Referee Incompetence Thread

[JCSunsfan]

OK, here is the idea of this thread. We follow games throughout the season and document clear cases of referee incompetence. No judgment calls here. Only clearly missed or wrong calls or misinterpretation of the rules. It might be good to sticky this if it is deemed worthy.

I'll start tonight. Steve Nash rebounds the ball in the closing seconds of tonights game and feeds LB down the court. The Sacramento neglects to reset the Sacramento shot clock and it goes off as LB is receiving the pass, startling him. He fumbles the ball out of bounds.

The play was called as a turnover on the Suns.

The correct call according to the rule book is to stop play the moment the clock sounds and award the ball to the defensive team--in this case the Suns since it was Sacramento's shot clock that was still running. Here is what the official NBA rule book states.

k. Whenever the 24-second clock reads 0 and the ball is dead for any reason other than a defensive three-second violation, kicking violation, punched ball violation, personal foul or a technical foul by the defensive team, a 24-second violation has occurred.

 

[CaptainInsano]

In our first game vs miami, Shaq throwing his elbow into the head of Amare not once but twice, and both times Amare being called for a foul.

It literally seemed to take Amare a few games to settle down after this riled him up so much.

 

[azirish]

It would be more of a challenge to have a thread about games that did NOT have some really bad calls.

Actually, the bigger problem is not blown calls, but inconsistency. The TV guys talk about how Nash still doesn't get any respect when it comes to getting calls when opponents foul him pretty hard while other guys get calls with minimal contact.

 

[Chaz]

Steve Nash rebounds the ball in the closing seconds of tonights game and feeds LB down the court. The Sacramento neglects to reset the Sacramento shot clock and it goes off as LB is receiving the pass, startling him. He fumbles the ball out of bounds.

The play was called as a turnover on the Suns.

The correct call according to the rule book is to stop play the moment the clock sounds and award the ball to the defensive team--in this case the Suns since it was Sacramento's shot clock that was still running. Here is what the official NBA rule book states.

k. Whenever the 24-second clock reads 0 and the ball is dead for any reason other than a defensive three-second violation, kicking violation, punched ball violation, personal foul or a technical foul by the defensive team, a 24-second violation has occurred.

Actually Marion rebounded the ball and Steve passed it to LB.

There was no 24 second violation. The error was the clock managers not the referees. LB should have finished the layup. It is not the refs fault he lost the ball.

When the buzzer sounded the Suns were the offensive team not the defensive.

 

[jbeecham]

This might be the longest thread in the history of the board by the end of the season.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Actually Marion rebounded the ball and Steve passed it to LB.

There was no 24 second violation. The error was the clock managers not the referees. LB should have finished the layup. It is not the refs fault he lost the ball.

When the buzzer sounded the Suns were the offensive team not the defensive.

The clock immediately stops play according the rules--just like an inadvertent whistle.

 

[hafey]

There was no shot clock violation. Possession had changed. Thats why the clock went off while Barbosa was on the other side of the court.

 

[jbeecham]

There was no shot clock violation. Possession had changed. Thats why the clock went off while Barbosa was on the other side of the court.

The refs stop play for shot clock errors all the time and make the team with the ball inbounds and start over. The only difference here is that the shot clock buzzer caused LB to fumble the ball out of bounds, but the refs ignored the clock error even though it occurred before the turnover (it occurred when Marion got the rebound and it wasn't reset).

 

[Chaz]

The clock immediately stops play according the rules--just like an inadvertent whistle.

The Suns were not the defensive team. They could not be awarded the ball for a 24 second violation that never occurred.


LB lost the ball. It is unfortunate that it coincided with an inadvertent whistle/horn but it doesn't change the fact of the turnover by the Suns.

The refs did not make an incorrect call in this instance.

 

[TheHopToad]

I gotta agree that there was no violation by the referee. NBA players can't be "startled" by noises to the point of losing the ball in an open court. Heck, if that's all it takes, then some fan with courtside seats could just yell "Boo!" as he's running down the court.

Play until the referee whistles play stopped.

 

[Stargazer]

This really could be a long thread. I have to say, I actually have less of a problem with "blown" calls than with unconscious bias. If the refs just miss a call, like yesterday with the buzzer, I just think of it as the equivalent of a random bad bounce of the ball or something. I figure they will even out over time, and even if a blown call decides a game here or there, the truth is that any game that's so close that it's decided by one thing is a virtual tie anyway, and will effectively be decided by all of the little random bounces and so on that go into a game.

But what doesn't even out over time are things like the refs systematically favoring offense over defense, or changing the rules in the playoffs, and so on. Those kinds of things really do help some teams over others, and can really detract from the enjoyment of the game.

 

[Errntknght]

k.

Whenever the 24-second clock reads 0 and the ball is dead for any reason other than a defensive three-second violation, kicking violation, punched ball violation, personal foul or a technical foul by the defensive team, a 24-second violation has occurred.

This rule doesn't apply if the ball is not dead when the shot clock expires - read it carefully. It isn't well written though because it doesn't distinguish the case where the shot clock reaches 0 legitimately and when it reaches 0 in error - as happened on the play in question.

 

[JCSunsfan]

The Suns were not the defensive team. They could not be awarded the ball for a 24 second violation that never occurred.


LB lost the ball. It is unfortunate that it coincided with an inadvertent whistle/horn but it doesn't change the fact of the turnover by the Suns.

The refs did not make an incorrect call in this instance.

The refs made the call right in exactly the same situation last night. The Suns rebounded the ball, had a wide open feed down the court to LB. As Nash makes the pass, the 24 second clock goes off. The refs immediately stop the play and give the Suns the ball out of bounds.

Its hard for me to believe anyone is even arguing with this.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

I always felt that was one aspect the refs were very consistent with. Whenever the 24sec buzzer would go off, even if the other team had the ball and was in transition, the play would stop immediately, the violation announced, and the ball taken out from the side.

The refs dropped the ball almost as much as barbosa did on that play in Sac.

 

[Maligzar]

This thread is a great example of how fans get upset over "blown calls" when really the correct call was made to begin with.

 

[hafey]

Exactly.

 

[Chaz]

Its hard for me to believe anyone is even arguing with this.

I can't believe you somehow think Barbosa didn't turn the ball over in Sacramento.

 

[Mainstreet]

If Barbosa had possession of the ball when the clock went off it's Suns ball because possession should have been frozen that instant. If Barbosa did not have possession of the ball then it's just an inadvertent turnover.

 

[zett]

barbosa's turnover was an exact result of the shot clock going off and the suns should of recieved the ball on the side, this game had so many missed calls we got more calls in the 1st half of that game then in any game all last year, for a whole game! sac got the best of the calls second half. but that was flat out ugly as far as ref's were concerned!

 

[Cheesebeef]

I can't believe you somehow think Barbosa didn't turn the ball over in Sacramento.

I'm with you - when Barbs turned after the play, the look on his face wasn't bewliderment (like what just happened?), it was upset because he knew he just blew it. At least that's what it looked like to me, my non-Ouchie Bro and apparently Chaz.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I'm with you - when Barbs turned after the play, the look on his face wasn't bewliderment (like what just happened?), it was upset because he knew he just blew it. At least that's what it looked like to me, my non-Ouchie Bro and apparently Chaz.

It was the same play, two nights in a row, same opponent, two different calls. So do you believe the call was blown in the second night then? Or do the refs have the liberty to make that call any way they feel like at the moment?

BTW. I'm not upset about this. We won both games. Its just that this exemplifies the problem with the NBA. Is there even a specific rule about this? It is obviously not called consistently.

Well, at least we no longer have that silly illegal defense call. Defensive 3 seconds is a much better alternative.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'm gonna love this thread.

 

[Errntknght]

The reason for the different calls is explained by the refs judging that the Suns had control of the ball when the shot clock sounded in the first case, which was clearly the case, and the Suns not having control when it sounded in the second - I thought we had the ball in time but it was much closer than the first case.

 

[azirish]

Slight change in subject. Can anybody explain the rule on charging?

In the second Kings game, Amare was driving around his man, the guy jumped in front of him without being even close to setting his feet and Amare was called for a charge.

1. Doesn't the defender have to his feet set?

2. Doesn't the defender have to stand straight and not lean into the path of the offense player?

3. Doesn't sticking out the legs constitute "tripping" rather than taking a charge?

 

[Lorenzo]

Bennett Salvatore is a jerk!!!!!!