Richardson trade revisited
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carrrnuttt
Didactic
I beg to differ on both counts. J Dudley in his short, recent stints, has shown at least twice as much defensive capability as Bell had when he left, and seems to be a match for Diaw on rebounding, if not better.
jagu
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Diaw is a woman. Richardson is a man.
Rab
Angry Vedder
Hmm, we got rid of a malecontent below average performing player who wanted to be traded in Raja, and a $9 million role player who's effort was constantly questioned, and brought in an athletic two guard with size who can shoot from distance, and create for himself. J Rich has really only had 1 bad shooting performance since coming over and that was against the Grizz a couple nights ago. However, I loved the defense he played on Mayo, and Rudy Gay when he covered him.
Still love the trade.
Still love the trade.
Same here. Loved the trade from day 1. I love what Raja and Diaw brought in past years but it was time to move them. A very good trade in my eyes. We get a bonafide shooting guard who can shoot the 3 and create and has size and athleticism. We get a young front court energy role player with room to improve and a 2nd round pick while getting rid of an awful contract. I wish Raja and Boris all the best and I'm very happy to have J-Rich and Dudley here! Good job by the front office!
Glad Diaw is gone, I still LOVE this trade!!
Not only are we now winning head to heads against other shooting guards (5 of 8 since the trade), but what used to be our worst position (SG) in Opponents PER (was around 19.0) is now our second best defensively (17.8). JRich > Raja defensively this year.
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nowagimp
Registered User
Couldnt you have waited a few more days, you know to let the memory of branden Roy torching JRich for 52, to fade before you make a statement like this?
No because everybody gets torched as some point in the season. I think this is a good sampling of games. Should I list all the people that Raja has been torched by? Raja has only won 3 of 7 in head to heads since the trade and was 3 of 15 before he left. That's means Raja overall this season is 6 wins and 22 losses in head to heads for the season and we are almost at the All Star Break. We also improved the SG position Oppenant per from worst on the team to 2nd best. Jrich overall is 11 for 18 for the season. What more do you want?
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mojorizen7
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Nowagimp is DA's guy and Raja was DA's guy so there's really no use in describing how bad Raja's game had become or how the SG position was upgraded with JRich.
Thats ok though,i can't say that my own judgement hasn't been clouded by association before, on matters such as these...
JRich would have to become Bruce Bowen part II AND avg 30 ppg to convince Gimp that the team has improved at this particular position.
Thats ok though,i can't say that my own judgement hasn't been clouded by association before, on matters such as these...
JRich would have to become Bruce Bowen part II AND avg 30 ppg to convince Gimp that the team has improved at this particular position.
nowagimp
Registered User
Mojo, your thinking is so elegant and simple, you should be coach. Or perhaps its not that simple, that players that are good defenders arent good scorers and visa versa. Very few top scorers are all NBA defense(kobe?), and I doubt JRich ever had even one vote there. I cant remember tha last time someone dropped 50 on Raja, perhaps it was kobe. Im pretty sure branden Roy has not even dropped 40 on Raja. When I remember that matchup the frustrating thing is how easily JRich was screened compared with Raja, its not about physical skills, only mental ones. Quoting the defensive PER with a "good sample" including the likes of oklahoma city, the clips, and the grizz on their 4th game in 5 nights is a laugher. Rajas defensive PER was 15.6 for all of last year in the terrible DAntoni defense -and you guys complained at that level- but now 17.8 is OK for Jrich. When JRich gets to 15.6 or so he will be equivalent defensively to Raja in the DA defense. As I've stated before, I like the offensive upgrade at the SG position, but steeldogs assertion that JRich is as good as Raja defensively is a big reach. Still this years suns with the porter defense are worse at defending guards than last years "no defense" approach of DAntoni. Sooner or later some of you guys are going to realize that in order to protect amare and shaq from fouls, the opponent guards are permitted to torch the suns in the defensive strategy. that is the price of keeping shaq and amare out of foul trouble, the soft underbelly of the suns defensive skill set on this roster, the pick and roll, or even switching on screens. JRich is an upgrade at the SG, but Im not sure that the loss of Diaw wont come back to hurt the suns in the interior defensively. I think Boris Diaw is going to do well in the future. He's shooting 50% FG's already at around 15ppg, Okafors FG% has risen by 5% since diaw joined the team, the lowly bobcats are 5-4 since the trade including a victory over the celtics, and the bobcats defense looks better than the suns at this time.
Funny since the trade Raja's defensive per for the opponents SG dropped from 19-16 already. I wonder if the bobcats call out the screens or switch better than the suns.
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Have you not noticed that we've been playing a lot crappier teams lately? Except for Portland who killed us at the SG spot. And the Spurs where the game winner came against JRich from the SG spot.
And Denver where JR Smith raped his from the SG spot, but they gave the head to head win to JRich because he had more assists or something I guess.
Are you saying we did not play any crappy teams while Raja was here?? If so, would you like me to make a list? Those same crappy teams were running circles around Raja.
Nobody is saying JRich is a world beater or best defender. Just that things have improved from the SG spot since he got here and we are winning most of our matchups now from the SG Spot. We were losing head to heads in spades while Raja was here.
We are now defending from the SG spot on this team 2nd best out of all the positions. From last to second best.
Great trade. Boris never would have done that with Amare here. And JRich is a great player in his own right...so Boris gets a lot of touches, and the Suns improve.
Win Win deal for both teams.
Win Win deal for both teams.
So you're really going to sit here and pretend that we don't have a much easier schedule now than when Raja was here?
Because Raja didn't take as many shots, therefore he didn't score as much. Even when he did a great defensive job, his opponent normally scored more, so they went down as winning the head to head.
For example, according to hoopstats, Raja lost this head to head against Roy http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketbal...ns-vs-portland-trail-blazers/2008-11-01/09/24. Even though he held Roy to .389 shooting and Raja shot .50. But Roy shot 6 more times and scored 20 while Raja scored 13.
Head to Heads is one of the most useless stats in all of sports.
This can only be a consequence of us playing crappier teams, since when we play good teams, we still usually get smoked from the SG spot. See Roy, Smith, Mason, even Bogans/Lee on the Magic.
I have no problem with anyone liking the trade, but it's just simply not true that we're better defensively from the SG position.
Bufalay
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He's a drunk driver.
Head to heads take more into account then scoring. It uses NBA Efficiency recap = ((Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks) - ((Field goals attempts - Field goals made) + (Free throws attempts - Free throws made) + Turnovers)).
Hardly useless.
Also, if we are not better defensively, please explain how Oppenent Per has gone from the worst on the team to the 2nd best from the SG position? Please explain how that number has dipped nearly 2 points per if not for playing better defense at the SG position?
I guess it's magic?
Andrew
flamboyantly righteous!
I think Richardson will be a Sun for awhile.
J Rich is a lot older tan Bell and Bell is mostly a catch and shoot guy. It looks like J Rich moves more without the ball and is a serious threat to go te basket or make alley oop plays.
Bell's defense was probably overrated lately and I think J Rich will improve as he get used to the Porter system. One thing that has my attention is how J-Rich is currently shooting over 52% for three since joining the Suns. Bell is shooting 43.3% for three with the Bobcats and just 39.4% overall since the trade.
Bell's defense was probably overrated lately and I think J Rich will improve as he get used to the Porter system. One thing that has my attention is how J-Rich is currently shooting over 52% for three since joining the Suns. Bell is shooting 43.3% for three with the Bobcats and just 39.4% overall since the trade.
YouJustGotSUNSD
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mojorizen7
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Well....Bell is very tan....like 3 coats of tan.
I didn't say it only takes into account scoring, but come on seriously, most of JRich's efficiency rating is obviously going to come from his scoring. Since Bell had much less of a focus on the offense, he's going to score less and have less assists and be less likely to win head to heads because of it. Your stat doesn't take into account whether a player has a big role on offense or if he's just there to defend and shoot 3s. Which is why it's kind of useless. By your logic, Bruce Bowen must be one of the worst players to ever play the game of basketball and be someone that opposing players always dominate.
I also noticed that it doesn't take into account how many minutes a player plays or how many minutes a player plays against an opposing player. Nevermind, it's way beyond useless.
First, tell me where you're getting this stat from.
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nowagimp
Registered User
So far the disappointment with JRich is that his mid range game and finishing at the basket have been weak, he's shooting 52% from 3, but only 39% from 2 since the trade. Hopefully this is just due to the suns crappy, inaccurate passing. The suns need to get JRich more involved in the crunch in games. He is sometimes wide open from 3 and doesnt get a touch. When you shoot 52% from there(76% effective FGs), you have to give him the ball. By the way Bells defensive PER since joining the 'cats is 16 at the SG spot, better still than JRich. Bell is on the decline and JRich is a better '2'. Im just not sure about the loss of Diaw and its impact on the suns. If admundsen keeps playing or dudley suprizes, it will be nice. But diaw is already producing big for the bobcats, and is a much better defender than any sun at the PF position(11.7 opponents PER). I just wonder if the suns trashed diaws trade value by the way they used him.
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Probably, but Diaw needed to be a starter to be the most effective. He showed that the year Amare went down. However, he was never the same player coming off the bench. I just didn't see anyway the Suns would make him a starter in Phoenix. I guess the analogy comes to mind about pitchers in baseball. Some are starters and some are relievers. Diaw would have been a starter in baseball but an inconsistent reliever.
