Preseason Thoughts, Expectations vs Evidence to date

[Chopper0080]

I needed to get some of these thoughts out, and so I figured I would go over what I was expecting to see this preseason in comparison to what I have seen so far. I will go by positions.

QB-
I figured Palmer would be fresh and he has been so far. The issue is, and has been, keeping him that way. I didn't expect much from Blaine Gabbert, and have been happy with what I have seen. He is closer to a Brian Hoyer level QB which has value.

RB-
I figured this would be a group with one really good players and a bunch of replaceable other guys, and that is what it has been. A bit of a theme throughout our roster, we have a good talent level, but only a few spots with really top end talent.

WR-
I was hoping for more consistency from this unit vs last year, and so far it has been anything but that. John Brown has talent but still struggles to consistently be out there. Chad Williams hasn't been able to out play Brittain Golden or JJ Nelson. Fitz is and has been the only constant from this unit.

TE-
I find myself at a disconnect between what I perceive the value and expectation of this position to be vs what the Cardinals perceive. Weakest talent group on the team.

OL-
Great group of players, but not sure we have much top end talent. Iupati has been a disappointment as a Cardinal. It isn't that he has been bad, but far from a top level OG in the NFL. Humphries has shown flashes of good play, but has not be consistent. Boehm looks ok. Shipley and Veldheer are what they are at this point. The nice thing about this group is that we have several startable level backups to give us some of the better depth in the league. Dorian Johnson has been a pretty big disappointment from what I felt I saw in college. It may be tough to keep both Dorian Johnson and Will Holden on the roster when they are playing in the 4th Q of the 3rd preseason game. It may be like DL last year where the team sacrifices at other spots because they believe they will be needing these guys next year ala Olson Pierre.

DL-
Nkemdiche has been a nice surprise. He might be the only guy who can consistently win on the defensive front. My guess is that we won't see many guys play 75% of snaps like Campbell did last year.

OLB-
Golden, Jones, Capi and K Martin is a pretty good group. If you view Reddick as a sub guy, that group gets even more interesting.

ILB-
Dansby makes this unit better which is a testament to his ability at his age. Bucannon will need to be better than last year, and Reddick is not an ILB yet. On paper, those three are a pretty good group, but it is all about potential to this point.

CB-
This has probably been the the unit which has stepped up the most. Over the past two games, Brandon Williams looks like he is not a complete liability in coverage. Bethel has won the job, and Tramon Williams is number 4. When you consider that Mathieu and Baker play in the slot at times, this may now be a position of strength.

S-
Like CB, this group has come together pretty well. Mathieu looks healthy, Branch and Bethea look like capable vets, and Baker looks like he needs to play somewhere. On top of that, Harlan Miller looks much better as a S than a CB.

All in all, our secondary seems to have really solidified so far. Bethel, Williams, and Tramon Williams won't make anyone believe we are Denver, but look to not be embarrassing outside. Adding Baker and Mathieu in the slot, and the group is even better. I would rate the DBs as the best unit on our team at this point.

Offensive line is a big question mark, but the question is more of what the top end of production will be because I believe the baseline and depth are pretty good. Humphries needs to be consistent at LT. Iupati needs to be as well. If that happens, I believe the rest will settle in.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Just like Amos Jones deserves a lot of grief, I think DB coach Nick Rapone deserves a lot of credit and even guys like Peterson... who might not be great in public speaking but are great vets who are willing to teach lol

 

[ajcardfan]

Drew Stanton has played better in this preseason than at any other point in his career in Arizona. Just surprised you gave him no mention at all.

 

[Chopper0080]

I think Stanton is playing like he has someone behind him who can take his job. Personally, I credit Gabbert more for that than Stanton.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Do you feel that the Cardinals view Gabbert as a potential competitor for Palmers spot in the future?

I think they do. I think the front office and coaching staff saw a guy in SF that could still develop. He was extremely raw coming out of Missouri. I really didn't like him because I didnt see him consistently make routine NFL throws. He struggled because of this with Jacksonville.

I think the OL has enough depth to not be embarrassingly bad, but I agree, we should expect more from Iupati. Humphries is still a work in progress, and I expect next year to be the year we see his best play. Boehm will develop into a good starter, but he won't be a Pro Bowler.

I'm not too worried about the defense, but I am worried about WR. Supposedly the Dolphins are offering Jarvis Landry, who would really help this team.

 

[kerouac9]

Do you feel that the Cardinals view Gabbert as a potential competitor for Palmers spot in the future?

I think they do. I think the front office and coaching staff saw a guy in SF that could still develop. He was extremely raw coming out of Missouri. I really didn't like him because I didnt see him consistently make routine NFL throws. He struggled because of this with Jacksonville.

I think the OL has enough depth to not be embarrassingly bad, but I agree, we should expect more from Iupati. Humphries is still a work in progress, and I expect next year to be the year we see his best play. Boehm will develop into a good starter, but he won't be a Pro Bowler.

I'm not too worried about the defense, but I am worried about WR. Supposedly the Dolphins are offering Jarvis Landry, who would really help this team.

If they do, it says more about a brain trust that has been enamored of guys like Mike Glennon, Logan Thomas and prospect Blaine Gabbert than it does about Gabbert's ability to produce like a solid NFL starter.

Real questions about this teams ability to evaluate the quarterback position.

 

[Proximo]

Do you feel that the Cardinals view Gabbert as a potential competitor for Palmers spot in the future?

I think they do. I think the front office and coaching staff saw a guy in SF that could still develop. He was extremely raw coming out of Missouri. I really didn't like him because I didnt see him consistently make routine NFL throws. He struggled because of this with Jacksonville.

I think the OL has enough depth to not be embarrassingly bad, but I agree, we should expect more from Iupati. Humphries is still a work in progress, and I expect next year to be the year we see his best play. Boehm will develop into a good starter, but he won't be a Pro Bowler.

I'm not too worried about the defense, but I am worried about WR. Supposedly the Dolphins are offering Jarvis Landry, who would really help this team.

I think gabbert is now the plan as our next qb. I may be crazy but I actually think I might be ok with that. I think he has looked great, and actually may succeed. I still want to draft a qb, but I would give gabbert first crack at it.

I am hopeful humphries becomes a very good lt, he has the tools, I think he just needs experience. Veldheer on the other hand seems to be regressing.

I am worried about our d stopping the run.

 

[ajcardfan]

I think Stanton is playing like he has someone behind him who can take his job. Personally, I credit Gabbert more for that than Stanton.

Fair enough.

 

[AZCrazy]

Gabbert at his best is a capable backup. Which is fine, but I don't want this teams brass to continue the lineage of poor evaluation.
Logan T should not have been drafted in the 4th. Lindley and Skelton are attributable to the previous regime, but Matt Leinart remains the only QB drafted before the third day since Jake Plummer.

 

[pmacLean]

Gabbert is the new Bethel... eventually everyone will conveniently forget how the saw him as mediocre at best ...

 

[Proximo]

Gabbert at his best is a capable backup. Which is fine, but I don't want this teams brass to continue the lineage of poor evaluation.
Logan T should not have been drafted in the 4th. Lindley and Skelton are attributable to the previous regime, but Matt Leinart remains the only QB drafted before the third day since Jake Plummer.

What exactly is gabbert missing. If he has any issues they are mental, and thus far I haven't seen any. I have seen dozens of qbs play for the cards over the years, gabbert's play has been better than almost all of them.

I know he hasn't had great success, but look at the receivers he has had to work with. I realize qbs don't usually become good in their sixth season, and maybe he will fall apart when non vanilla d is played against him, but somehow I think he is going to succeed.

Look at Sam Bradford, he is now finally somewhat producing after several years, it is possible.

Let's put it this way if gabbert was a rookie we had just drafted everyone would be ecstatic over his performance this preseason.

 

[gmabel830]

What exactly is gabbert missing.

You mean other than having any success of any kind in real NFL football games?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Proximo]

I don't think anyone is saying bethel is any better than mediocre yet. The sample size is to small, I mean he has been thrown at what 5 times this preaseason?

Occasionally players do just get it. Bethel has only really been a corner for three years, and due to injury and time on the bench, the number of snaps he's actually played are pretty low.

I know it is not the norm, but how many players even get enough time to figure it out?

 

[Proximo]

You mean other than having any success of any kind in real NFL football games?

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

I know what you are saying, but the gabbert playing for the cards looks much better than he did as a Niner.

Alex smith seemed to look a lot better after he left there too.

 

[kerouac9]

Blaineghazi is wonderful. All he's missing is any history of competing when anything matters. Or staying healthy. He's Ryan Lindley with a draft pedigree.

We deserve everything we get if we trust Blaine Gabbert with a starting job.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Blaineghazi is wonderful. All he's missing is any history of competing when anything matters. Or staying healthy. He's Ryan Lindley with a draft pedigree.

We deserve everything we get if we trust Blaine Gabbert with a starting job.

Hold on a minute, Lindley was never accurate under any circumstances lol

 

[JeffGollin]

It's hard to match evidence to expectation that early for this team, because the evidence for most players usually takes the form of a few appearances in a single game or two.

We don't know yet whether this year's version of the Cardinals are -"roller coaster" or "rock-solid consistent."

Until we have opportunity over the next few weeks to see whether a player's performance is "one trick" or "consistent", it will be hard to make credible evaluations.

Of course, we have reasonable "hunches" (& every reason to be hopeful) but "evidence" is an entirely different animal IMO.

 

[Chopper0080]

Again, I think Gabbert has demonstrated the ability to be a Brian Hoyer type QB. I don't think there is any sort of long term success with making a player like that your QB for the future.

Do I believe Gabbert is on the roster this time next year...yes. Do I believe he will be on the roster as a starter? Only if he is battling a 1st round QB we drafted. Other than that, he is a backup.

 

[AZCrazy]

Let's put it this way if gabbert was a rookie we had just drafted everyone would be ecstatic over his performance this preseason.

If you want to look at it that way, that's fine. But he's in his 7th season now. He is what he is.
He may perform a bit better with different coaching or line play, but he isn't turning into Aaron Rodgers. And if you want to win a Super Bowl, you need

A: Tom Brady
B: Peyton Manning
C: Drew Brees
D: Aaron Rodgers
E: Ben Roethlisberger

etc, etc. Suffice it to say you need a H.O.F. quarterback.

 

[Catfish]

Gabbert may be a product of always having to play the opponent's QB in practices, as well as having a turnover of OCs every year. I am elated by what I have seen from him thus far and am really hoping that a whole season with one OC and being able to learn the playbook will prove that his assets were quality when he came into the league, but he just did not get the opportunity to shine.

I say that because his arm strength and accuracy, along with his escapeability just might have naturally caused HCs to select him to play the opponent QB in practices. Don't know that for certain, just guessing. I have seen nothing from him to make me fear him taking over the huddle if needed here with us. Lord, when you look at the tons of QBs that we have been thru here, he looks very solid--------at least with his measureables.

As for the OL I agree with you that it is serviceably deep, but no better than that. That may be all that is needed though.

I am right there with you on the defensive secondary-----very decent and deep and versatile.

I am also liking how the OLBs have been setting a hard edge and turning things back inside where Capi and a couple of others, (Williams I think is one), who have done a great job of bringing down the ball carried near or behind the LOS. Our defensive front should complement each other and do a decent job of keeping each other fresh

 

[ajcardfan]

I don't believe in Gabbert. He's just been around too long and disappointed every where.


Doesn't mean the Cards think that. So I hope if they think he is QBOF that he actually comes through.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I don't know what Gabbert's NFL future holds, probably not much, but anyone who questions his physical talent when throwing the football doesn't know what they are talking about. He has a very accurate, strong arm. He just doesn't/hasn't translated that to real NFL game action. He likely never will but he has looked great in the pre season. Problem is, it's the pre season.

 

[kerouac9]

I don't know what Gabbert's NFL future holds, probably not much, but anyone who questions his physical talent when throwing the football doesn't know what they are talking about. He has a very accurate, strong arm. He just doesn't/hasn't translated that to real NFL game action. He likely never will but he has looked great in the pre season. Problem is, it's the pre season.

Are there people in this thread doing that?

What is the value of an accurate strong arm if you can't showcase it during an NFL game?

 

[GuernseyCard]

If you want to look at it that way, that's fine. But he's in his 7th season now. He is what he is.
He may perform a bit better with different coaching or line play, but he isn't turning into Aaron Rodgers. And if you want to win a Super Bowl, you need

A: Tom Brady
B: Peyton Manning
C: Drew Brees
D: Aaron Rodgers
E: Ben Roethlisberger

etc, etc. Suffice it to say you need a H.O.F. quarterback.

Suffice to say that there are HOF QB's who never won a championship and QBs who were never truly considered for the HOF who have.

 

[Mainstreet]

Gabbert may not be the answer at QB long term but I sure feel better with him on the roster. I'm for giving him a chance when the time comes.

As noted by others, he minimally has given Stanton competition which has improved his play.