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slanidrac16

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Murray/ Rosen , right or wrong? Taking Murray with our first pick says more about the ineptness of Keim and his staff than if we don’t take Murray and it turns out to be the wrong decision. Keim always talks about “sustainability”. Sustainability is another word describing today and tomorrow and the next day. Taking Murray will define a total failure at decisions made last year and magnify mistakes prior to last year trying to attain sustainability. It will expose a total lack of conviction. We traded up for Rosen. This F.O. believed they were drafting their qb of the future. And now after the debacle we called 2018 we are ready to throw your sure fire decision last year out the window? Coach K, you took this job knowing Rosen was your starting qb. I hope you’re not sitting in the war room claiming we need Murray to make this work. We’ll see how much conviction Keim and this F.0. has in past decisions. Mr. Keim, if you don’t have conviction in decisions you made just one year ago, why the hell should we believe in any decisions you make this year? And why should your players? You chose a qb last year. Now build the team around him.
 
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slanidrac16

slanidrac16

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Talking about ineptitude or failure its premature
I respectfully disagree. We constantly look back at past decisions and scrutinize decisions made today. Keim traded 3 picks to get Rosen. To bail on Rosen might be the right thing to do ( we’ll see) but what does it say about trust in his own decisions?
 

BW52

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Bailing on Rosen at the same time NKemdiche is given years to become a impact player would show me Sk has lost his freaking mind and needs to kicked out ASAP.I know its a different playing position but the fact is very rarely does someone bail on a RD1 pick after 1 year especially after the circumstances last season.
 

Veer

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We were sitting at pick #15 last year, in danger of going into the season with Bradford/Glennon of all people. Rosen fell to #10. We traded up without giving up any future picks, hence we managed to keep our 2nd round pick in that draft (Kirk).

If Murray is deemed a much better prospect, much better fit, nobody can fault Keim for cutting ties with Rosen. We needed a young franchise QB last year and got Rosen for relatively good value. But several other teams in need of a QB passed on Rosen for one reason or another. Rosen is a legit QB prospect. Nobody could expect that we have the 1st overall pick in 2019. Three months ago we didn't even know whether Murray would enter the NFL draft and pursue a football career. If Murray is deemed a great prospect by our FO, we must take him. QB is just too important to pass on an upgrade in potential. Especially if KK is on board with the pick.
 

PACardsFan

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Murray/ Rosen , right or wrong? Taking Murray with our first pick says more about the ineptness of Keim and his staff than if we don’t take Murray and it turns out to be the wrong decision. Keim always talks about “sustainability”. Sustainability is another word describing today and tomorrow and the next day. Taking Murray will define a total failure at decisions made last year and magnify mistakes prior to last year trying to attain sustainability. It will expose a total lack of conviction. We traded up for Rosen. This F.O. believed they were drafting their qb of the future. And now after the debacle we called 2018 we are ready to throw your sure fire decision last year out the window? Coach K, you took this job knowing Rosen was your starting qb. I hope you’re not sitting in the war room claiming we need Murray to make this work. We’ll see how much conviction Keim and this F.0. has in past decisions. Mr. Keim, if you don’t have conviction in decisions you made just one year ago, why the hell should we believe in any decisions you make this year? And why should your players? You chose a qb last year. Now build the team around him.

Rosen was the 4th QB taken last year & the Cardinals had to take that risk to trade up to get him. No one ever said he was a "sure fire" solution. Blame Keim all you want, but Wilks was MB's pick last year. With a better coaching staff, we probably would have won at least 6 games last year & then Murray wouldn't even be an option right now. Even with a crappy OLine, crappy coaching staff, crappy WR's, Rosen still didn't help his cause at all. The reality is that they have the 1st pick in the draft. That pick has to be an impactful one. Like it or not, Murray's talents put him in that "impactful" spot. Whatever happened last year or the year before no longer matters.
 

dscher

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Murray/ Rosen , right or wrong? Taking Murray with our first pick says more about the ineptness of Keim and his staff than if we don’t take Murray and it turns out to be the wrong decision. Keim always talks about “sustainability”. Sustainability is another word describing today and tomorrow and the next day. Taking Murray will define a total failure at decisions made last year and magnify mistakes prior to last year trying to attain sustainability. It will expose a total lack of conviction. We traded up for Rosen. This F.O. believed they were drafting their qb of the future. And now after the debacle we called 2018 we are ready to throw your sure fire decision last year out the window? Coach K, you took this job knowing Rosen was your starting qb. I hope you’re not sitting in the war room claiming we need Murray to make this work. We’ll see how much conviction Keim and this F.0. has in past decisions. Mr. Keim, if you don’t have conviction in decisions you made just one year ago, why the hell should we believe in any decisions you make this year? And why should your players? You chose a qb last year. Now build the team around him.
Failure is only failure when you don't learn from your mistakes.. maybe Keim meddled too much and didn't trust enough of his coaches input in the past. Maybe he did. But my point is , this would be a way of learning and growing from his failure and turn it into success by listening to his new coach, if said coach wants Murray at #1.

Even if Keim wants Williams per se... Maybe he needs to pull a Costanza and do the opposite of what he wants to do...then it will all work out in the end. Haha. Just my opinion.
 

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We were sitting at pick #15 last year, in danger of going into the season with Bradford/Glennon of all people. Rosen fell to #10. We traded up without giving up any future picks, hence we managed to keep our 2nd round pick in that draft (Kirk).

If Murray is deemed a much better prospect, much better fit, nobody can fault Keim for cutting ties with Rosen. We needed a young franchise QB last year and got Rosen for relatively good value. But several other teams in need of a QB passed on Rosen for one reason or another. Rosen is a legit QB prospect. Nobody could expect that we have the 1st overall pick in 2019. Three months ago we didn't even know whether Murray would enter the NFL draft and pursue a football career. If Murray is deemed a great prospect by our FO, we must take him. QB is just too important to pass on an upgrade in potential. Especially if KK is on board with the pick.

I do not appreciate this ******** smokescreen when it seems to have no benefit whatsoever when they hold the number one pick. The Cardinals putting Rosen through hell just to tempt the Raiders to move up when the Raiders have Carr and Mayock who likes a bevy of picks is fanatical and irrelevant to tempt the impulsive Gruden who can screw up without any help to this extreme on his own. There is too much top notch defensive talent to worry about a smoke screen when you hold the number one pick but not a talent one would then consider moving up for. Murray too if not the selection is being played by the hype machine, as much as Rosen if he does not know. I smell the NFL and their desire for ratings by pressuring teams to act undecided when they all know right now along with even having their ulterior countermoves probably in place as we speak. The teams have known their game plans for at least a month now unless they are ran by complete morons... bring on the draft and not this contrived drama
 

tnmike

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Murray/ Rosen , right or wrong? Taking Murray with our first pick says more about the ineptness of Keim and his staff than if we don’t take Murray and it turns out to be the wrong decision. Keim always talks about “sustainability”. Sustainability is another word describing today and tomorrow and the next day. Taking Murray will define a total failure at decisions made last year and magnify mistakes prior to last year trying to attain sustainability. It will expose a total lack of conviction. We traded up for Rosen. This F.O. believed they were drafting their qb of the future. And now after the debacle we called 2018 we are ready to throw your sure fire decision last year out the window? Coach K, you took this job knowing Rosen was your starting qb. I hope you’re not sitting in the war room claiming we need Murray to make this work. We’ll see how much conviction Keim and this F.0. has in past decisions. Mr. Keim, if you don’t have conviction in decisions you made just one year ago, why the hell should we believe in any decisions you make this year? And why should your players? You chose a qb last year. Now build the team around him.
Over analyzing at it's best
 

GatorAZ

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If Keim has full control of the draft Murray won’t be a Cardinal. Not only did he move up for Rosen but he’s old school/traditional like most GM’s. He would’ve love Mayfield; alpha/fiery leader with years of experience... The only way the Cards take Murray is if Kingsbury pounds the table for him and MB obliges, IMO.
 

CardsFan88

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Bailing on Rosen at the same time NKemdiche is given years to become a impact player would show me Sk has lost his freaking mind and needs to kicked out ASAP.I know its a different playing position but the fact is very rarely does someone bail on a RD1 pick after 1 year especially after the circumstances last season.

It's not all about bailing on Josh Rosen, it's about potentially finding someone better at the most important position. You can have 10 DL in a rotation, but only 1 QB generally plays sans injury. That's why guys at other positions are there. They have contracts and play positions where they can contribute on a regular albeit lesser basis if they don't start.

The thought is by many that if we draft Murray, Rosen is gone because he won't otherwise play. Most are assuming because of that, and also because of potential Rosen pitching a fit, that we would be forced to trade him. That is also an assumption. One that doesn't seem to be holding up given the recent interviews and how well he is publicly putting up a good front. If he can do it now, he can do it later.

There is also the possibility, however some may discount, that we could carry Murray and Rosen this year (and potentially longer). There is also the possibility that Rosen starts training camp as the starter and Murray has to beat him out, which he may or may not do. Having 2 QB's is a luxury that has even recently won a team a Superbowl. Utilizing such a luxury doesn't always happen, but in the chance you need one, you'll be glad you have one. It's a possibility we could have that luxury, unless a team offers us something to give up that luxury.

What many are forgetting in their analysis, is that we have the #1 pick, where QB's get taken. They obviously know, but I don't think it's really set in what it means.

This is a very rare spot to be in. We've all seen many, many, many horrible seasons, but few of us were even alive the last time we've taken #1. The opportunity for us right now is far different than in any other season. Trying to make sense of the #1 pick using conventional means simply doesn't apply. We're here now, not in 2020 or 2021. We're not going to have a shot at Tua or Lawrence even if we don't take Murray. We're not. Rosen's rookie season could be an abberation, but it also in no way screams, pass on a top prospect if you can select one.

Using a 1st, 3rd, and a 5th for Rosen only to potentially drafting a replacement the next year doesn't matter, because we had no way of knowing we'd have the #1 pick. We had no QB except Bradford. Given what we knew at the time, Keim made the right choice. It was actually a really cheap trade up as well, given it only cost us a net 3rd and 5th round pick. If Keim knew he'd have the #1 pick the next year, he probably wouldn't of drafted Rosen. Now that we do, all options should be on the table. If they aren't, they are running the team wrong.

Whoever they draft, they did their due dilligence, and I am glad they did. It was the right thing to do.

If we don't take Murray, and Rosen sucks, we're still never going to sniff Tua or Lawrence. Not unless we want to trade 3 first round picks, and even then, ONLY if the team holding the #1 pick doesn't need a QB. We'd be looking at the 2nd-4th best QB in whatever draft we would replace Rosen, if we even have to. But replacing Rosen if he fails WILL NOT BE EASY. It will never be as easy as the opportunity we have right now. Not even close.

This is our best shot to potentially get better at QB. Whether we take it or not remains to be seen, but we won't have a better shot to upgrade our QB in the draft like we do now for perhaps another 6 decades.

Sure we could get lucky in some future QB draft pick, but right now we have the pick of the litter, and that virtually assuredly won't be repeated. It's now or never. Never could be fine and the right choice, or a big mistake. They can only approach the process using the scouting and grading process they have with the people they have doing it. Whoever it says is the best player for this team and coaching staff (off or def) is who they should take.

Throw in the connection between the QB and our new coach, and that it is his first season, and those are traditional positives to selecting a QB. If an NFL team wants to draft a QB for their coach, the best season to do so, is year 1. Not year 3 when the seat is getting hot and you mortgage the future to do so.

They are likely also open to trades if a worthy one comes along. Who they may have decided to pick today, may not be who they ultimately select. I think they are letting the process play out and are going to take what they deem is the best direction when on the clock. If that's a QB or DL/DE or trade, we won't absolutely know until we're on the clock.

We're in a unique position, and that means whoever we select is a unique situation, and it shouldn't be looked at that we're suddenly down on whoever. It just means we have an opportunity to get better wherever on the team we want.
 

Chopper0080

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Becoming?? They have been pretty much that for 50 of the 56 years that I have followed them:bang:
The Browns, Jets, Bengals, and Lions have all made us look pretty good over the past 25 years. We had the Jake Plummer run. We had the Warner years. We had the Arians revival. All made us less of a joke. But the Browns have a really talented roster (though I am still a little skeptical), the Jets have Darnold, the Bengals have been 8-8 forever, and the Lions have Stafford.

If we hire a head coach who had a losing record in college, then take Murray thus getting rid of Josh Rosen a 1st round pick from the previous year, and Murray doesn't set the NFL on fire, it is going be very bad.

It will the Aints, Bungles, and Yucs territory.
 

Chopper0080

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Agree
With conservative decisions we did pretty well in the past
I get why people don't love Rosen, but I think most would agree that we probably saw the worst he can be last year. We won three games. Even if Rosen gets us to 6 wins, it at least gives Kingsbury momentum and room to breathe. If they take Murray and only win 3 games, it is pretty much over for everyone.
 

Delmar M Lewis

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Bailing on Rosen at the same time NKemdiche is given years to become a impact player would show me Sk has lost his freaking mind and needs to kicked out ASAP.I know its a different playing position but the fact is very rarely does someone bail on a RD1 pick after 1 year especially after the circumstances last season.
Add Reddick, Buchannonn a whole slew of others to the list like that so called cornerback from A and M
 

PACardsFan

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The Browns, Jets, Bengals, and Lions have all made us look pretty good over the past 25 years. We had the Jake Plummer run. We had the Warner years. We had the Arians revival. All made us less of a joke. But the Browns have a really talented roster (though I am still a little skeptical), the Jets have Darnold, the Bengals have been 8-8 forever, and the Lions have Stafford.

If we hire a head coach who had a losing record in college, then take Murray thus getting rid of Josh Rosen a 1st round pick from the previous year, and Murray doesn't set the NFL on fire, it is going be very bad.

It will the Aints, Bungles, and Yucs territory.

Understood. Other than 98, most of the Plummer years, we were still a joke franchise. I've said it a hundred time, and I'll stand by it until factually I have to eat crow. I'm far, far more convinced that Murray will set the NFL on fire than I am that Rosen will be a good/great QB. Rosen will require far more parts around him for the Cardinals to win at just the divisional level. Given the same amount of player investments, Murray will take us to much higher levels.
 

PACardsFan

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I get why people don't love Rosen, but I think most would agree that we probably saw the worst he can be last year. We won three games. Even if Rosen gets us to 6 wins, it at least gives Kingsbury momentum and room to breathe. If they take Murray and only win 3 games, it is pretty much over for everyone.

I would agree that your 1st sentence is accurate. But, Rosen was so bad, that it was unwatchable. In all my 50++ years watching this team, I had never just turned the TV off before. Last year was the first time. Even if Rosen improves a bunch, it doesn't make up for passing on a talent like Murray. I just don't see Rosen's ceiling anywhere near Murray's.
 

Chopper0080

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I would agree that your 1st sentence is accurate. But, Rosen was so bad, that it was unwatchable. In all my 50++ years watching this team, I had never just turned the TV off before. Last year was the first time. Even if Rosen improves a bunch, it doesn't make up for passing on a talent like Murray. I just don't see Rosen's ceiling anywhere near Murray's.
I agree the Rosen ceiling is not close to what Murray could be, but if you look at the NFL, many of those guys were not thought to have a huge ceiling.

RGIII had a higher ceiling than Luck.
Alex Smith had a higher ceiling than Rodgers.
Mitch Trubisky had a higher ceiling than Deshaun Watson.
Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning.

Jamarcus Russell had a huge ceiling.

So did Cam Newton.

So did Blake Bortles and Josh Allen.

I get the "ceiling appeal" of Kyler Murray. But his floor is low. He is a boom or bust pick with significantly more ways to fail than ways to succeed.
 

Jetstream Green

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I would agree that your 1st sentence is accurate. But, Rosen was so bad, that it was unwatchable. In all my 50++ years watching this team, I had never just turned the TV off before. Last year was the first time. Even if Rosen improves a bunch, it doesn't make up for passing on a talent like Murray. I just don't see Rosen's ceiling anywhere near Murray's.
Whatever...
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Arz101

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Mad respect to the organization for releasing two videos in two days with Rosen out and Rosen in.
 

Garthshort

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A Clown organization? Maybe. But maybe not, if Murray's NFL work approaches his Oklahoma work. The draft is uncertain, but what is not uncertain is that we need better QB play in 2019. It wasn't all Rosen's fault, but when it comes to the KK offense, TM seems better suited. Assuming he's the pick we'll have a pretty good idea this summer. I loved watching TM at Oklahoma.
 

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We were sitting at pick #15 last year, in danger of going into the season with Bradford/Glennon of all people. Rosen fell to #10. We traded up without giving up any future picks, hence we managed to keep our 2nd round pick in that draft (Kirk).

If Murray is deemed a much better prospect, much better fit, nobody can fault Keim for cutting ties with Rosen. We needed a young franchise QB last year and got Rosen for relatively good value. But several other teams in need of a QB passed on Rosen for one reason or another. Rosen is a legit QB prospect. Nobody could expect that we have the 1st overall pick in 2019. Three months ago we didn't even know whether Murray would enter the NFL draft and pursue a football career. If Murray is deemed a great prospect by our FO, we must take him. QB is just too important to pass on an upgrade in potential. Especially if KK is on board with the pick.

The over/under for wins last season was 5.5 so plenty of people felt the Cardinals would be in the running for the top pick.
 

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