decisions

i think moras coaching has already started to wear off - this last OTA was more engaging than even the games were last year and the fans should still be excited

the most optimistic hawk fans are only projecting 9 wins .... most of us are in the 6-7 games range

 

[Krangodnzr]

yes - there is a big difference between rhodes and phillips

there is a bigger difference between them and guys like ed reed, troy p and bob sanders

a lot of it comes to style - seattle was ready to trade down, but thought enough of this guy to grab him

personally I didn't see any true fire pass rushing DEs this year - i really don't think morgan is anything special

Brandon Graham wouldn't really fit the seattle scheme from what I know, pierre-paul is a huge risk/reward guy, morgan i'm just not a big fan of - he's got a lot of effort but he was often hard to find against some of the better teams they played .... the guy I liked the most in the 1st round is the guy who went last and that is jerry hughes - he wont be an everydown player and will be a rotational situational threat, but I think he can cause some havoc

i'd say this is the worst DE class since 2005

I would agree that they are more important - but if you need both and can get a dynamic prospect that is ranked near the top of a good draft class it's better than getting a guy who projects decently at the top of a poorer draft class

get what you can get - this isn't a 1 year rebuild

they have 3 new adds to the secondary - let them mesh

give Jackson one more year to show what he has (if anything) at the DE and let pete look for his "elephant" rusher this year

then spend the next calendar year looking for the best pass rushers you can get

i know the staff values them - but sometimes you have to play the hand your dealt

LOL are you serious? Kerry Rhodes has been an All Pro, while Kenny Philips HAS NOT. Kerry Rhodes has also played at that level for YEARS while Kenny Philips has essentially had 1 good season.

Brian Dawkins, Kerry Rhodes, Adrian Wilson, Nick Collins, Bob Sanders, I mean do I need to really list all the good, non-1st round safeties? It's just a terrible value for the first round, and pretty much all the evidence points to that. It's one of the easiest positions to draft after the first round, and the Seahawks could of grabbed a player that would produce a much higher impact with that pick. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Like I said before, I seriously doubt Seattle will have more than 30 sacks, which means the defense is likely going to be terrible. And I know that none of the pass rushers would likely improve this substantially but a year from now Seattle will still likely be in the same predicament.

I also hated the Golden Tate pick, I doubt he ever amounts to much, he's not incredibly fast and doesn't have great size. IMO he'll likely be a #3 receiver in the NFL.

 

[MigratingOsprey]

I also hated the Golden Tate pick, I doubt he ever amounts to much, he's not incredibly fast and doesn't have great size. IMO he'll likely be a #3 receiver in the NFL.

That's what he was drafted for - to be a #3 receiver, a guy who can can be physical, block, return kicks and when he gets the ball in space make some things happen

LOL are you serious? Kerry Rhodes has been an All Pro, while Kenny Philips HAS NOT. Kerry Rhodes has also played at that level for YEARS while Kenny Philips has essentially had 1 good season.

Brian Dawkins, Kerry Rhodes, Adrian Wilson, Nick Collins, Bob Sanders, I mean do I need to really list all the good, non-1st round safeties? It's just a terrible value for the first round, and pretty much all the evidence points to that. It's one of the easiest positions to draft after the first round, and the Seahawks could of grabbed a player that would produce a much higher impact with that pick. I guess we'll agree to disagree.

Like I said before, I seriously doubt Seattle will have more than 30 sacks, which means the defense is likely going to be terrible. And I know that none of the pass rushers would likely improve this substantially but a year from now Seattle will still likely be in the same predicament.

I also hated the Golden Tate pick, I doubt he ever amounts to much, he's not incredibly fast and doesn't have great size. IMO he'll likely be a #3 receiver in the NFL.

LOL are you serious? Kerry Rhodes has been an All Pro, while Kenny Philips HAS NOT. Kerry Rhodes has also played at that level for YEARS while Kenny Philips has essentially had 1 good season.

Phillips is probably not going to fulfil his potential due to injuries, which need to be considered

But as far as playing ability i'd take what phillips has to offer as being much greater

You can say he's only had one good season - but he's been in the league for 2 - as a rookie he started 3 games (played in all 16 as a split time player) - had 67 tackles, 5 passes defensed and an Int

last year he was off to a good start with 9 tackles and 2 picks before getting injured

rhodes had a big 2006, but I think the ceiling for phillips was a lot higher

then again, I am a hurricanes fan so I will admit severe bias here ...... phillips isn't ed reed (who I was upset seattle passed on the year he came out), but he has the talent to be an elite player

I think he was on that path, but will probably never reach it now

with that said, I wouldn't put either of them as having the impact of guys like reed (24th pick), polamalu (16th pick) and sanders (44th pick)

adrian wilson was a high 3rd rounder, brian dawkins a 2nd rounder, michael griffin a 1st rounder, nick collins a 2nd rounder, darren sharper 2nd round

most of the impact safeties are drafted in the first 2 rounds

i'm not saying rhodes is bad - but I wouldn't have him in the top 20 safeties in the league and i definitely think there is a big difference between him and the guys near the top of the list

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I live in the Ft. Lewis area; be prepared for craptastic traffic and the most rotund, flannel shirt wearing women you'll ever see in your life.

Can't be worse than Cleveland. I've been going to White Sox games up there for years and have yet to see an attarctive woman. Traffic shouldn't be too bad because we're staying at the hotel right by the stadium, Silvercloud hotel maybe ????

 

[MigratingOsprey]

nice hotel - it will be real easy to get around most of the downtown area from there as well

whenever I've gone to games I usually stay somewhere near downtown and grab a city bus or cab there and just walk back to the hotel

 

[football karma]

man -- after all the offseason love Denny's Cardinals would get, and then promptly follow it up with a 5 win season -- I pay no attention to stuff like that

the only thing we know about pre-season predictions is that they are likely wrong