Phxsuns.net Rumor

[Chaplin]

You all know how much I hate trade speculation, but this was pulled from a Warriors board and posted on phxsuns.net:

I just pulled this from the Warriors Forum this morning:

(http://forums.warriorsworld.net/main/msgs/477148.phtml)

"Jason,

The Warriors are not interested in Kurt Thomas unless they can unload Erick Dampier, and the Knicks simply don't have anyone in the backcourt whom the Warriors want. However, there's been some talk about Nick Van Exel and Evan Eschmeyer going to Phoenix for Anfernee Hardaway and Casey Jacobsen. The Suns believe that they can contend if they can add Van Exel's scoring punch in the playoffs.

xxxxxx"

Wow... is this a sick deal? Penny played pretty well down the stretch last year. He has 2 years beyond this year left on his contract, same as Van Exel. He can play the point and plug the hole, while perhaps not with as big ego to take up all the minutes Van Exel would have, given Claxton more chance to play. Jacobsen is a capable guard providing anything we'd have lost by dealing Welsch.

PHOENIX:
SF Marion, Cabarkapa
PF Amare, Outlaw
C Tsakalidis, Voskhul, Eschmeyer
PG Marbury, Barbosa
SG Van Exel, Johnson
Comment: If Johnson's up to it, he'll start. Marbury and Van Exel will be utterly unstoppable. Add to that Marion and Amare, and you pretty much have a younger version of Dallas with more rebounding and inside scoring provided by Amare/Marion. Marbury > Nash just, Van Exel was a better player in the playoffs than Finley, Marion is better than Jamison, and Amare has more inside power than Nowitzki. Phoenix is scary.

WARRIORS:
SF Dunleavy, Pietrus
PF Murphy, Robinson, Jones
C Damp, Foyle
PG Hardaway, Claxton, Johnson
SG JRich, Cheaney, Jacobsen
Comment: Hardaway if anything is a more willing passer than Van Exel. There's now a lot of backcourt depth and who knows what Jacobsen can become. Penny's not the world's most pleasant character and has a big contract, but it's either Nick creating trouble, or Penny with a similar contract and same length but he'll actually play, and he won't mind the minutes here that he was losing in Phoenix. At least you know that Penny can create and score and Jacobsen is another gunner, while Charlie Ward really is a ticket to the top end of the NBA lottery.

-----------------------

Golden State trades: PG Nick Van Exel (12.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 27.8 minutes)
C Evan Eschmeyer (1.0 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 7.9 minutes)
Golden State receives: SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.7 minutes)
SG Casey Jacobsen (5.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 15.9 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +2.2 ppg, +1.0 rpg, and +0.3 apg.

Phoenix trades: SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.7 minutes)
SG Casey Jacobsen (5.1 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg in 15.9 minutes)
Phoenix receives: PG Nick Van Exel (12.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 73 games)
C Evan Eschmeyer (1.0 ppg, 1.7 rpg, 0.4 apg in 17 games)
Change in team outlook: -2.2 ppg, -1.0 rpg, and -0.3 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

Due to Golden State and Phoenix being over the cap, the 15% trade rule is invoked. Golden State and Phoenix had to be no more than 115% plus 0,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

 

[slinslin]

I would rather trade Van Exel for Ward and Thomas if I was the Suns.

Or Penny for a combination of Dampier and throw-ins.

 

[Joe Mama]

For the record I don't think there's any merit to this rumor. It would be interesting, but Nick Van Exel seems like the kind of locker room presence to Colangelos would like to avoid. Also, he and Marbury like to dominate the ball. I'm not sure they would work well together on the court at the same time, and they would be pretty bad defensively.

I also wonder if the Colangelos still hold any animosity towards Nick Van Exel for his part in the Antonio McDyess defection. I know I still do.

That said, it is an interesting idea. The Phoenix Suns would have been a much better team last season with some consistent scoring off the bench. Nick Van Exel could definitely provide that.

Joe Mama

 

[SirStefan32]

Marbury/ Van Exel backcourt is a wet dream of every team in the NBA. Marbury/Ven Exel/ Marion/ Stoedemire+ insert a Center is a heck of a lineup.

The question, of course is would Nick be happy?
He was the 6th man in Dallas, and he never made a huge deal about it, so I think he would be happy.
I'd rather have a couple of role players than nother star in Van Exel, but it would be interesting to see Nick in the Suns uniform.


Having said all that, I don't think it's going to happen.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by Joe Mama
For the record I don't think there's any merit to this rumor. It would be interesting, but Nick Van Exel seems like the kind of locker room presence to Colangelos would like to avoid. Also, he and Marbury like to dominate the ball. I'm not sure they would work well together on the court at the same time, and they would be pretty bad defensively.

Joe Mama

Did he ever cause any locker room problems in Dallas? Or even in Denver? I think he has a volatile attitude, but I never heard of him actually causing problems with his teammates.

 

[SweetD]

I would would like this deal but Iwould rather they throw in a draft pick or a Center in the deal.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Did he ever cause any locker room problems in Dallas? Or even in Denver? I think he has a volatile attitude, but I never heard of him actually causing problems with his teammates.

Van Exel was a problem in the Denver lockerroom. He all but led the revolt against Issel when the team walked out on practice. He's a sh*thead. Always has been.

 

[hcsilla]

Both Van Exel's super attitude and Eschmeyer's stupid contract in PHO?
No, thanks.

BTW, it's interesting that every 2nd NBA fan thinks that Penny is able to play full-time PG.
Actually he is not, IMO.
Since he is not why would GSW want a 32 year old SG with max. contract?
To take away PT from Richardson and Pietrus?

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
Van Exel was a problem in the Denver lockerroom. He all but led the revolt against Issel when the team walked out on practice. He's a sh*thead. Always has been.

In his defense, though, Dan Issel was a horrible coach.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Chaplin
In his defense, though, Dan Issel was a horrible coach.

You can defend a Van Exel led player revolt because they played for a horrible coach? Outrageous. There is NO defense for what he/ the rest of the team did.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
You can defend a Van Exel led player revolt because they played for a horrible coach? Outrageous. There is NO defense for what he/ the rest of the team did.

It's not like he got into a fistfight with a teammate, is it? He took action against a coach he felt wasn't very good--and his teammates agreed. Perhaps he went about it the wrong way, but that doesn't make him a locker room cancer. He had no problems with Don Nelson did he??

 

[Tank]

Since this thread came up with trade ideas, and I'm not the one who started this, I'll throw this one out. What do ya'll think?


Phoenix trades: PF Bo Outlaw (4.7 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.4 apg in 22.5 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.7 minutes)
Phoenix receives: C Erick Dampier (8.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.1 minutes)
SF Clarence Weatherspoon (6.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.6 minutes)
PG Charlie Ward (7.2 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 22.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +6.7 ppg, +7.8 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

Golden State trades: C Erick Dampier (8.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.1 minutes)
PG Nick Van Exel (12.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 27.8 minutes)
Golden State receives: SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 58 games)
C Kurt Thomas (14.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 81 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.9 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

New York trades: SF Clarence Weatherspoon (6.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.6 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (14.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.8 minutes)
PG Charlie Ward (7.2 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 22.2 minutes)
New York receives: PF Bo Outlaw (4.7 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.4 apg in 80 games)
PG Nick Van Exel (12.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 73 games)
Change in team outlook: -10.6 ppg, -10.7 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Chaplin
It's not like he got into a fistfight with a teammate, is it? He took action against a coach he felt wasn't very good--and his teammates agreed. Perhaps he went about it the wrong way, but that doesn't make him a locker room cancer. He had no problems with Don Nelson did he??

Really? REALLY?!?!?! Im not freaking out here, Im just totally surprised that youd defend him in this. Every player that agreed with him and he should have been suspended without pay by the team, and the team should have forfeited its games. these players are under contract. They cant just walk out cause they dont like the coach. Remember WHY they walked out? Cause they sucked it up on the road one night, got back to Denver at 4:30am and instead of giving them a day off, coach called practice. WAAAAAAAH. What a bunch of babies.

I don't know if Nick Van Exel was a problem in Dallas. I didnt follow them. But it would make sesne that he wasnt. He was traded to a team that was winning and he didnt have to be the man on. Everytime he has had to be the man, he's folded. Hes cried, and begged for trades, he's lambasted the organization. Hes the dictionary definition of the word cancer, and even if he's grown up and doesnt behave that way now, I for one cant forget his cry baby crap.

It'll be interesting to see, assuming he stays in GS, how he performs. My guess? He's crying by the all star break. He simply cant handle the burden of being the go to guy on an under .500 team.

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by Tank
Since this thread came up with trade ideas, and I'm not the one who started this, I'll throw this one out. What do ya'll think?


Phoenix trades: PF Bo Outlaw (4.7 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.4 apg in 22.5 minutes)
SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 30.7 minutes)
Phoenix receives: C Erick Dampier (8.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.1 minutes)
SF Clarence Weatherspoon (6.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.6 minutes)
PG Charlie Ward (7.2 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 22.2 minutes)
Change in team outlook: +6.7 ppg, +7.8 rpg, and +0.8 apg.

Golden State trades: C Erick Dampier (8.2 ppg, 6.6 rpg, 0.7 apg in 24.1 minutes)
PG Nick Van Exel (12.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 27.8 minutes)
Golden State receives: SG Anfernee Hardaway (10.6 ppg, 4.5 rpg, 4.0 apg in 58 games)
C Kurt Thomas (14.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 81 games)
Change in team outlook: +3.9 ppg, +2.9 rpg, and +1.0 apg.

New York trades: SF Clarence Weatherspoon (6.6 ppg, 7.6 rpg, 0.9 apg in 25.6 minutes)
C Kurt Thomas (14.0 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 2.0 apg in 31.8 minutes)
PG Charlie Ward (7.2 ppg, 2.7 rpg, 4.6 apg in 22.2 minutes)
New York receives: PF Bo Outlaw (4.7 ppg, 4.6 rpg, 1.4 apg in 80 games)
PG Nick Van Exel (12.5 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 4.3 apg in 73 games)
Change in team outlook: -10.6 ppg, -10.7 rpg, and -1.8 apg.

TRADE ACCEPTED

I would do this deal at a heartbeat but again I don't see why would GSW trade for Penny.

 

[Joe Mama]

Dan Issel was a horrible coach and an even worse GM. He is the one who got Denver in salary cap trouble by overpaying a bunch of guys including Nick Van Exel. Still, it doesn't excuse the player revolt.

Nick may not have caused any problems in Dallas, but he sure did in Denver.

Joe Mama

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by schutd
Really? REALLY?!?!?! Im not freaking out here, Im just totally surprised that youd defend him in this. Every player that agreed with him and he should have been suspended without pay by the team, and the team should have forfeited its games. these players are under contract. They cant just walk out cause they dont like the coach. Remember WHY they walked out? Cause they sucked it up on the road one night, got back to Denver at 4:30am and instead of giving them a day off, coach called practice. WAAAAAAAH. What a bunch of babies.

I don't know if Nick Van Exel was a problem in Dallas. I didnt follow them. But it would make sesne that he wasnt. He was traded to a team that was winning and he didnt have to be the man on. Everytime he has had to be the man, he's folded. Hes cried, and begged for trades, he's lambasted the organization. Hes the dictionary definition of the word cancer, and even if he's grown up and doesnt behave that way now, I for one cant forget his cry baby crap.

It'll be interesting to see, assuming he stays in GS, how he performs. My guess? He's crying by the all star break. He simply cant handle the burden of being the go to guy on an under .500 team.

So who cares then?
Phoenix is not a .500 team, and he is not going to be "the" man as long as Marbury, Stoudemire and even Marion are on the team.
I don't understand what the big deal is.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by SirStefan32
So who cares then?
Phoenix is not a .500 team, and he is not going to be "the" man as long as Marbury, Stoudemire and even Marion are on the team.
I don't understand what the big deal is.

Exactly. I'm not exactly all for the trade, I just thought it was an interesting idea.

At the time, NVE was the undisputed leader of the Nuggets, and perhaps he isn't fit for that type of role. In GS, he would have to be that leader, in Phx (and before in Dallas), he wouldn't. There's a big difference.

But there's no need for you to cry so much about this, Dave. It's probably a bullcrap rumor. I jsut can't believe you are crying about it so much.

 

[schutd]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Exactly. I'm not exactly all for the trade, I just thought it was an interesting idea.

At the time, NVE was the undisputed leader of the Nuggets, and perhaps he isn't fit for that type of role. In GS, he would have to be that leader, in Phx (and before in Dallas), he wouldn't. There's a big difference.

But there's no need for you to cry so much about this, Dave. It's probably a bullcrap rumor. I jsut can't believe you are crying about it so much.

Who's crying? Im stating my opinion. You know, its responses like that that make you look like a pompous jerk sometimes. I even went so far as to TELL YOU I wasn't freaking out, becasue I KNEW that you'd assume I was. ANytime someone takes issue with your opinion you assume that they are out of their minds or are "crying" over something thats not a big deal, or whatever. Well, youre wrong. IM not crying at all. Im expressing my opinion. Nothing more.

I would have a hard time rooting for the SUns if Nick Nan Exel was a part of the team. He's a pooze and I wouldn't want our organization in bed with a boig baby like him.

It has nothing to do with his skills as a player, and I'm not an idiot. I understand that his role here would more akin to the one he played in Dallas. But YOU brought up the argument that he wasn't a cancer, and I countered with proof that he is, and all of a sudden the topic changes to "Well I dont see the big deal...."

NVE should rot in GS. Or better yet, he should step the hell up and lead that team out of the dark. I dont for a second think he has the stones to do it. And someone like that, I dont want on my team, even if he doesnt need to lead here.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
Who's crying? Im stating my opinion. You know, its responses like that that make you look like a pompous jerk sometimes. I even went so far as to TELL YOU I wasn't freaking out, becasue I KNEW that you'd assume I was. ANytime someone takes issue with your opinion you assume that they are out of their minds or are "crying" over something thats not a big deal, or whatever. Well, youre wrong. IM not crying at all. Im expressing my opinion. Nothing more.

Jesus, who is the one making the big deal? Honestly, you can't have a simple conversation because you take things so personally. I see your opinion, I told you mine, you decided to demean it by calling me "outrageous", but I didn't take it personally. It's not a big deal--it's just a trade rumor. And THEN you come out and start calling me names. Outrageous!

 

[schutd]

You spin things well, dude. Why does eveyone here feel the need to look back and find a place to assess blame? So youve traced this little tete au tete back to the word "outrageous". How horrible of me.

You accused me of crying about it. You accused me of making a big deal out of it. This board has the same amount of importance in my life and the pebble in my shoe does. I come here to discuss things, read news, and share opinions. It means nothing more. So somehow Im now making a big deal of something? I simply refuted an assertation by you, and once again, you have deflected that opinion by accusing me of going off the deep end or something.

You said you didnt remember NVE being a troublemaker in Denver. I told you that he was exactly that. I guess you could have said "Oh yeah, I forgot about that." but instead you went with the "Well, in his defense, Issel was a bad coach." What? So I just wanted to probe further and see if you really felt his actions were justifiable and or excuseable. You then changed the subject to, "Well its no big deal, casue he wouldnt have to play that role in Phoenix." I guess you could of said, "You know, I cant for one second condone what NVE did in Denver, but maybe he's matured beyond that, and maybe we could offer him a playing situation where he wouldnt have to carry the burden of being the main guy, so I'd be interested in the possibility of acquiring him." Instead, you oh so elloquently asked me why I was "crying" about it.

Again, I say this wiht a level head, and with no excessive emotion involved. Responses like that make you come accross like a pompous jerk. DO with this as you see fit. However I already know what the answer will be. You'll do nothing about it, Becasue even though we've ended up down this road over and over and over again, you never change. Ive seen you get into it with just about everyone on this board at one time or another and instead of adressing things, you get defensive, call people stupid little names and then flip it, by saying how everyone's coming down on you. Im not coming down on you. I dont care enough about you to.

I simple pointed out a fact about NVE that you forgot and now its become some personal mish mash of crap. Im done with it. You should be to, and now we can go back to playing nice.

 

[fordronken]

I don't mean to get in the way of this little scuffle, but one thing I've learned is that when someone starts writing words all in capital letters, they're getting melodramatic.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by Chaplin
Exactly. I'm not exactly all for the trade, I just thought it was an interesting idea.

At the time, NVE was the undisputed leader of the Nuggets, and perhaps he isn't fit for that type of role. In GS, he would have to be that leader, in Phx (and before in Dallas), he wouldn't. There's a big difference.

But there's no need for you to cry so much about this, Dave. It's probably a bullcrap rumor. I jsut can't believe you are crying about it so much.

Chap, here's the problem. Schudt showed you why he thinks Nick Van Exel is a locker room cancer. Even said, "I'm not freaking out here," and that he was just surprised you had no problem with Nick Van Exel's actions in Denver. He stated his opinion. It was a strong one. But then you have to turn things personal by asking him why he is crying about it.

I thought it was pretty common knowledge that Nick Van Exel has a volatile personality. Penny Hardaway hasn't exactly been a peacemaker the entire time he's been here in Phoenix, but he's doing well now. I'm not sure the Colangelos would want to disrupt that. You really have to wonder if Nick Van Exel and Marbury would have trouble coexisting.

I've always said there is only one player in the NBA I could not hear for in a Phoenix Suns' uniform. That is Karl Malone. I'm not sure it's a great idea, but I would definitely hear for Nick Van Exel if he played for the Suns.

Joe Mama

 

[Chaplin]

Well, there's a surprise. Joe, this is your MO to gang up on me. I'm not sure why. "Really?? REALLY???" What is that? He's not freaking out? I believe that, I never said he was, but he is objecting strongly to an opinion that I have attempted to explain. Instead, he decides to go off and start lecturing me about how I'm a jerk, etc. etc. Funny how you tolerate that, but not a word like "crying".

I apologize for using it, if that's what you want Joe. Perhaps it was a little too strong (although that is debatable--it's only a freaking word). If you (or Dave) can't accept that, well, then I don't know what to tell ya. The whole thing is moot anyway.

I like Dave--always have, that's why I can't understand why he constantly has to complain that I'm being a jerk to him. It's just a message board and there was no real animosity until he decided to dispute my opinion--which shouldn't have any animosity in the first place, right?

It all depends on how you look at it. When NVE organized that walkout, he wasn't by himself. He had the entire team behind him. I don't know about you, but that isn't cancer IMO--that's leadership. Yes, he probably shouldn't have taken that particular route to achieve whatever goal he had, but the fact of the matter is that he had a bad attitude problem, but does that make him a cancer? He had the entire freaking team on his side, how is that a cancer?

I never once said I was for a trade, I just said it was interesting and intriguing. If I would have known the moderator would be jumping down my throat, I wouldn't have posted the thread in the first place. As it is, once again you single me out--it's about as usual as you think my subordinate attitude is, I guess.

Anyway, I am more against NVE because of the McDyess fiasco rather than the Issel one. And besides, NVE was the ONLY reason the Mavs went as deep into the playoffs as they did. You'd have to be a fool to not want that type of weapon on your team.

 

[schutd]

Paint me a fool. I dont want that kind of "weapon" on my team.

EDIT: Lemme clarify. Its unfortunate that his talent has to be included with his idiot persona. His career has shown to me that the persona you get with him is more negative than the positives you get from his game. Ne certainly could have changed. It'd be nice to see. I'd LOVE to see him lead GS out of the basement. But he's never shown the ability to lead a team in any sort of positive way. He led them in a walkout, but at the end of the day, that did no good for the team. Lets see him lead his team to some victories. Like said, I dont think he has the stones for it.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by schutd
Paint me a fool. I dont want that kind of "weapon" on my team.

EDIT: Lemme clarify. Its unfortunate that his talent has to be included with his idiot persona. His career has shown to me that the persona you get with him is more negative than the positives you get from his game. Ne certainly could have changed. It'd be nice to see. I'd LOVE to see him lead GS out of the basement. But he's never shown the ability to lead a team in any sort of positive way. He led them in a walkout, but at the end of the day, that did no good for the team. Lets see him lead his team to some victories. Like said, I dont think he has the stones for it.

Understood 100%. And I am a little bit between what you're saying and what you have perceived that I'm saying. I'm not saying he will be a good fit for us (or any team), I'm just saying that I don't think his reputation (especially now) should be as big an issue.

He IS being very idiotic about Golden State, however. But then again, what if YOU were traded from Dallas to Golden State?