QB Richard Bartel

[Mitch]

Is Kevin Kolb a proven NFL QB?

We know that Richard Bartel isn't.

Yet, when you look at the two players---same size (6-3, 225), relatively same arm strength, same athleticism (average)---

Bartel may be just as good, if not better.

Bartel is a classic West Coast type QB: 3-5 step drops, plant, step up and throw. He's classic because he has the potential to be very accurate and precise.

What Kurt Warner proved is that no-name QBs, if given the right situation and the opportunity can seize the day.

You never know.

Right place---right time---right results.

I write this to point out that Kolb had some opportunities in Philly---some good, some not so good---now they want to get rid of him---

And I guess the real gist of my point is...what does a successful QB in the NFL need?

He needs:

1. A head coach, an offensive coordinator and teammates who believe in him.

2. An offensive system that is catered to his strengths.

3. A supporting cast who can allow him to distribute the ball with consistent success.

We obviously haven't seen enough of Bartel to know or even sense whether he has the makings of being a successful QB in Arizona---but, have we seen enough of Kolb to the point where it makes sense to give up DRC and a conditional 3rd rounder (2nd if Kolb makes Pro Bowl).

To me---that price tag---on top of having to shell out a $70M contract after you trade for him, is sheer lunacy.

My final point is this---no matter who the QB is this year, Whiz has to find a way to put trust and conviction in him---and as long as there is trust and conviction, even Richard Bartel might surprise you.

 

[Divide Et Impera]

So, you have obviously moved on from BSP....

 

[Mitch]

So, you have obviously moved on from BSP....

No, DEI, I am still heartbroken.

I saw the best of BSP in high school and at BC and I can tell you, had the dice rolled a little differently for him in the NFL, he might have made some noise.

But---as this thread attests---it's so hard to just get the chance (esp. when you are the #3)---and when you do, you have to make the most of it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

It's threads like this that make me miss this board.

 

[Duckjake]

We know that Richard Bartel isn't.

No we don't.

Not even a month after he was signed Bartel was our starting QB.

I trust the coaches far more than all you Monday Morning QBs.

 

[Buckybird]

I saw Bartel play many preseason games here in Dallas & he flat out blows!!! Kolb may not be the next Warner, but he sure isnt as bad as Bartel.

 

[Mitch]

I saw Bartel play many preseason games here in Dallas & he flat out blows!!! Kolb may not be the next Warner, but he sure isnt as bad as Bartel.

Warner blew early too, Bucky.

Bartel also threw for something like 20-26 in a pre-season game.

Now--like I said---we have no idea what Bartel can do yet---

But my point is---we often automatically assume that a player who was drafted in the 2nd round must be far better than an UCFA.

It's all about perceptions.

The reality is, as Warner proved---when you have a coach who believes in you, as Dick Vermeil did in Warner when Trent Green went down in pre-season and the Rams could have made a deal to get another QB---but Vermeil stuck with his convictions in Warner---

And look what happened...

 

[DemsMyBoys]

Someday I'm going to be powerful enough to make a rule that no one can compare any Cardinals QB with Kurt.

Ever.

Unless he's better than Kurt.

 

[DutchmanAZ]

Mitch - I love your eternal optimism about low/undrafted players. As much as this is sometimes ridiculed here, it's nice to know someone is out there rooting for the under dog aside from me (I'm a Skelton guy myself). Pipe dream? Maybe. I think dreaming is part of being a fan personally.

And now - off to watch the Dbacks and dream of a pennant win!

 

[Duckjake]

Warner blew early too, Bucky.

Bartel also threw for something like 20-26 in a pre-season game.

Now--like I said---we have no idea what Bartel can do yet---

But my point is---we often automatically assume that a player who was drafted in the 2nd round must be far better than an UCFA.

It's all about perceptions.

The reality is, as Warner proved---when you have a coach who believes in you, as Dick Vermeil did in Warner when Trent Green went down in pre-season and the Rams could have made a deal to get another QB---but Vermeil stuck with his convictions in Warner---

And look what happened...

And look what happened when Trent Green, an 8th round pick, finally got a chance to start full time with his 4th NFL team. 20,117 yards passing and 101 TDs in only 5 seasons 2001-2005.

 

[Pariah]

Yeah, it happens. But more often than not these UDFAs don't make it.

If Bartell becomes the guy, I'm right there on the Bartell Bus. But I have a feeling if he becomes the guy it's for lack of a better option, not because the team sees him as the next rags-to-riches story.

 

[Solar7]

Yeah, may as well skip trading for a QB. We have Bartel.

...Seriously? Sometimes I'm on board with your ideas, but this is ridiculous.

 

[O]

What does Kolb have that other QB's don't?

A good PR machine.

 

[Duckjake]

Someday I'm going to be powerful enough to make a rule that no one can compare any Cardinals QB with Kurt.

Ever.

Unless he's better than Kurt.

Charley Johnson.

He was so good he played 9 years for the Cardinals, beat Lombardi's Packers in a postseason game, and is in the Denver Broncos ring of fame!

I still can't figure out how Johnson got into Denver's ROF.

 

[jaguarpaw81]

I have seen plenty of Bartel and please believe me when I say he is not, and never will be, a good starting QB in the NFL.

 

[Mitch]

The point of this thread was not to suggest the Cardinals should name Bartel the starting QB.

My point is in reaction to all the hype Kolb is receiving---and---sometimes players who receive no hype may possibly be just as good or even better if a coach were to have faith in him.

There are several starting QBs right now who had very little hype coming into the league: Romo, Hasselbeck, Fitzpatrick, Garrard, Cassell...and the ultimate of all: Tom Brady.

What inspired this thread is the thought of the Cardinals acquiescing to the Eagles' demands of a 1st and 3rd---or DRC and a conditional 3rd (2nd if Kolb makes Pro Bowl).

I would rather sign a free agent veteran and put trust in Skelton (who I like a lot) and Bartel---and keep the $80M Kolb demands...and keep DRC...and keep next year's 1st 2nd and 3rd draft picks...especially with a rich QB class coming out.

 

[Pariah]

There are several starting QBs right now who had very little hype coming into the league: Romo, Hasselbeck, Fitzpatrick, Garrard, Cassell...and the ultimate of all: Tom Brady.

And...wait for it...Orton.

 

[Garthshort]

Mitch, you make a great point. But perception is reality, and the perception is that Kolb is an up and comer. More importantly, we have to get a QB that sends a message to Fitz, and that is why Bartel will have to wait for an injury (probably) to get a chance. And that's assuming he beats out Skelton in TC, assuming we have a TC. JMO.

 

[TRW]

I'm convinced that Kolb will be the man...

but not all that excited about it. I agree that the hype on Kolb is really too over the top.

Mitch, I get the gist of your post and thoughts (I think). You could put any name in your hypothesis, you just used Bartel because he was here at the end of last year. But, the reality is that a "roll of the dice" or a "coach's faith" in a player will NOT guarantee success if the player just doesn't have the tools to be successful. Bartel, Hall and hundreds and hundreds of others just don't have all of the tools to be successful starting QBs in the NFL.

The trouble is, only a handful of guys fit the mold of surprise success stories. I will still suggest that MOST successful franchise guys are drafted and developed by a team NOT traded for or lucked into as a FA. Which is why there are more Scott Mitchel stories than Johnny U stories.

I'm just afraid that the Cards will give Kolb a lot of money for little return. I have little faith in Whis & Co.'s evaluation of QB capabilities after last season. Probably a knee jerk reaction and last season was an anomoly (I hope).

I'll just be glad when this labor situation is resolved and we KNOW, good or bad, who will be taking snaps for our Cardinals this season.

 

[JeffGollin]

Time to Get Real...

The body language of the national and local media suggests, with growing conviction, that Kolb will be our guy.

Assuming we land him, he's odds-on to be our starter; unless Skelton or Bartel do something during preseason to knock everyone's socks off.

This is unlikely, due to the truncated time alotted toward familiarizing Kolb to the Cardinal system (i.e. he'll get almost all the snaps - Skelton and Bartel will be sucking hind tit).

I like Skelton's and Bartel's potential, but their rate of development figures to be impeded due to preseason lack of attention.

One other unknown factor - the 90-man limit and expanded roster make it easier for a team to keep a 4th or even a 5th QB on the PS or active roster; so we might find the Cards adding a second veteran.

We could even conceivably retain Max Hall, but I'm just not sure he physically can overcome the combination of lack of height and non-elite foot-speed.

 

[Pariah]

I'm just not sure [Hall] physically can overcome the combination of lack of height and non-elite foot-speed.

Or his 12 year-old girl hands.

 

[lobo]

Warner blew early too, Bucky.

Bartel also threw for something like 20-26 in a pre-season game.

Now--like I said---we have no idea what Bartel can do yet---

But my point is---we often automatically assume that a player who was drafted in the 2nd round must be far better than an UCFA.

It's all about perceptions.

The reality is, as Warner proved---when you have a coach who believes in you, as Dick Vermeil did in Warner when Trent Green went down in pre-season and the Rams could have made a deal to get another QB---but Vermeil stuck with his convictions in Warner---

And look what happened...

Mitch..know what I love about you (only as a man can love another man) is the unpredictability of your posts. Aside from a great writing style, even when I am 180 on the other side it is always done well. I have been a Kolb guy forever and will never be convinced otherwise even though I am open to it. Those who disagree, that's a good thing. As I have said in the past when there are 4/5 choices there will be many unhappy campers.....it will be a "Solomonesque" like decision.

 

[lobo]

The body language of the national and local media suggests, with growing conviction, that Kolb will be our guy.

Assuming we land him, he's odds-on to be our starter; unless Skelton or Bartel do something during preseason to knock everyone's socks off.

This is unlikely, due to the truncated time alotted toward familiarizing Kolb to the Cardinal system (i.e. he'll get almost all the snaps - Skelton and Bartel will be sucking hind tit).

I like Skelton's and Bartel's potential, but their rate of development figures to be impeded due to preseason lack of attention.

One other unknown factor - the 90-man limit and expanded roster make it easier for a team to keep a 4th or even a 5th QB on the PS or active roster; so we might find the Cards adding a second veteran.

We could even conceivably retain Max Hall, but I'm just not sure he physically can overcome the combination of lack of height and non-elite foot-speed.

Nice to see many of the heard coming out of hibernation....can't wait until next Tuesday. Let us all hope the train does not pull out of the station while some are still pondering their navels.

 

[JeffGollin]

Nice to see many of the heard coming out of hibernation....can't wait until next Tuesday. Let us all hope the train does not pull out of the station while some are still pondering their navels.

The BRS blog is back up and running. I just hope I don't jinx the negotiations.

 

[lobo]

The BRS blog is back up and running. I just hope I don't jinx the negotiations.

That's great!!! I am tired of re-reading the auto-biography of Sam Etcheverry
(yeah Jeff, me you and a handful of others remember him). I was at the "Big Ball Park" when he beat the Jints.