Say Goodbye to Both Boldin and Dockett

[Mr.Dibbs]

The players didn't want to be traded, they wanted new contracts. It's not like just because they are getting traded, they are also getting new contracts.

True, but any team trading for them understands they aren't happy with their current deals and will have to provide them with a new contract, or else they are just trading for someone else's problem.

 

[Mitch]

I'd hate to see Quan go, but for a 1st and a decent WR I could understand the business side of it and be okay with it. The Cards have committed to Fitz, so it would make sense.

Again, I think Norwood and Atlanta's 2nd would make sense, but I personally think Dockett is going to have a huge year and would like to see him do it as a Cardinal. But in both these cases you are at least getting high draft picks and players who were productive, so it doesn't sting as much.

If these trades are made, doesn't it seem that the Cards are letting Drew R. have his way? It seems to tell his clients if you aren't happy the Cards will trade you...

Good question about Rosenhaus.

Let's see what happening in Cincy with Ocho-Cinquo...all the fuss and stink he's put up with Rosenhaus at his side...anyone here think this is helping the Bengals move forward? Now...it's reported he's having surgery on both his ankles and should be ready by training camp...the saga continues...and who suffers most: The Cincinnati Bengals.

If Rosenhaus can get Q to act out of character, he can get to anyone. Q should have been better than this...but Q can no longer be taken seriously as leader of this football team, not when his teammates have tolied in the heat while he was in some swimming pool.

If the Cards can get fair value for Q...especially now that he's hot on the market, for a number of reasons they likely should.

 

[SuperSpck]

Which agent represents Crayton & Norwood? If the answer is anyone other than DR, I would be okay with it.

JTS

Of course this list depends on how much you trust Wikipedia as a cultural authority, but:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Athletes_represented_by_Drew_Rosenhaus

 

[Mr.Dibbs]

Don't get me wrong on this: I think Drew R is one of the worst things to ever happen to sports. But what's a team to do? It would be great to see all the NFL teams refuse to negotiate with any of his players unless they changed agents.

It's really a vicious circle- he gets a player to hold out for more money, often a record amount, and then turns to his other clients and says "you should be getting that kind of money." So then they hold out, and on, and on, and on.

 

[ajcardfan]

Mitch has been my source for all things F.O. I will continue to trust his insight until he is proven wrong.

Mitch is like Nostradamus. He writes so much stuff, a little of it turns out to be right by accident.

 

[Skkorpion]

I am new to asfn so i dont know if your pulling our legs.....but your reasons are sound.

There has to be people in the org who are sick and tired of these 2.

bigdez, you'll soon learn who the jokers and instigators are. Right now, the board is dead. People are on vacation and nothing football-wise is happening. Lots of other posters will start showing up later.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Crayton on a new long term contract (which Dallas would absorb any remaining signing bonus and give Anquan his new deal) + A first round pick I would do in a moment. Even if you guaranteed me that the Cowboys would win the Super Bowl in 2009, I'd make that deal. That's just good business. Crayton can catch 60-70 passes for 800+ yards and 6 TDs, plus he'd start 14-16 games. You'd make up whatever else in passes to Edge or the tight ends.

Dockett for Norwood and a 2nd round pick is a suckers bet. One Pro Bowl DT makes you a decent team. Two Pro Bowl DTs and a below-average offense puts you in the playoff hunt in Week 17. Just ask the Minnesota Vikings and Jacksonville Jaguars. Dockett has no leverage, and he didn't miss much in offseason activities. He's also been one of the most durable players on our defense, and is an emerging leader.

On the other hand, runningbacks are a dime a dozen, and in Norwood you're inheriting a contract problem. I really like the player, but you're going to have to extend his deal before the end of the season, in all likelihood. The second round pick won't make up for the fact that if Dockett were available now, he'd fetch a mid-first round choice. Dockett doesn't have any leverage right now, but if he repeats his season, or gets 10-12 sacks and is consistent over 16 games, he'll have a legitimate claim that he's underpaid.

 

[slanidrac16]

I'm for anything that makes this team better and a winner. My loyalty to players are as deep as the players loyalty to the teamand the fans.
There's no reason in the world Q couldn't have attended the OTA's and the same goes for Dockett.
Bottom line is no team can play every player what they think they are worth. And until we win SOMETHING then I guess the players still have something to prove.

 

[vinnymac]

Dockett only had one sack in the last 8 games. He was an alternate pro-bowl player. Norwood is a back that is a threat to score when he touches the ball. It is not like Dockett is going to turn that defense around. There is a lot more that has to be done to that Falcons defense. I would pull the trigger on the Dockett/Norwood trade without hesitation.

On the Boldin trade, I would have to get a first round in 09,10, & 11 to compenstate the lost of Boldin.

 

[BigRedArk]

I'll take Crayton, the 'boys #1 pick in 2009, and James Marten for Quan. Nuttin less. We have leverage and we need to use it. Make Jerry pay up. We need another OT too.

 

[Stout]

I am sorry that I cannot reveal my sources...I was asked to refrain from doing so because one of the sources is related to a player agent (hereby unnamed).

When I heard these rumors, I too doubted the veracity of them...and, in part, I still do. But the inside specifics I heard (involving Todd Haley's input and his connection to Patrick Crayton, for example) made me think these rumors may have some merit to them.

There's another thing I haven't mentioned yet about the conversation I had...the person told me that the word is that Ken Whisenhunt is privately furious at both players (especially since the Cardinals have dealt in good faith with both players on contracts before) and honestly believes the team can win without them.

That said, I don't think the Cards are just going to trade them for trading sake...there are some puzzle pieces they are still searching for, like a speed back, a speed WR and another offensive lineman...which is why some of the names that were mentioned are intriguing.

I think Whiz understands very clearly that this year is very crucial from the standpoint that if he and his staff are going to take the Cardinals over the hump, they need to have all the players on board and fully committed. Whiz knows that if the team regresses this year as it has in past years following rare .500 seasons, it will be all the more harder to change the pattern of losing in Arizona for good.

What makes me very optimistic is how consistently competitive the Cardinals were last year, close game after close game, despite the wave of injuries the team incurred (to several key players, no less...Okeafor, Berry, Dansby, Wilson, Green, Leinart, Fitz, Q, Pope, Levi, AJ, etc.). For a first year head coach and staff to show such positives in terms of preparation, building depth and gutsy playcalling, was all the more impressive.

C'mon, Mitch, we're not going to hit it with you

 

[Cardinals.Ken]

I'll take Crayton, the 'boys #1 pick in 2009, and James Marten for Quan. Nuttin less. We have leverage and we need to use it. Make Jerry pay up. We need another OT too.

Too bad the Cards don't have anyone on the roster with "serious legal problems".

Guys like that make Jerry Jones giddy with anticipation.

 

[az1965]

Both of these players are out of their mind regarding contract. I love Boldin but if he doesn't show up for training camp then screw him. I don't care about Dockett.

 

[TruColor]

Too bad the Cards don't have anyone on the roster with "serious legal problems".

Guys like that make Jerry Jones giddy with anticipation.

Substitute J.J. Arrington for Boldin and we've got a deal!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I'm for anything that makes this team better and a winner. My loyalty to players are as deep as the players loyalty to the team and the fans.

Good Quote!


Maybe I will even hold out for the first two weeks of the season in rooting for Boldin. I am a fan and I have a right to demand for him to increase his production and stop dropping passes.
Until then.....you gotta talk to my agent who is (even though he doesn't know) 40yrfan. He is wise with experience.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Dockett only had one sack in the last 8 games. He was an alternate pro-bowl player. Norwood is a back that is a threat to score when he touches the ball. It is not like Dockett is going to turn that defense around. There is a lot more that has to be done to that Falcons defense. I would pull the trigger on the Dockett/Norwood trade without hesitation.

On the Boldin trade, I would have to get a first round in 09,10, & 11 to compenstate the lost of Boldin.

All right, vinny. Think of it another way. Dockett was arguably the best (maybe second- or third-best) player on our defense last season. With the return of Adrian Wilson, he'll at worst be the fourth-best player on our defense. Our defense was 17th in the NFL in yardage last season, but 27th in the NFL in scoring defense. Also, you would be removing the largest sack threat on the entire defense; no other Cardinal defender notched more than 6 quarterback kills.

So, take away one of the top players on the defense and without question the best player on the defensive line, and the defense is not going to improve. It would get much worse. In my opinion, the success of the Cards' season will depend on the scoring defense going from 27th to somewhere between 12th and 17th.

On the other hand, the Cards were the 12th best offense in yardage last season, and 7th in scoring offense. Would adding a decent second running back really make that much of a marginal improvement? Enough for a drastic reduction in defensive effectiveness? I personally don't think so. And a 2nd round pick isn't going to make up for that.

The deal that I would make with the Falcons is Norwood and their #1 pick in 2009. I think they'll be a little better next season, so a 3rd round back and a Top 15 pick would be good value for a Pro Bowl defensive tackle.

But I don't think a trade like that would happen. If the Cards wanted to upgrade at running back, they could have taken one much earlier than they settled on Hightower, and gotten a back that has a greater chance of contributing in the offensive packages.

 

[DaisyCutter]

Interesting note on proposed trade...

I thought I'd check FootballOutsiders.com to see how Norwood would stack up for the Cards if he came here. I was surprised to find that Norwood ranked 14th in the NFL in their DPAR (Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement) rankings in 2007, and he was 1st in DVOA (Value Over Average). He was ranked higher than guys like Frank Gore, DeAngelo Williams (a back I really like), and Ronnie Brown.

Over the course of the season, FO anticipates that Norwood (19.6 DPAR) would earn you almost 5 more points than Edgerrin James (14.8 DPAR). Both players are significant upgrades over Arrington and Shipp, who have negative DPAR values.

Interestingly, Edge had the same DPAR as Maurice Jones-Drew. I can't really explain why that would be the case.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb.php

For the other trade, Boldin ranked 16th in DPAR (22.4), while Crayton ranked 25th (17.7). This should surprise those that still feel that Anquan Boldin is one of the top 5 WRs in the NFL. Crayton plus a #1 pick would be a great value because the Cards would save money for an equivalent player. And they'd pick up a valuable draft pick.

 

[Buckybird]

Norwood is a back that is a threat to score when he touches the ball.

Yeah, he is sooooooooo good that the Falcons gave a boat load of money to make Michael Turner to be the every down back.

 

[Buckybird]

In my opinion, the success of the Cards' season will depend on the scoring defense going from 27th to somewhere between 12th and 17th.

Totally agree, give up less points and protect the ball and we will be in the playoffs!!!

 

[black]

DaisyCutter, you are on it my fellow fan!

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I thought I'd check FootballOutsiders.com to see how Norwood would stack up for the Cards if he came here. I was surprised to find that Norwood ranked 14th in the NFL in their DPAR (Defense-adjusted Points Above Replacement) rankings in 2007, and he was 1st in DVOA (Value Over Average). He was ranked higher than guys like Frank Gore, DeAngelo Williams (a back I really like), and Ronnie Brown.

Over the course of the season, FO anticipates that Norwood (19.6 DPAR) would earn you almost 5 more points than Edgerrin James (14.8 DPAR). Both players are significant upgrades over Arrington and Shipp, who have negative DPAR values.

Interestingly, Edge had the same DPAR as Maurice Jones-Drew. I can't really explain why that would be the case.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/rb.php

For the other trade, Boldin ranked 16th in DPAR (22.4), while Crayton ranked 25th (17.7). This should surprise those that still feel that Anquan Boldin is one of the top 5 WRs in the NFL. Crayton plus a #1 pick would be a great value because the Cards would save money for an equivalent player. And they'd pick up a valuable draft pick.

It is the Troy Hambrick effect in my humble opinion.

Remember when Troy Hambrick was going to be the next Cowboys RB after Emmitt Smith ?

His productivity was insane when he was splitting time with Smith. But once the start teams started to game plan against him, and Hambrick ended up doing ZERO!

Norwood would bring nothing to this squad and would be a HORRIBLE HORRIBLE move for the Cardinals to give up Dockett for.

 

[mjb21aztd]

No way does Boldin get traded we need him this year if we are to compete for anything

 

[BigRedRage]

C'mon, Mitch, we're not going to hit it with you

that pipe is awesome, the ingenuity of potheads to create smoking utensils from pretty much anything is rather amazing.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

Let me ask you, Mr. Dibbs, and everyone else...

If the Cards were offered WR Crayton and Dallas' 1st Rounder in 2009, for Boldin, would you make the trade?

If the Cards were offered RB Norwood and Atlanta's 2nd rounder in 2009 for Dockett, would you make the trade?

Yes and yes.

I would be sad, but the team would be vastly better.

Probably, and yes.

 

[abomb]

I thought I'd check FootballOutsiders.com...[/url]

Loves me some FO.