Reasons why Suns lose in playoffs

[pokerface]

Here are some reasons why the Suns wont do good in the playoffs. Don't kill the messenger....just reporting on what I've seen and heard.

1) Suns dont like physical Bball...playoffs are full of that kind of game

2) Teams get back on defense more....Suns wont fastbreak as much

3) Suns have questionable depth off the bench...starters will wear down during series

4) JoeJ and Q are too streaky. JoeJ won't hack the pressure either

5) Mavs fans claim Nash wears down at the end of the season and doesnt play well in the playoffs.

6) Suns interior defense isn't reliable...not enough toughness

 

[elindholm]

Thanks for the insights. That gives us all something to think about.

 

[scotsman13]

Here are some reasons why the Suns wont do good in the playoffs. Don't kill the messenger....just reporting on what I've seen and heard.

1) Suns dont like physical Bball...playoffs are full of that kind of game

yea they dont do as well in the physical ball game, but the nba is going to keep the play a lot less physical during the playoffs to bring the entertanment back to the game. the nba needs the game to pick up it pace to recover some ground.

2) Teams get back on defense more....Suns wont fastbreak as much

great then the suns will have forced the other team to move away from getting offensive rebounds and second shots. lets face facts this team is a very good shooting team. if other teams dont hit the offensive boards then we'll really have an advanage.


3) Suns have questionable depth off the bench...starters will wear down during series.

stars end up playing more in the playoffs then they do during the regural season. on most teams they dont have 5 starters that have the skill that ours do. that is one of the biggest reasons they have more depth then the suns do is they play their bench looking for another player who can score, we dont have that weakness. most starting line up have 2 scorers and then someone off the bench as a scorer, for the suns when amare goes to the bench you can have marion or jj or nash or q pick up the scoring. heck off the bench we can bring in jim jackson and barbosa who are both good scorers. then we have hunter, jake, walter and bo there to bring us some good defense and energy. dont look down on this bench because they dont score, they dont need to.

4) JoeJ and Q are too streaky. JoeJ won't hack the pressure either.

streaky? yea i guess you could say that but the simple fact is jj is the 4th best 3 point shooter in the nba right now and q has made more then anyone else in the nba. but on this team there is always someone else to pick up the scoring if some one has an off night. depth is a term that most people thing of being their bench for the suns it is their starting line up.

5) Mavs fans claim Nash wears down at the end of the season and doesnt play well in the playoffs.

yea he plays with so much energy during the reg season that he has worn down during the playoffs in the past. but there are a couple reasons to believe that this isnt going to happen this season. first nash had a new work out program designed for him to improve his weaknesses and give him more endurance. there have been a a number of comments on how looks faster this season ( that is because of his workout program.) also DA has been keeping nash's minute down under 35 minutes a game. all in all unless other teams really get to pounding on nash i dont think that he will show much differance during the playoffs.

6) Suns interior defense isn't reliable...not enough toughness.

sure it isnt the best but something i dont understand when to this game stopped making the team that scored the most points the winner. this team has a .774 winning % so far this season. that means that we are playing enought defense to make sure we will win the game.


now i am not saying that the suns will win it all this year but i do think they will make a run in the playoffs and have a good year and if you count the suns out now you are doing yourself a big disservice.

 

[JPlay]

Here are some reasons why the Suns wont do good in the playoffs. Don't kill the messenger....just reporting on what I've seen and heard.

1) Suns dont like physical Bball...playoffs are full of that kind of game

yea they dont do as well in the physical ball game, but the nba is going to keep the play a lot less physical during the playoffs to bring the entertanment back to the game. the nba needs the game to pick up it pace to recover some ground.

2) Teams get back on defense more....Suns wont fastbreak as much

great then the suns will have forced the other team to move away from getting offensive rebounds and second shots. lets face facts this team is a very good shooting team. if other teams dont hit the offensive boards then we'll really have an advanage.


3) Suns have questionable depth off the bench...starters will wear down during series.

stars end up playing more in the playoffs then they do during the regural season. on most teams they dont have 5 starters that have the skill that ours do. that is one of the biggest reasons they have more depth then the suns do is they play their bench looking for another player who can score, we dont have that weakness. most starting line up have 2 scorers and then someone off the bench as a scorer, for the suns when amare goes to the bench you can have marion or jj or nash or q pick up the scoring. heck off the bench we can bring in jim jackson and barbosa who are both good scorers. then we have hunter, jake, walter and bo there to bring us some good defense and energy. dont look down on this bench because they dont score, they dont need to.

4) JoeJ and Q are too streaky. JoeJ won't hack the pressure either.

streaky? yea i guess you could say that but the simple fact is jj is the 4th best 3 point shooter in the nba right now and q has made more then anyone else in the nba. but on this team there is always someone else to pick up the scoring if some one has an off night. depth is a term that most people thing of being their bench for the suns it is their starting line up.

5) Mavs fans claim Nash wears down at the end of the season and doesnt play well in the playoffs.

yea he plays with so much energy during the reg season that he has worn down during the playoffs in the past. but there are a couple reasons to believe that this isnt going to happen this season. first nash had a new work out program designed for him to improve his weaknesses and give him more endurance. there have been a a number of comments on how looks faster this season ( that is because of his workout program.) also DA has been keeping nash's minute down under 35 minutes a game. all in all unless other teams really get to pounding on nash i dont think that he will show much differance during the playoffs.

6) Suns interior defense isn't reliable...not enough toughness.

sure it isnt the best but something i dont understand when to this game stopped making the team that scored the most points the winner. this team has a .774 winning % so far this season. that means that we are playing enought defense to make sure we will win the game.


now i am not saying that the suns will win it all this year but i do think they will make a run in the playoffs and have a good year and if you count the suns out now you are doing yourself a big disservice.

I wish all of these excuses...err....justifications were correct, but I don't get the feeling that this team is as dominant as you think. The truth is that we play the worst team in the league the same way we play the best in the league. Every game seems to be down to the wire. The Suns lack of defense is almost painful to watch at times. As Majerle mentioned yesterday...a lack of fundamentals and opponents high FG% is killing the Suns. They are outscoring every team, but not playing the defense necessary to beat teams comfortably. I am as happy as the next guy about the team's success, but I'm not sold on how good this team really is. I think they will be exposed in the playoffs where the play is much more physical. And no...the refs will not be calling the playoffs less physical. The league wants an exciting game, but refs call the game the way the call the game and intensity raises up a level in the playoffs. We can't hope the refs will bail us out.

 

[scotsman13]

We can't hope the refs will bail us out.

the refs do what the nba as a whole wants. they enforce the rules while trying to keep the game going. the nba has stated that he wants the hand checks gone so to ease up the ability to drive this is a rule that has been on the books and it had dropped to not being enforced. the nba (the boss) sent out a letter at the beginning of the season stating that they wanted this rule enforced. so it will be enforced in the playoffs as well as it is during the reg. season. to enforce the rules isnt asking the refs to bail us out it is asking the refs to do their job.

but agian i dont think this is the suns year. i have stated this for a long time this is the youngest team in the nba it is going to take some time for them to learn to be a team together. now next year or the year after i think is the time for this team.

 

[jibikao]

Well, defense is definitely one of our biggest weaknesses. Any team has a weakness.

I guess what worries me the most is how we give up easy baskets over and over again. It's one thing to be a bad defensive team and it's another thing to just slack off on the defensive end. I think we slack off more than we actually SUCK at defense.

Another thing is Suns is very good at stealing because our guys are quick and we deflect ball quite often. Our steals and blocks are above average I think.

If anything, boxing out is what we need the most. I don't expect Suns to be a great defensive team but we can't give up offensive rebounds like that. And it doesn't help that we are undersized.

I do like D'Antoni's approach though. If we are undersized and can't play good defense, then we'll use our strength (offense) to win the game. Amare gives up defensive rebounds but he runs fast to the other court to punish those slow centers. I guess in the end, it balances out (at least right now).

It is still amazing that we have 41-12 record when we know we have so many weaknesses. LOL I mean do you not think that other teams KNOW our weaknesses?? I mean everybody knows we have bad defense but we still win.... don't know what it means but I'll take 41-12.

Jimmy

 

[elindholm]

the nba has stated that he wants the hand checks gone so to ease up the ability to drive this is a rule that has been on the books and it had dropped to not being enforced. the nba (the boss) sent out a letter at the beginning of the season stating that they wanted this rule enforced.

Yes, and you'll notice what happened: The officials called hand checking differently for about three weeks, then went back to their usual interpretation of the rules.

Some of you seem to have short memories. Every season begins with an announcement that "The officials have been asked to call such-and-such a lot more this year. This will improve the game and get the league back closer to something the fans want to see." And every season, we see a difference for a few weeks, causing the players and coaches to get frustrated, causing most fans to echo that frustration (since fans will always amplify the frustration that "their" players and coaches show), and finally causing things to get back to normal fairly quickly.

I think it is likely that the Suns will struggle in the playoffs for the reasons we've been uneasy about all year. However, at this point, they have shown enough ability to adjust and perseverance that it would be a mistake to count them out. Any further discussion of the matter is just beating a dead horse.

 

[Cheesebeef]

but agian i dont think this is the suns year. i have stated this for a long time this is the youngest team in the nba it is going to take some time for them to learn to be a team together. now next year or the year after i think is the time for this team.

totally agree - what team has EVER just shot up like us and won a title? It took the Spurs a couple years with Duncan - it took the Pistons a couple years, it took the Lakers a couple years with Shaq and Kobe - it took the Bulls a couple years of losing in the playoffs - it took the 80's Pistons a couple years - hell - it even took the Rockets years of playoff failure to get there - basically - every team to win a title in the last 15 years has had to get over on SOMEONE before they finally made it.

Really - the only one in recent memory to do so were the 80's Lakers and Celtics - and well - that was all Magic and Bird - arguably two of the 5 greatest players of all time.

I presume we'll have to take our lumps just like every other great team before achieving that top goal - I even look forward to the heartache as it will ultimately make the championship even sweeter.

 

[CardNots]

totally agree - what team has EVER just shot up like us and won a title? It took the Spurs a couple years with Duncan - it took the Pistons a couple years, it took the Lakers a couple years with Shaq and Kobe - it took the Bulls a couple years of losing in the playoffs - it took the 80's Pistons a couple years - hell - it even took the Rockets years of playoff failure to get there - basically - every team to win a title in the last 15 years has had to get over on SOMEONE before they finally made it.

Really - the only one in recent memory to do so were the 80's Lakers and Celtics - and well - that was all Magic and Bird - arguably two of the 5 greatest players of all time.

I presume we'll have to take our lumps just like every other great team before achieving that top goal - I even look forward to the heartache as it will ultimately make the championship even sweeter.

And great teams like Utah and Portland who never made it. Sometimes it depends on who is in your way to the top. Currently, I would say Detroit(maybe not) and SA will have to run their course. The Suns have a very young starting 5. I don't think they have the hunger yet. They need to get close this year to bring on the hunger pains for next year.

I really think it lies in Amare's hunger, as he is the only one who can carry this team on his back...

 

[Cheesebeef]

And great teams like Utah and Portland who never made it. Sometimes it depends on who is in your way to the top. Currently, I would say Detroit(maybe not) and SA will have to run their course. The Suns have a very young starting 5. I don't think they have the hunger yet. They need to get close this year to bring on the hunger pains for next year.

I really think it lies in Amare's hunger, as he is the only one who can carry this team on his back...

totally agree - it's really all on Amare - because if he can somehow merge his game to be a COMPLETE dominant force on both ends of the coirt - we'd be unstoppable - he's not there yet - but I DO believe he ahs the drive to be the best and is young enough and we've seen improvements in hisgame every year that leads me to believe it WILL happen at some point.

Great point about that hunger thing - that really only comes with playoff heartbreak. Not the same in the NFL where a team CAN seemingly come out of nowhere - like the Rams back in 1999 or the Pats in 2001 - but in the NBA, it's practically unheard of for something like that too happen.

 

[jbeecham]

I won't count the Suns out in the playoffs. Anything can happen and the Suns have the ability to get hot offensively and outshoot any team in the NBA. Also, every team is suceptible to injuries and if anyone's top player goes down it can change the outcome of the playoffs.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I won't count the Suns out in the playoffs. Anything can happen and the Suns have the ability to get hot offensively and outshoot any team in the NBA. Also, every team is suceptible to injuries and if anyone's top player goes down it can change the outcome of the playoffs.

I don't think anyone's counting the Suns out - I just think it would be HIGHLY unlikely for us to beat either the Spurs or the Pistons - assuming everyone's healthy.

Do you not see how the pattern has gone through the last two decades - it seems that anything CAN'T happen in the playoffs - teams need to be battle tested before they ultimately step up to the plate - don't know how you can argue that.

 

[JPlay]

I really don't think that we scare any team in the playoffs right now. I think teams believe they can beat us because we don't play good fundamental basketball (defense). They see the Suns as more of a gimmic.

I can't say I have full confidence in this team like the 92-93 Suns. This team needs to win some games with their defense and show they are not just one dimensional.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I really don't think that we scare any team in the playoffs right now. I think teams believe they can beat us because we don't play good fundamental basketball (defense). They see the Suns as more of a gimmic.

I can't say I have full confidence in this team like the 92-93 Suns. This team needs to win some games with their defense and show they are not just one dimensional.

dude - that team didn't play good defense either. Personally - I don't care if we "scare" anyone -people can continue thinking we aren't all that as we continue to rack up W, after W after W after W after W. You do realize that we are 40-7 with Steve Nash, right? I think no one is scared of us because we haven't proven anything in the playoffs - not because we play bad defense.

Besides - you make it seem like nothing is possible because of our bad D, as if previous Suns team didn't make runs in the past with the same - REALLY pathetic level of D - like the 1988 and 1989 teams - 88 - we got to the western conference Finals after going 7-1 in the first two round but met one of the best Laker teams ever who SWEPT the entire Western Conference - we didn't lose to them because we played bad D - we lost to them because THEY WERE BETTER THAN US - then the next year against Portland - again in the Western conference finals, we lost because KJ had a hammy in Game 6 - where he had 16 points at the half and we were up 10, but didn't play again and we lost in the closing seconds.

Luckily for us - the west - besides San Antonio - seems to be falling back into a run and gun conference - with the Kings, Sonics and Mavs are pushing the ball - same with Memphis. The only one who doesn't seemingly is SA or Houston(who is soooooo soft it's pathetic). And you know what - if we lose to SA, it'll be a case of just not being as good as a two-time title holder. Now if we lose to anyone else -you can bitch and moan all you want, and I'll porbably be right there with you - but it's worked so far and you have to at this point give DA enough rope to hang himself so to speak - he's earned it with the best record in the league with such a young squad really playing together as a unit for the first time.

 

[sly fly]

I wish all of these excuses...err....justifications were correct, but I don't get the feeling that this team is as dominant as you think. The truth is that we play the worst team in the league the same way we play the best in the league. Every game seems to be down to the wire. The Suns lack of defense is almost painful to watch at times. As Majerle mentioned yesterday...a lack of fundamentals and opponents high FG% is killing the Suns. They are outscoring every team, but not playing the defense necessary to beat teams comfortably. I am as happy as the next guy about the team's success, but I'm not sold on how good this team really is. I think they will be exposed in the playoffs where the play is much more physical. And no...the refs will not be calling the playoffs less physical. The league wants an exciting game, but refs call the game the way the call the game and intensity raises up a level in the playoffs. We can't hope the refs will bail us out.

Trivia. Who's the league leader in point differential?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Trivia. Who's the league leader in point differential?

the Spurs?

 

[JPlay]

dude - that team didn't play good defense either. Personally - I don't care if we "scare" anyone -people can continue thinking we aren't all that as we continue to rack up W, after W after W after W after W. You do realize that we are 40-7 with Steve Nash, right? I think no one is scared of us because we haven't proven anything in the playoffs - not because we play bad defense.

Besides - you make it seem like nothing is possible because of our bad D, as if previous Suns team didn't make runs in the past with the same - REALLY pathetic level of D - like the 1988 and 1989 teams - 88 - we got to the western conference Finals after going 7-1 in the first two round but met one of the best Laker teams ever who SWEPT the entire Western Conference - we didn't lose to them because we played bad D - we lost to them because THEY WERE BETTER THAN US - then the next year against Portland - again in the Western conference finals, we lost because KJ had a hammy in Game 6 - where he had 16 points at the half and we were up 10, but didn't play again and we lost in the closing seconds.

Luckily for us - the west - besides San Antonio - seems to be falling back into a run and gun conference - with the Kings, Sonics and Mavs are pushing the ball - same with Memphis. The only one who doesn't seemingly is SA or Houston(who is soooooo soft it's pathetic). And you know what - if we lose to SA, it'll be a case of just not being as good as a two-time title holder. Now if we lose to anyone else -you can bitch and moan all you want, and I'll porbably be right there with you - but it's worked so far and you have to at this point give DA enough rope to hang himself so to speak - he's earned it with the best record in the league with such a young squad really playing together as a unit for the first time.

How many 20+ point wins do the Suns have. Is it not obvious to you, but everyone else that every Suns game are always down to the wire. Can you not see that the Suns struggle to contain teams for scoring. These difficiencies will not get this team anywhere in the playoffs, where Defense wins championships. Can you name a team in the last two decades that wasn't a good Defensive team?

 

[Cheesebeef]

How many 20+ point wins do the Suns have. Is it not obvious to you, but everyone else that every Suns game are always down to the wire. Can you not see that the Suns struggle to contain teams for scoring. These difficiencies will not get this team anywhere in the playoffs, where Defense wins championships. Can you name a team in the last two decades that wasn't a good Defensive team?

we are SECOND IN THE LEAGUE IN POINT DIFFERENTIAL - hgow much better are we supposed to be there?

And I'm not saying we are going to win the title - I'm not saying we play good defense - why don't you try reading a post or two fully before you just putting words in other people's mouths.

Do you really believe that the Kings lost to the Lakers a couple years ago because they played defense? Or do you believe the Kings lost to the Lakers because they ARE CHOKE ARTISTS?

For the last time - to be PERFECTLY CLEAR - I DON'T THINK THIS TEAM CAN WIN A TITLE - but with the best recor din the league, witht he second highest point differential in the league and in his first full season as head coach, can you not cut a guy A LITTLE FREAKING SLACK HERE? like I said -if we lose to anyone else besides SA, you can bitch and moan all you want AND I'LL PROBABLY BE THREE WITH YOU - but until then, I think it's too early to say any style won't work in the first couple round sof the playoffs.

 

[sly fly]

the Spurs?

1. Spurs +10.5
2. Suns +8.1

Must be blowing out somebody.

 

[sly fly]

we are SECOND IN THE LEAGUE IN POINT DIFFERENTIAL - hgow much better are we supposed to be there?

And I'm not saying we are going to win the title - I'm not saying we play good defense - why don't you try reading a post or two fully before you just putting words in other people's mouths.

Do you really believe that the Kings lost to the Lakers a couple years ago because they played defense? Or do you believe the Kings lost to the Lakers because they ARE CHOKE ARTISTS?

For the last time - to be PERFECTLY CLEAR - I DON'T THINK THIS TEAM CAN WIN A TITLE - but with the best recor din the league, witht he second highest point differential in the league and in his first full season as head coach, can you not cut a guy A LITTLE FREAKING SLACK HERE? like I said -if we lose to anyone else besides SA, you can bitch and moan all you want AND I'LL PROBABLY BE THREE WITH YOU - but until then, I think it's too early to say any style won't work in the first couple round sof the playoffs.

Exactly. People who are bitching about PHX right now have no basic grasp of reality. Or basketball.

To all Suns fans: Enjoy every waking second of this season. Bottle it. Don't let anything detract from what's already been accomplished. Why? Because we're already ahead of the game. No one expected this kind of turnaround. And, I've got news for you cynics...

It's only getting started.

 

[JPlay]

1. Spurs +10.5
2. Suns +8.1

Must be blowing out somebody.

Yeah New Orleans

 

[asudevil83]

Trivia #2

Who allows the most offensive rebounds per game?
What is the difference between the last place team and second to last?

additionally, i'll add some more statistics in here.

the suns have been averaging 113 points per game in February, while allowing 108. this 5 point differencial also factors in a 29 point win against the lowly Wolves. if you forget about that game, we're averaging 113.8 and giving up 113.3 this month. anyone who doesnt see that as a problem is blind to reality.

also, we've been allowing 15.7 offensive rebounds per game this month, while only grabbing an average of 10.7. OUCH!!!! this team right now makes
teams like Golden State look like rebounding machines.
our biggest weakness right now is rebounding....and it carries over into pretty much every aspect of our game. our effort allows for a few things here.

1.) teams dont need to be agressive. with only the PF and C looking to board, teams can fall back on defence. thus, keeping us from fast break points.
2.) fast breaks usually come from missed shots. it seems like lately teams are getting those boards until the ball falls in. without rebounds off missed shots, we cant run either.
3.) with these second, third, fourth chance points teams stay in the game. if teams stay close (within 10 points) Coach D'Antoni is more reluctant to go to the bench. we've seen our starters log heavy minutes in games they shouldnt have because we cant put teams away.

without rebounding and defense we lose our run and gun (pretty much our only strength against teams)

some of you guys need to REALLY grasp reality here. face it, many of those season statistics are inflated and dont support the way this team has been playing lately. we are lucky to win some of these games here. we could EASILY, VERY FREAKING EASILY BE 4-3 THIS MONTH INSTEAD OF 5-2.

 

[playstation]

you know what, i agree with the defense aspect, but with a caveat (which means an explanation to avoid misunderstanding a just learned today!): I have seen the suns play darn near perfect, and if they can do it again (I don't see why not), I think they win the title. I know, easier said than done, but case in point, 6 game stretch from 1/1-1/11:

Sun 2 Portland W 117-98 Stoudemire 50 Stoudemire 11 Nash 10
-completely demolished them. imposed will in 1st half, cruised to victory

Tue 4 at Minnesota W 122-115 Stoudemire 34 Stoudemire 8 Nash 16
-completely demolished them. up by 20 w/ 5 min left before amare ejected...

Wed 5 at Houston W 108-98 Marion 22 Richardson 14 Nash 13
-close final score, but rox never threatened, we led the whole game, 2nd of back to back...

Sat 8 at LA Clippers W 108-91 Johnson 23 Marion 11 Nash 10
-completely demolished them. 20 lead after 1st qtr, cruised...

Sun 9 Indiana W 124-89 Marion 21 Stoudemire 14 Nash 9
-completely demolished them. 20 lead after 1st qtr, cruised...

Tue 11 Miami W 122-107 Stoudemire 34 Marion 11 Nash 16
-completely demolished them. 15 lead after 1st qtr, cruised...

those 6 games show me that if they put forth their best effort, they are REDICULOUSLY good. imo, during the dog days, you praise WINS, you don't nitpick about HOW they win. I want them playing their best heading into the postseason, not now...

 

[elindholm]

Who's the league leader in point differential?

Casey Jacobsen?

 

[sly fly]

Trivia #2

Who allows the most offensive rebounds per game?
What is the difference between the last place team and second to last?

additionally, i'll add some more statistics in here.

the suns have been averaging 113 points per game in February, while allowing 108. this 5 point differencial also factors in a 29 point win against the lowly Wolves. if you forget about that game, we're averaging 113.8 and giving up 113.3 this month. anyone who doesnt see that as a problem is blind to reality.

also, we've been allowing 15.7 offensive rebounds per game this month, while only grabbing an average of 10.7. OUCH!!!! this team right now makes
teams like Golden State look like rebounding machines.
our biggest weakness right now is rebounding....and it carries over into pretty much every aspect of our game. our effort allows for a few things here.

1.) teams dont need to be agressive. with only the PF and C looking to board, teams can fall back on defence. thus, keeping us from fast break points.
2.) fast breaks usually come from missed shots. it seems like lately teams are getting those boards until the ball falls in. without rebounds off missed shots, we cant run either.
3.) with these second, third, fourth chance points teams stay in the game. if teams stay close (within 10 points) Coach D'Antoni is more reluctant to go to the bench. we've seen our starters log heavy minutes in games they shouldnt have because we cant put teams away.

without rebounding and defense we lose our run and gun (pretty much our only strength against teams)

The biggest stat of all: 42-12. Best record in the league. Until teams find other ways to beat the Suns, your argument holds no water.