Redo the draft... 1996

[elindholm]

Wow, there were a lot of good players in the 1996 draft.

Original:

1. Allen Iverson
2. Marcus Camby
3. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
4. Stephon Marbury
5. Ray Allen
6. Antoine Walker
7. Lorenzen Wright
8. Kerry Kittles
9. Samaki Walker
10. Erick Dampier
11. Todd Fuller
12. Vitaly Potapenko
13. Kobe Bryant

For the rest, see http://nbadraft.net/1996.htm.

My redo:

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Jermaine O'Neal
3. Stephon Marbury
4. Allen Iverson
5. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
6. Ray Allen
7. Marcus Camby
8. Zydrunas Ilgauskas
9. Steve Nash
10. Ben Wallace
11. Antoine Walker
12. Peja Stojakovic
13. Erick Dampier

 

[fordronken]

Is this who we would pick, or who we think would get chosen by the general general manager?

 

[PhxGametime]

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Jermaine O'Neal
3. Ben Wallace
4. Stephon Mabury
5. Allen Iverson
6. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
7. Ray Allen
8. Steve Nash
9. Zydrunas Ilgauskas
10. Antoine Walker
11. Marcus Camby
12. Predrag Stojakovic
13. Erick Dampier

 

[slinslin]

Ben Wallace over Steph? Ben Wallace isn't even a top25 player in this league with his lack of offense.

1. Kobe
2. Marbury
3. Iverson
4. Jermaine O'Neal
5. Ray Allen
6. Peja Stojakovic
7. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
8. Steve Nash
9. Antoine Walker
10. Ben Wallace
11. Zydrunas Ilgauskas
12. Marcus Camby
13. Malik Rose

 

[Joe Mama]

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Jermaine O'Neal
3. Allen Iverson
4. Stephon Marbury
5. Antoine Walker
6. Ray Allen
7. Steve Nash
8. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
9. Peja Stojakovic
10. Zydrunas Ilgauskas


I think some of you have really, really underestimated Walker's worth. I don't think there's a chance in hell a team would pass on him for Marcus Camby.

Joe Mama

 

[Divide Et Impera]

1) Todd Fuller
2) Roy Rogers
3) Brian Evans
4) Martin Muursepp
5) Walter McCarty
6) Dontae Jones
7) Efthimis Rentzias
8) John Wallace
9) Travis Knight
10) Samaki Walker
11) Vitaly Potapenko
12) Marcus Camby
13) Lorenzen Wright
14) Eric Dampier
15) Now the Suns get the pick of the litter....

 

[elindholm]

I think some of you have really, really underestimated Walker's worth.

I think Walker is the most overrated player in the league. By a lot.

Didn't realize that 1996 was Ben Wallace's year. I've changed mine now.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
I think some of you have really, really underestimated Walker's worth.

I think Walker is the most overrated player in the league. By a lot.

Truer words have never been spoken. Walker is a PF who wants to play in 3-point land. Talk about overrated.

 

[elindholm]

Is this who we would pick, or who we think would get chosen by the general general manager?

I'm choosing who I would pick if I were a GM, which means I'd have slightly different priorities than if I were a mere fan, not that I can articulate what those differences are.

 

[fordronken]

I think people are confusing the word "overrated" for "bad". Yes, he is overrated, but that doesn't make him worse than a player with less ability whose worth has been accurately assesed.

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Jermaine O'Neal
3. Stephon Marbury
4. Allen Iverson
5. Ray Allen
6. Ben Wallace
7. Antoine Walker
8. Steve Nash
9. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
10. Predrag Stojakovich
11. Marcus Camby
12. Zydrunas Ilgauskas
13. Erick Dampier.
14. Jerome Williams
15. Malik Rose

 

[Joe Mama]

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Jermaine O'Neal
3. Allen Iverson
4. Stephon Marbury
5. Ray Allen
6. Ben Wallace
7. Steve Nash
8. Antoine Walker
9. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
10. Peja Stojakovic
11. Zydrunas Ilgauskas

Originally posted by elindholm
I think some of you have really, really underestimated Walker's worth.

I think Walker is the most overrated player in the league. By a lot.

Antoine Walker does take too many three-point shots now, but keep in mind that his coach is encouraging these guys to fire away from behind the line. I guarantee if the Celtics trade away Walker without getting a damn good player in return they're going to be hurting. I don't think you can call him overrated though. You rarely see anybody gushing over him these days. Despite his poor shooting percentage I would rather have him than Shareef Abdur-Rahim.


Joe Mama

 

[elindholm]

Despite his poor shooting percentage I would rather have him than Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

Wow!

Abdur-Rahim is much better in all shooting categories and rebounds, trailing only in assists. Last year's numbers:

PPG: Walker 20.1, Abdur-Rahim 19.9
RPG: Walker 7.2, Abdur-Rahim 8.4
APG: Walker 4.8, Abdur-Rahim 3.0
TurnoversPG: Walker 3.3, Abdur-Rahim 2.6
FG%: Walker .388, Abdur-Rahim .478
3FG%: Walker .323, Abdur-Rahim .350 (21-60)
2FG%: Walker .427, Abdur-Rahim .486
FT%: Walker .615, Abdur-Rahim .841

Edit: Forgot another important one...
FTA per game: Walker 3.7, Abdur-Rahim 6.7

So I just can't agree with you on this one. I'd take Abdur-Rahim over Walker even if I knew Abdur-Rahim was going to miss 15 games a year.

 

[elindholm]

I think people are confusing the word "overrated" for "bad".

I also think Walker is bad. He's definitely below average among the league's starting PFs.

 

[PhxGametime]

4. Stephon Mabury


The 1 player I spell incorrect is a Phoenix Suns player.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by elindholm

I also think Walker is bad. He's definitely below average among the league's starting PFs.

Here are 30 players who will probably be starting next year or started last year(the Howard/Gooden situation was difficult to categorize). To be below average, Walker would have to be worse than fifteen of the people on this list. The question now is, are we basing this on what they will do next year, or who you would rather have on your team for the long term? Asterixes are placed next to players who I think will be better for their teams next year(compared to Walker), and bullets next to the players who I think will have better overall careers than Walker.

*•Abdur-Rahim
Antoine Walker
PJ Brown
•Tyson Chandler
Carlos Boozer
*•Dirk Nowitzki
•Hilario
•*Garnett
Brian Grant
Anthony Mason
•Amare Stoudemire
*•Rasheed Wallace
*•Tim Duncan
Antonio Davis
*•Karl Malone
*•Elton Brand
Keon Clark
Christian Laettner
*•Jermaine O'Neal
Clifford Robinson
*•Antawn Jamison
*•Gasol
Othella Harrington
D. Coleman
Drew Gooden
Juwon Howard
*•Kenyon Martin
*•Chris Webber
Eddie Griffin
Reggie Evans

So, according to my assesment, he is currently an above average power forward, but his career will end up being worse than most other starting calliber power forwards at this time.

And as a side note, making this list got me to realize that there are more decent power forwards than I initially thought.

 

[elindholm]

I was basing it on just last year. I would say that Howard and Grant were also better than Walker. So that makes 14 who had better seasons (in my opinion), which means ... I was wrong. Walker isn't below average; he's right smack in the middle.

 

[fordronken]

Originally posted by elindholm
I was basing it on just last year. I would say that Howard and Grant were also better than Walker. So that makes 14 who had better seasons (in my opinion), which means ... I was wrong. Walker isn't below average; he's right smack in the middle.

Regardless, he is undeniably overrated. However, I don't think the Celtics would have been as good if they'd had Howard or Grant instead of Walker. On that same note, I don't think the Nuggets or Heat would have been any worse with Walker, and may have even been better.

 

[Joe Mama]

OK. I think you guys may have convinced me. I don't know what it is about Shareef Abdur-Rahim. He puts a very nice numbers, but I just don't think he's a very good power forward. So, my new reformed list looks like this...

1. Kobe Bryant
2. Jermaine O'Neal
3. Allen Iverson
4. Stephon Marbury
5. Ray Allen
6. Ben Wallace
7. Steve Nash
8. Shareef Abdur-Rahim
9. Antoine Walker
10. Peja Stojakovic
11. Zydrunas Ilgauskas

I think the Celtics' coaches need to encourage Walker to take the ball inside. He actually has some nice moves going to the basket.

Joe Mama

 

[hcsilla]

Originally posted by elindholm
Despite his poor shooting percentage I would rather have him than Shareef Abdur-Rahim.

Wow!

Abdur-Rahim is much better in all shooting categories and rebounds, trailing only in assists. Last year's numbers:

PPG: Walker 20.1, Abdur-Rahim 19.9
RPG: Walker 7.2, Abdur-Rahim 8.4
APG: Walker 4.8, Abdur-Rahim 3.0
TurnoversPG: Walker 3.3, Abdur-Rahim 2.6
FG%: Walker .388, Abdur-Rahim .478
3FG%: Walker .323, Abdur-Rahim .350 (21-60)
2FG%: Walker .427, Abdur-Rahim .486
FT%: Walker .615, Abdur-Rahim .841

Edit: Forgot another important one...
FTA per game: Walker 3.7, Abdur-Rahim 6.7

That's a very nice example of the statement "stats don't tell everything".

Call me stupid too but also I would take Walker over SAR. He is simply a better player.
And nobody can convince me with stats.

 

[elindholm]

Call me stupid too but also I would take Walker over SAR. He is simply a better player.

You aren't stupid, just wrong.

 

[Joe Mama]

I know Chad Ford of ESPN Insider is just another NBA "expert", but check out his list of free agents for next summer. I believe it is listed in order of the top free agents. However I also believe the player's expected availability has something to do with the ranking as well.

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Kobe Bryant
3. Allen Iverson
4. Antoine Walker
5. Stephon Marbury
6. Rasheed Wallace
7. Steve Nash
8. Kenyon Martin
9. Antonio McDyess
10. Vlade Divac

Joe Mama