Recent media stuff on Leinart and Warner

Skkorpion

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Two things:

One, Bickley and Jurecki.

They spent a full hour and a half this morning talking about the Cardinals. One of their best shows ever. I'm sure joeschmo can fix anything I get wrong and add what I missed.

Lots of talk about tickets, the stadium and sellouts or blackouts. Many pseudo fans selling Dallas and New York seats. Mike thinks there may be only three or four sellouts, hence some blackouts but he's not sure yet.

Lots of intelligent fans calling too, chiming in to say they won't sell any cowscum tickets (Mike congratulating them warmly and encouraging that behavior). Some people making the valid point that we are seeing the natural fallout of the casual fan who was drawn to a new stadium, chances at super bowl tickets and is easily abandoning us absent big winning. Bandwaggoners.

Jurecki is sold on our front seven rotation group on defense. Loves them. He thinks all our malcontents will be in camp on time.

Both of them are solidly on the side of starting Kurt Warner at QB and think maybe Whisenhunt erred a little annointing Leinart the starter.

Then Mike added, with conviction, that he knows Whisenhunt and his entire staff will not accept any QB play that might lose some games, in bringing Leinart along.

They will not accept any backslide in the win/loss record, for any player, at any position. All of the coaches are agreed, these Whisenhunt teams will always play to win right now.

Short term, here is the problem. Cards and Warner both want and need to extend Warner's contract. So, if you're Kurt, and you're going to start, you want to be extended at starter's pay.

But you don't know if you'll start, and Whisenhunt can't tell you right now, how do you agree to a fair extension? Fair to both parties?

And ... both parties know that lowering Kurt's cap hit before July 15 would help tremendously in negotiating with Dansby.

Then throw in Mike's personal opinion that Leinart really has improved in all areas and that Whisenhunt's positive assessments of Matt are genuine and Matt might very well be the long term answer.

Right now, every observer watching the QB battle in person sees a Kurt Warner who is a real top 5 NFL QB with more than just one good year left. To a man, they are amazed. (The players see it too, says Mike)

A Warner who took Haley's coaching criticisms to heart and practices sound ball protection on every play, keeping both hands on the ball on every rollout and every scramble until the moment he throws it. Same when sitting in the pocket.

Kurt told Jurecki and anybody who will listen, he feels better than he has in years and believes firmly he has a lot left. Mike says that Kurt won over a lot of people in that locker room last year, playing hurt, going 5-3 in the last 8 games while throwing 21 of his 27 TDs in that period.

Anyway, Jurecki and Bickley think highly of Whisenhunt and wonder how he'll alot the preseason playing time if Warner keeps his level of dominance through the first few weeks of camp. Will Ken give each guy good PT with the first team offense, maybe alternating games as starter?

If he doesn't, Kurt will then know for sure the competition is not open and other players at other positions may think that maybe they too won't get a fair shot. Players are not dumb. They'll know.

So Whisenhunt's annointing of Leinart has set up a self-made conundrum. It will be interesting to watch it and to see if Ken has that special something it takes to be super bowl contending coach.

That's how the discussion went. No negativity. Just excellent info and analysis.

Enough of that. Item two from a national writer on Kurt Warner:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10870186
 
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Bigdez22

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I think Ken will do whats best for this team in the long run. I dont think he could look the players in the face and tell them that Matt gives them the best chance for wins

Warner is the starter in 08
 

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For what it's worth, Skkorp, MJ and Bickley said that the quarterback competition was DEAD EVEN, or INCREDIBLY CLOSE, not implying that Kurt is well ahead and that Leinart is still developing. That was the sense that I got.

I don't think it's wrong to say that if the competition is even, then Leinart has the edge because he's 10 years younger than Warner. It doesn't sound like Warner's ahead of Leinart in the play so far.

I think that the media loves Kurt because he gives them more access, also. Leinart doesn't seem to have developed relationships with the local chattering class, which leads to him not getting favorable treatment.
 

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I'll tell you this [after re-reading this I have decided I have been in South Jersey too long].....you start Warner and you risk losing your QOF. You risk putting Leinart in a situation where he was never really given a chance to show what he can do.

You also risk playing Warner, who had a great second half of the year, but the two years before that, the year in NY, and his last few in St. Louis has looked VERY average at best.

It is a BIG risk in my opinion. To not start Leinart and at least give him a chance would be the biggest mistake the Cardinals could make right now. A mistake that could haunt us for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

I have been saying this since Leinart got hurt last year. Just give the kid a chance.
 
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RugbyMuffin

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For what it's worth, Skkorp, MJ and Bickley said that the quarterback competition was DEAD EVEN, or INCREDIBLY CLOSE, not implying that Kurt is well ahead and that Leinart is still developing. That was the sense that I got.

I don't think it's wrong to say that if the competition is even, then Leinart has the edge because he's 10 years younger than Warner. It doesn't sound like Warner's ahead of Leinart in the play so far.

I think that the media loves Kurt because he gives them more access, also. Leinart doesn't seem to have developed relationships with the local chattering class, which leads to him not getting favorable treatment.

BAM!

And there you have it. Warner has the media in the palm of his hand. I don't think he is doing it on purpose....but he is a very sly character in a way.

Plus everyone loves the under dog, and they LOVE anything that makes the Cardinals look bad. Like saying Leinart is the starter.
 

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some teams are going to training camp hoping to find a QB that can play

The Cards look like they get to pick between two who can

Its kinda like worrying about paying alot of taxes because you have alot of income. Its a high end problem.
 

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For what it's worth, Skkorp, MJ and Bickley said that the quarterback competition was DEAD EVEN, or INCREDIBLY CLOSE, not implying that Kurt is well ahead and that Leinart is still developing. That was the sense that I got.

I don't think it's wrong to say that if the competition is even, then Leinart has the edge because he's 10 years younger than Warner. It doesn't sound like Warner's ahead of Leinart in the play so far.

I think that the media loves Kurt because he gives them more access, also. Leinart doesn't seem to have developed relationships with the local chattering class, which leads to him not getting favorable treatment.


Give it up. Warner is starting. As well he should.
 

Buckybird

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I'll tell you this [after re-reading this I have decided I have been in South Jersey too long].....you start Warner and you risk losing your QOF. You risk putting Leinart in a situation where he was never really given a chance to show what he can do.

You also risk playing Warner, who had a great second half of the year, but the two years before that, the year in NY, and his last few in St. Louis has looked VERY average at best.

It is a BIG risk in my opinion. To not start Leinart and at least give him a chance would be the biggest mistake the Cardinals could make right now. A mistake that could haunt us for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

I have been saying this since Leinart got hurt last year. Just give the kid a chance.

Amen!!! Matt has to be the starter in week 1 to keep his mind right. Rugby, you're right if Warner starts on day one, Leinart is as good as history mentally. People forget that Matt has played ONLY 15 games in his 2 seasons and showed he could play at this level in year one. QB's in the NFL normally take 3-4 seasons to understand what is going on. As much as I like KW as a man and what he has accomplished in an unpredictable career, the guy is 35 years old and still a turnover machine. Do I want to win this season, heck yeah!!! But the future is Leinart, here or elsewhere. Matt WILL be a very good QB in this league, that is a promise.
 

Bigdez22

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What if Matt comes out and looks like crap the first 2 weeks? Whats that going to do for his confidence?

If he is the starter in week one and plays like he did before he got hurt last year........Then he is done

I dont see any shame in playing behind a former MVP and a true warrior. If anything it lets Matt know he still needs to step it up.

I dont like anything being handed to a guy, and if Matts Mind cant handle that....Then we already have a problem. Warner gives us the best chance to win ballgames. I dont think you can argue with that, so Warner should be the starter.
 
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Skkorpion

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For what it's worth, Skkorp, MJ and Bickley said that the quarterback competition was DEAD EVEN, or INCREDIBLY CLOSE, not implying that Kurt is well ahead and that Leinart is still developing. That was the sense that I got.

I don't think it's wrong to say that if the competition is even, then Leinart has the edge because he's 10 years younger than Warner. It doesn't sound like Warner's ahead of Leinart in the play so far.

I think that the media loves Kurt because he gives them more access, also. Leinart doesn't seem to have developed relationships with the local chattering class, which leads to him not getting favorable treatment.

Thanks, Daisy. All of us hear things through a different filter. It's good to verify.
 
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Skkorpion

Skkorpion

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some teams are going to training camp hoping to find a QB that can play

The Cards look like they get to pick between two who can

Its kinda like worrying about paying alot of taxes because you have alot of income. Its a high end problem.

Exactly. That's what I gathered too but didn't quite express properly.
 
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Skkorpion

Skkorpion

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BAM!

And there you have it. Warner has the media in the palm of his hand. I don't think he is doing it on purpose....but he is a very sly character in a way.

Plus everyone loves the under dog, and they LOVE anything that makes the Cardinals look bad. Like saying Leinart is the starter.

In this case you are completely wrong and ignored I wrote that Bickley and Jurecki were not knocking either guy and were speaking positively about the coach and the team.

You're certainly entitled to have any opinion you wish on Leinart and Warner. I'm disappointed you were unable to grasp any of overall positive media vibes I was trying to report.
 

dreamcastrocks

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Two things:

One, Bickley and Jurecki.

They spent a full hour and a half this morning talking about the Cardinals. One of their best shows ever. I'm sure joeschmo can fix anything I get wrong and add what I missed.

Lots of talk about tickets, the stadium and sellouts or blackouts. Many pseudo fans selling Dallas and New York seats. Mike thinks there may be only three or four sellouts, hence some blackouts but he's not sure yet.

Lots of intelligent fans calling too, chiming in to say they won't sell any cowscum tickets (Mike congratulating them warmly and encouraging that behavior). Some people making the valid point that we are seeing the natural fallout of the casual fan who was drawn to a new stadium, chances at super bowl tickets and is easily abandoning us absent big winning. Bandwaggoners.

Jurecki is sold on our front seven rotation group on defense. Loves them. He thinks all our malcontents will be in camp on time.

Both of them are solidly on the side of starting Kurt Warner at QB and think maybe Whisenhunt erred a little annointing Leinart the starter.

Then Mike added, with conviction, that he knows Whisenhunt and his entire staff will not accept any QB play that might lose some games, in bringing Leinart along.

They will not accept any backslide in the win/loss record, for any player, at any position. All of the coaches are agreed, these Whisenhunt teams will always play to win right now.

Short term, here is the problem. Cards and Warner both want and need to extend Warner's contract. So, if you're Kurt, and you're going to start, you want to be extended at starter's pay.

But you don't know if you'll start, and Whisenhunt can't tell you right now, how do you agree to a fair extension? Fair to both parties?

And ... both parties know that lowering Kurt's cap hit before July 15 would help tremendously in negotiating with Dansby.

Then throw in Mike's personal opinion that Leinart really has improved in all areas and that Whisenhunt's positive assessments of Matt are genuine and Matt might very well be the long term answer.

Right now, every observer watching the QB battle in person sees a Kurt Warner who is a real top 5 NFL QB with more than just one good year left. To a man, they are amazed. (The players see it too, says Mike)[/b]

A Warner who took Haley's coaching criticisms to heart and practices sound ball protection on every play, keeping both hands on the ball on every rollout and every scramble until the moment he throws it. Same when sitting in the pocket.

Kurt told Jurecki and anybody who will listen, he feels better than he has in years and believes firmly he has a lot left. Mike says that Kurt won over a lot of people in that locker room last year, playing hurt, going 5-3 in the last 8 games while throwing 21 of his 27 TDs in that period.

Anyway, Jurecki and Bickley think highly of Whisenhunt and wonder how he'll alot the preseason playing time if Warner keeps his level of dominance through the first few weeks of camp. Will Ken give each guy good PT with the first team offense, maybe alternating games as starter?

If he doesn't, Kurt will then know for sure the competition is not open and other players at other positions may think that maybe they too won't get a fair shot. Players are not dumb. They'll know.

So Whisenhunt's annointing of Leinart has set up a self-made conundrum. It will be interesting to watch it and to see if Ken has that special something it takes to be super bowl contending coach.

That's how the discussion went. No negativity. Just excellent info and analysis.

Enough of that. Item two from a national writer on Kurt Warner:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10870186


I think us Cards fans are delirious if any of us think that KW is really a top 5 QB right now.

He definitely isn't better than Brady, or either Manning, or Palmer. He isn't better than Romo or Rothlisburger either. Hell, he might be 3rd best in the NFC West behind Hasselback and Bulger.

This doesn't even include the marginally better ones like Garrard, Rivers, Anderson, etc.

I think both Leinart or Warner can lead this team.
 

ajcardfan

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I think us Cards fans are delirious if any of us think that KW is really a top 5 QB right now.

He definitely isn't better than Brady, or either Manning, or Palmer. He isn't better than Romo or Rothlisburger either. Hell, he might be 3rd best in the NFC West behind Hasselback and Bulger.

This doesn't even include the marginally better ones like Garrard, Rivers, Anderson, etc.

I think both Leinart or Warner can lead this team.

Warner could put up big numbers this year. Certainly. But, people seem to be blotting out of their memories the games in Seattle and New Orleans last December. There were more people ready to kick KW to the curb, than there were saying he should be the starter next year.

Like I've said before, Warner could take us to the playoffs next year and it could actually hurt the franchise in the long run. It's best if Leinart plays to his potential and contract status.
 

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I think Ken will do whats best for this team in the long run. I dont think he could look the players in the face and tell them that Matt gives them the best chance for wins

Warner is the starter in 08


Very, very well said. I'm so torn on this subject. The only thing I am certain about is I will root for whichever QB comes out of that tunnel each week.
 

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Amen!!! Matt has to be the starter in week 1 to keep his mind right. Rugby, you're right if Warner starts on day one, Leinart is as good as history mentally. People forget that Matt has played ONLY 15 games in his 2 seasons and showed he could play at this level in year one. QB's in the NFL normally take 3-4 seasons to understand what is going on. As much as I like KW as a man and what he has accomplished in an unpredictable career, the guy is 35 years old and still a turnover machine. Do I want to win this season, heck yeah!!! But the future is Leinart, here or elsewhere. Matt WILL be a very good QB in this league, that is a promise.

Exactly. Matt needs someone to have faith in him. Ride or die. I am sure Kurt thinks he is the man, I would be concerned if he didn't. Truth is, we have a possible long term answer in Matt. Kurt is Kurt and Kurt gives you the good with the bad. He forces throws, he fumbles, he is past his prime. Matt stil has time to learn. It's not like Kurt has a few years to hone his craft.
 

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Who do the players want to go to war with. It looks and sounds by the way this article is written, Its Warner

This team needs to win now!!!!!!!! I would rather we win 10 games this season to let the guys know that Ken and his boys knows what it takes to win ballgames.

If this team goes to 6-10 or 5-11, we will be looking for a new coach by the end of his 3rd season. the easy part of our schedule is in the first 8 weeks. If we end up going 2-5 or 3-5, we will be lucky to win 4 to 5 games. This team needs to come out guns blazing next year, and i know Warner can do it. He may not, but I know he can. I cant say the same for Matt.
I cant justify asking 51 other players to go out there and give it there all when we are not starting the best football player at the most important position on the team.
 
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black

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Has Warner or Leinart put pads on yet? After the preseason is when I'll make my judgement on Warner. I still remember the fumble against the Rams a few seasons back that broke my heart.
 

RugbyMuffin

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Has Warner or Leinart put pads on yet? After the preseason is when I'll make my judgement on Warner. I still remember the fumble against the Rams a few seasons back that broke my heart.

Or the interception thrown RIGHT TO Dexter Coakley while we when on the 2 yard line earlier in that game.
 

joeshmo

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Who do the players want to go to war with. It looks and sounds by the way this article is written, Its Warner

I think you might have misinterpreted what was stated. Having listened to the piece on the radio, it isnt that the players perfer Warner its that they see a guy who can still play at a good level, but they also see the work, effort, progress, and just as good offseason as Kurt in Matt since he got injured. Didnt sound like there was a preference among the players yet, just that "they like both guys which will make for an interesting battle going forward". How that prefrence would play out and be decided going foward was the major gist of the radio piece.

Also something of not that I thought was funny. When Kurt was asked about how the coaches have been making his turnovers a major focus by making him hold onto the ball with two hands and moving around the pockett, Kurt is quoted as saying, "I have to work on it becuase I suck at it."
Pretty funny and brutally honest self apprasial.
 

red desert

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What if Matt comes out and looks like crap the first 2 weeks? Whats that going to do for his confidence?

If he is the starter in week one and plays like he did before he got hurt last year........Then he is done

I dont see any shame in playing behind a former MVP and a true warrior. If anything it lets Matt know he still needs to step it up.

I dont like anything being handed to a guy, and if Matts Mind cant handle that....Then we already have a problem. Warner gives us the best chance to win ballgames. I dont think you can argue with that, so Warner should be the starter.

Well said.
 

RugbyMuffin

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If this team goes to 6-10 or 5-11,

Whiz has already stated he will pull Leinart if he does not produce.

Leinart understands he is currently fighting to keep his job.

Furthermore, if you don't think Leinart is a nasty competitor and won't lead his team "to war and through it" then you have not been watching this kid in college, or during his first year at QB.

If this team goes 6-10 or 5-11 it won't be because Leinart was in as QB and hell or high water stays in there. If this team suffers, and not even in one game, in a half because of Leinart's play Warner will get his chance. Upon saying that I hope Warner plays at the "Pro Bowl" level everyone thinks he will if he gets a shot. It is a huge assumption that everyone is making, and that the media is starting to hang its hat on.
 

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In this case you are completely wrong and ignored I wrote that Bickley and Jurecki were not knocking either guy and were speaking positively about the coach and the team.

You're certainly entitled to have any opinion you wish on Leinart and Warner. I'm disappointed you were unable to grasp any of overall positive media vibes I was trying to report.

My bad Skorp. I read, I understood.....I even had help from my wife on the big words. j/k :)

I didn't keep in mind that it is not the ENTIRE media. The beat writers for the Cardinals have been very accurate with thier reporting. In beat writers I mean Bickley, Jurecki, Urban, and maybe one or two guys I forget.

But you gotta admit the national media, and other clueless rumor factories are ALL OVER this subject and are in love with Warner right now.
 

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