Pre-season thoughts overall.

[Chopper0080]

I will be blunt, I am worried.

I understand the the schemes are light and it doesn't mean much as a whole, but this pre-season has really crushed any optimism I had. And again, it wasn't our play, it was HOW we played.

Arians preached accountability.
-I saw a preseason full of the same mental mistakes that have haunted us for years.

Arians preached a big, physical defense.
-I saw a slow, weak defense that got pushed around at will.

Arians preached an offense that would maximize the TE position.
-I saw our TE position as one of the worst on our roster.

Arians and Keim preached this as the dawning of the new Cardinals.
-All I saw was the old Cardinals with moderately better QB play.


After all of the offseason moves, I still saw an offense without an identity and a defense that still couldn't stop the run and no longer could stop the pass. Maybe I am seeing what I have feared I would be seeing, but this has been just brutal. Maybe when turning over almost the entire roster, Keim and Arians turned over the wrong parts?

Maybe while we were cutting Adrian Wilson for Yerimiah Bell we should have been trading for Brandon Albert and cutting Levi Brown?

Maybe instead of adding guys like Matt Shaughnessy, Frostee Rucker and Jasper Brinkley we should have been adding TEs which our offense seems to revolve around and depend on?

Some had been saying this for years, and I will reiterate it further. Maybe instead of adding ILBs and RBs which seem to be a dime a dozen around the league we start adding rush linebackers, offensive linemen and tight ends which seem to be most scarce?

Maybe I am not supposed to, but heading into another season with Levi Brown, Daryn Colledge, Lyle Sendlein, no running game, no TE, and no legitimate pass rusher, I still don't see a plan.

 

[BigRedRage]

I am not too concerned with the offense really, I think it will be much improved. The D however....


Also the loss of cooper really hurts, you could tell he was our best OL the moment he hit the field.

 

[Duckjake]

Maybe when turning over almost the entire roster, Keim and Arians turned over the wrong parts?

Wrong parts or right parts doesn't matter to me. Some of us were concerned back in the Spring when they started dismantling the team and said as much. It is going to take time for all these new parts to fit together. Sure a lot of guys were talented on paper but football is a team game. I wouldn't be surprised to see them start 1-6 or worse this year with a strong finish.

BUT....we have a real QB, I think. Palmer hasn't looked sharp this pre season but he's just started working with the WRs. I keep telling myself that Warner was in his 3rd season with Boldin and Fitz before he started to light it up. So I'm cautiously optimistic to use the old cliche.

One question. It's a team game. They need to learn to play together. So why do teams not play their starters much in pre season? Is Cooper the obvious answer?

 

[kerouac9]

I hope the Cards add 2 more veteran tight ends depending on who is released. It's almost criminal the lack of additions that were made in free agency. Depending on Jeff King to get and stay healthy and hoping for the draft? Criminal negligence.

Of course, Steve Keim has spent his entire professional career with the Arizona Cardinals, so maybe it's forgivable that the doesn't know how to spot talent at running back, rush linebacker, and most especially tight end.

 

[kerouac9]

As for my expectations? I had a thread up this time last year that I was having a hard time getting excited about the 2012 Arizona Cardinals. I'm having less of a hard time getting excited about this group, if only because it looks like we'll be running a high-risk offense that won't blow any teams out, but could create some really entertaining losses that we haven't seen since Kurt Warner was playing for Dennis Green.

This defense is going to be stinky. Catfish and others are going to have to, IMO, eat some crow after talking about how committed this team was to beefing up against the run for the last six months.

 

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

Any team featuring Bowels as D Coord. is cause for concern.

 

[Gottalean]

Any team featuring Bowels as D Coord. is cause for concern.

Real talk... But hey look at the bright side Rex Ryan will be available next year

 

[WildBB]

There are some bright spots, but 8-8 seems like the ceiling unless injuries continue to decimate OTHER teams chances. I hated losing our 1st rounder, Cooper too. That's put the biggest damper on an otherwise potentially vastly improved offense. I still think we have the runners now to make a difference.
We'll see.

On the D Minter and Tyrann are soldid additions.

 

[jefftheshark]

I hope the Cards add 2 more veteran tight ends depending on who is released. It's almost criminal the lack of additions that were made in free agency. Depending on Jeff King to get and stay healthy and hoping for the draft? Criminal negligence.

Of course, Steve Keim has spent his entire professional career with the Arizona Cardinals, so maybe it's forgivable that the doesn't know how to spot talent at running back, rush linebacker, and most especially tight end.

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you aren't that wild about Steve Keim.

Of course, I could be mistaken - like that that time I foolishly thought Mitch didn't like Denny Green

JTS

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm getting a sneaking suspicion that you aren't that wild about Steve Keim.

Of course, I could be mistaken - like that that time I foolishly thought Mitch didn't like Denny Green

JTS

ha.

 

[Phrazbit]

I hate the preseason. I really really hate the preseason. A sham excuse for franchises to force season ticket buyers to shell out for a few extra games. The NFL is too violent a sport to be played in exhibition. Especially when half the guys are just trying to not get hurt and they're out there with guys desperate to make a, literal, impact.

Other than seeing some monster scrubs and knowing "good lord this dude is awful", I dont think preseason games are strong indicator of anything.

 

[Phrazbit]

I'm not excited about Bowel movement either, but last year the defense looked horrible in preseason and ended up being great. I dont see how you can accurately judge anything on the defensive side when teams basically toss their defensive playbook and run vanilla, dish water, junk.

The D could have been lock down amazing or flat out awful this preseason and I dont think it would have told us much either way about how they'll look in week 1.

 

[O]

It was the pre-season which means nothing, nada, zip!!!

Jeez!

 

[seesred]

I will be blunt I'm not! Pre season is just that. We will see this team for the first time next Sunday. I am a optimist. We lost 1 key guy. Running backs and WR are hot. We have a good QB! Our O-line might surprise. Defense starting game 1 will be very good.

We will win our division as we have had a taste of winning.

GBR
40

 

[seesred]

All right I have had a couple tonight. I remain it's going to be a fun year.

GBR
40

 

[kerouac9]

I'm not excited about Bowel movement either, but last year the defense looked horrible in preseason and ended up being great. I dont see how you can accurately judge anything on the defensive side when teams basically toss their defensive playbook and run vanilla, dish water, junk

The D could have been lock down amazing or flat out awful this preseason and I dont think it would have told us much either way about how they'll look in week 1.

I can't agree with that. Partly because I don't believe coaches install "junk" defenses in the preseason.

"All right, guys, lets rep these crappy plays, and don't try hard when you're running 'em, because we can't show anything in the preseason"

Practice reps under the new CBA are too valuable.

 

[Catfish]

Chopper-----While I understand your worry, I can only say that if you are looking for pre-season to disclose the identity of this team, that is likely a mistake. The identity of this team has not yet been established, because there has not yet been an effort made at chemistry building, (save that which occurred as new veteran players assembled with those already on our roster). There has been so much going on simply trying to get the new playbook taught, and determining the final roster, that chemistry has not been addressed. I look for that to start happening now that the final roster is about to be divulged, along with the depth chart.

I follow your concern about the FO changing out the wrong parts. I will only say, that this allowed us to bring in a wealth of veteran talent which we otherwise would not have been able to do. So far as the ramifications of losing A-Dub, and Rhodes, I will only say that A-Dub is reported to be on the bubble at NE, and Rhodes remains unemployed. (Both COULD still become available to this FO if desired). Meanwhile, we have acquired Matthieu, (who will almost certainly be the play-maker we had hoped for at safety). Thus far, no one is concerned about his ability or willingness to perform. We have also procured a wealth of CB's, the talent level of which far outweighs the ones lost in free agency.

So far a stopping the run is concerned, it is the middle of this D-line that has been problematic so far. All were hoping that with the baby fat loss by Dan Williams, and the strength and conditioning from Lott, he would be a plugger in the middle. So far, he has not shown an increased physicality in the middle, (and was hurt in game 3). In fact both he and Lumpkin were out for game 4. One would think that the addition of Lumpkin and Padriac Scott, would have helped at the nose. So far we have not seen that, so a weak middle would not bode well for run stopping. We shall have to see how Williams responds in the regular season, (and see if a nastier back-up for Williams is found.

The real emphasis was on the O-line by the FO, and they did remarkably well. EVERYONE was enthused with the way Cooper had settled into the LG spot, and the addition of Winston, (and the return of Levi), have made this line stronger than last year's model. No one can help Cooper's injury, and bringing Faniaka into the mixture with Colledge at guard, is still better than having the tandem of Colledge and Snyder as we did last year, (especially considering that Watford is still on the roster). Both Potter and Massie, who started last year, are relegated to backups this year. That reflects an increase in depth.

I agree with you about the TE position. Knowing that it is supposed to be a strength of Arian's offense, I do not understand the almost utter lack of performance on the part of the roster members on that unit. One can only hope that the improved depth at running back can make up for what will surely be lost from the playbook because of the poor showing from the TE position so far.

I was terribly disappointed with the play of our defense against San Diego, but I feel that it was more due to lack of effort than to talent. It is clear that Dockett had no wish to be out there on the field, and much of the Defense played without fire as he did. Remember, the ones did not play at all against Denver, and our #3 QB played all but three snaps. I have no fears about how we played in Denver. Yes there were mental errors, but some of that was due to players trying to make plays that got them noticed in an effort to make the roster.

K-9 is correct when he said that I believed we would play the run better than last year. We will need to plug the middle to do so, and without tough NT play, that will be hard to do, unless we show more 4 man fronts. It remains to be seen just how this team will come together, but I still feel that this roster will be far superior to the one we had last year, and I still expect good things from them. I expect hard play, and smart play from this staff and roster, and I expect the exceptional play making ability on this roster, (offense, defense, ans special teams), to be much better than last year. Can we win the West, (not hardly), but we almost surely will perform better than last year, and should play well enough to compete late into games, (where training for situational awareness might just result in a surprise win or two.

 

[JeffGollin]

A few red flags to be sure - but consider:

- Few if any teams have no position-holes on their rosters (Some are better than others at covering up those weaknesses).

- As many offensive or defensive units bounce back from sucky play in one game as remain sucky throughout the season.

- Some veterans have been known to "pace themselves" in unimportant games to save themselves for later in the season.

That said:

- I'm old school in that I believe you should compete as hard as possible on every down and every rep in practice.

- It's more likely that guys who feel they can turn up or turn down the juice whenever they want to will discover that the light bulb won't go on when they need it.

- This problem isn't just about "not playing hard" - it's also about cutting corners on technique.

In this respect, these things worry me. But I don't think the problem is all-encompassing, that "all our coaches suck" etc.

I think we have problems (like all teams). But I also think the jury's out as to what will or won't be fixed, and, for the time being, we should skip over Dr. Kevorkian's phone number in our Roladexes.

 

[Snakester]

I agree that we need to bring in a TE. Housler can be a receiving threat but not much of a blocker. I am excited about both Cooper and Minter. Both look like they will be very good players. On defense we still need to get a pass rusher and another nose tackle. I am not very excited about Cason and Powers. They look more like third and fourth corners. I don't think we will be very good at safety. Both Matthieu and Jefferson show promise but are rookies and will play like rookies a lot of the time. Our starters I think will be below average at safety.
I am looking forward to seeing Washington and Dansby starting in the middle with Minter and Brinkley as backups. That will be the strongest inside linebacking corps that I have ever seen the Cards have. Hopefully Abraham will give us some much needed pass rush. I really thought Okafor would help out the pass rush but he has not impressed me this pre season. He hardly looked like he was trying hard on most plays as he was just going through the motions.

On offense, bringing in Eric Winston was a great move. I hope we sign him to a long term contract by the end of the year. I know the Cards won't do it but I would start Massie at Lt and move Levi Brown inside to guard. Massie has shown better feet this preseason than I thought he had. At some point we will have to upgrade at center. The good news is that Gibson looks like a Sendlein clone so if Sendlein did get hurt we wouldn't lose much.

We will find out what this team is made of next week against the Rams. If Palmer can move this offense and score 25 points a game and our defense plays as good as last year we will have a winning record IMO.

 

[Garthshort]

Chopper, you were doing okay until you said our QB play was ONLY moderately better. You do remember our QB play in 2012? Or were you comparing it to other years?

 

[Southpaw]

Looking forward to next years draft.

 

[kerouac9]

Chopper-----While I understand your worry, I can only say that if you are looking for pre-season to disclose the identity of this team, that is likely a mistake.

So... all was not revealed last Saturday night at 7 p.m. MST?

Teams play better in the regular season than they do in the preseason because of game-planning, a pared-down playbook each week, and a study of the opposition that doesn't happen in August.

But the team is going to look structurally like what it does in the preseason. There just isn't enough time to rep decoy plays, and not repping plays in practice is a great way to get guys injured in the games.

The preseason takeaways for me have been:
1) Rob Housler remains the 4th option in the passing game, having been surpassed by Michael Floyd.

2) A defense founded on letting opponents catch passes and then knocking them out for fumbles is not going to be successful in the regular season.

3) This team is not physical on either side of the football. Rashad Johnson plays soft, and Yeremiah Bell was nowhere to be seen in the preseason. The run game in this offense is more of a counter than it is a foundational element.

 

[Jay Cardinal]

I can't agree with that. Partly because I don't believe coaches install "junk" defenses in the preseason.

"All right, guys, lets rep these crappy plays, and don't try hard when you're running 'em, because we can't show anything in the preseason"

Practice reps under the new CBA are too valuable.

I don't think that you can give the Cardinals defense (1st, 2nd or 3rd team) a pass on their play in the preseason. Yes both offenses and defenses play a vanilla-style gameplan. Typically that favors the defense to key in on the obvious playcall (ie less or no reverses, mis-directions, and flea flickers). So the fact that the Broncos and Chargers lined up and beat the snot out of our defense really scares me.

Perhaps what scares me most is I am not sure Arians and Bowles understand this. The year's front seven with Abraham and Dansby is better, but not dramatically so. Ray Horton and Whiz realized this and were forced to run Cover zero and blitz everyone up the middle, several times a game. Not ideal, but much more exciting to watch than a team taking 6-8 yards a carry on 10:00 minute drives down the field.

I am concerned that Dockett's position and the new secondary could be major holes in this defense and cause them to move back in overall performance. Dockett was thrown around really bad in this year's preseason. Maybe he has not turned it on yet, just hope we don't start hearing excuses on his end.

All the DB's other than Peterson were very up and down, particularly in man-to-man coverage. I am afraid opposing defenses will go 4-wide and then go to town on their favorite matchup. Antoine Cason would have been cut if camp was based solely on preseason performance. Dude can only be played with a safety over top because man-to-man = offensive touchdown. And while Arenas and Powers played adequate in the preseason, they are both short and are going to have trouble with Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, Mike Floyd-type receivers. If I am game planning against the Cards I took some serious notes on all three DBs, oh and Matheiu likes to gamble. Just might be too many new players at once.

 

[Buckybird]

I will be blunt, I am worried.

I understand the the schemes are light and it doesn't mean much as a whole, but this pre-season has really crushed any optimism I had. And again, it wasn't our play, it was HOW we played.

Arians preached accountability.
-I saw a preseason full of the same mental mistakes that have haunted us for years.

Arians preached a big, physical defense.
-I saw a slow, weak defense that got pushed around at will.

Arians preached an offense that would maximize the TE position.
-I saw our TE position as one of the worst on our roster.

Arians and Keim preached this as the dawning of the new Cardinals.
-All I saw was the old Cardinals with moderately better QB play.


After all of the offseason moves, I still saw an offense without an identity and a defense that still couldn't stop the run and no longer could stop the pass. Maybe I am seeing what I have feared I would be seeing, but this has been just brutal. Maybe when turning over almost the entire roster, Keim and Arians turned over the wrong parts?

Maybe while we were cutting Adrian Wilson for Yerimiah Bell we should have been trading for Brandon Albert and cutting Levi Brown?

Maybe instead of adding guys like Matt Shaughnessy, Frostee Rucker and Jasper Brinkley we should have been adding TEs which our offense seems to revolve around and depend on?

Some had been saying this for years, and I will reiterate it further. Maybe instead of adding ILBs and RBs which seem to be a dime a dozen around the league we start adding rush linebackers, offensive linemen and tight ends which seem to be most scarce?

Maybe I am not supposed to, but heading into another season with Levi Brown, Daryn Colledge, Lyle Sendlein, no running game, no TE, and no legitimate pass rusher, I still don't see a plan.

I've been worried since the day BA fired Ray Horton...and then he hires a DC who's teams really haven't had very good defenses. Our strength may have become a weakness, given the frightful play I watch in preseason.

 

[PJ1]

Surprisingly it is the D that worries me far more than the offense. We were beat up in the game against the Chargers. We have no answer at corner opposite Peterson as Powers and Cason were both horrible in coverage. We continually are blown off the ball defending the run.

The front 7 looked anything but physical to me. Lack of a pass rush plus issues at corner and safety will spell disaster for this D in my opinion.

I hope I am wrong.