Search for a Big

[HooverDam]

So with Grant going down for who knows how long, and Amare already out, I think the Suns are hurting for players (especially bigs). After the starting 5, the only 3 really solid guys we have coming off the bench are:

Jones
Jackson
House

House is a good shooter, but little else. Jackson seems catywompus this year. Jones can play SF, but certainly isnt a big.

So with our TE, picks, etc is there any big out there (perhaps on a hopeless team looking for picks) that may be able to fit our system? Ive looked about on some NBA rosters, but no names jumped out on me.

 

[elindholm]

Hcsilla had a complicated proposal before to get Gadzuric. (It has to be complicated because of Gadzuric's BYC status.) His contract is pretty unfavorable, but he is easily the best prospect out there among players who might be available and might be in the Suns' price range.

 

[playstation]

don't forget barbosa too. that makes our bench 4 deep, which is actually pretty good. that being said, you're right, we need some sort of large human being on the team. right now our big men are a converted pf and a converted pg!

 

[nothin' but net]

don't forget barbosa too. that makes our bench 4 deep, which is actually pretty good. that being said, you're right, we need some sort of large human being on the team. right now our big men are a converted pf and a converted pg!

Would the league look the other way if we had Paul Shirley with Yuta Tabuse on his shoulders? He could be #00 with eye holes cut in the jersey. I know it is far fetched, but not much worse than some of the other proposals I have heard.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

right now our big men are a converted pf and a converted pg!

I am usually all for getting a big man, but I mean if it isn't broke - why fix it? At this point I would rather just wait until teams start getting desperate to make moves.

 

[HooverDam]

I am usually all for getting a big man, but I mean if it isn't broke - why fix it? At this point I would rather just wait until teams start getting desperate to make moves.

I agree, Im not talking about making a move with in the week or anything. Wait until a few teams have really discovered that they have no chance in hell, and are desperate for trades. I was just looking ahead to who that might be.

 

[scotsman13]

right now the price on big men is really high, you have denver, chicago and the lakers all looking for warm bodies if they are 6'9" or bigger.

 

[asudevil83]

IMO the only trade prospects we have on this team are:

JJax
our $3.6 million TA
the LA/Boston First
our 2006 First

after that, everyone else on this team is untouchable, not because of their skill, but because of their 1st year status on this team.

so, keeping that in mind, these are our options IMO ration from the most probable to the least:

1.) Melvin Ely: Bobcats - $2.4mil this seaon. he'd he a pickup that we'd use with either JJax+First or our TA+First. i honestly dont see us being willing to give up more than either JJax or our TA + a First rounder because this is the same team that we willingly gave up a decent First Rounder to give up Goog's contract.

2.) Etan Thomas: Wizards - $5.39mil. this guy would take at least a 3 team trade to complete. he's a 6'9-6'10 guy who'd definately fill the defensive void that this team leaves. the suns would have to give up a good amount to get this guy on the team.

3.) Chris Wilcox: LA Clippers - $2.8mil - it is certainly not in the interest of any team in a competing division to give up a player that could benefit a rival team. i honestly dont see the clips giving up wilcox to the suns for any reason unless it gives the clips ones of the suns lotto picks that they got from the hawks.

4.) Blount: Celtics - $5.5mil - another decent (and i use this term usely) man that the suns might use. it would definately take more than he's worth for the suns to take on this guys contract, so he's almost definately off the books.

5) Lorenzen Wright - $7.7mil - obviously this guy is pretty much out of the suns reach. he makes more money than would be reasonable for the suns to give up...and besides he's a FA after this season. he's obvously a desperation move.

6) Dan Gadzuric - Milwaukee Bucks - $4.7mil - i would love to see this guy on the suns. its almost impossible though, as Gad's is a BYC player though. it would take more than he's worth to bring him to the suns.

7.) Michael O. - another desperation pickup. the suns would most likely have to give up a first for a guy who'd probably be nothing more than a mid-season patch. i would rather not see him being picked up unless a desperate move HAD to be made.

8.) Chris Bosh - Toronto Raptors - i only threw him into the mix because the suns have picks. he comes from an Eastern conference team who is obviously struggling. if the suns were willing to give up both of their atlanta picks+either JJax or their TA, then they could pick him up. its a long shot, but definately possible IMO. imagine him + amare.....it would be heavenly.

 

[elindholm]

8.) Chris Bosh - Toronto Raptors - i only threw him into the mix because the suns have picks. he comes from an Eastern conference team who is obviously struggling. if the suns were willing to give up both of their atlanta picks+either JJax or their TA, then they could pick him up.

I doubt it. The Raptors will do everything in their power to keep Bosh. They won't start to panic unless he refuses to sign an extension next summer.

 

[F-Dog]

The remaining trade exception is the key, I think. If a team is looking to deal a useful big man, they'll be more interested in saving money than they will in receiving a disgruntled veteran like Jim Jax.

In fact, if the Suns get something for Jim Jackson, it will probably come over as a bad contract plus a prospect or draft pick. Some contending team (besides the Suns) will have to be decimated by injuries first, though.


Of those players, Ely is the only one who's realistic IMO, and it will definitely take a first-round pick to make it happen. I don't see that happening myself, not yet anyway.

 

[HooverDam]

8.) Chris Bosh - Toronto Raptors - i only threw him into the mix because the suns have picks. he comes from an Eastern conference team who is obviously struggling. if the suns were willing to give up both of their atlanta picks+either JJax or their TA, then they could pick him up. its a long shot, but definately possible IMO. imagine him + amare.....it would be heavenly.

Yah, dont see that happening as nice as it would be. I think they are trying to build around Bosh and Villenuva

 

[George O'Brien]

For some strange reason, the guys we like typically seem to popular with the teams they play on. Can't understand that.

IMHO, I can't see giving up a #1 unless the guy is someone expected to contribute NEXT year. I haven't seen enough of Ely to know if he's worth the price - especially if it means having to pay for his RFA status. The other guys are just not in the team's cap range.

As for JJax, I expect he will come around, but right now he seems to be totally ineffective - which really reduces his trade value. The TE is probably the better bet, but that means draft picks because there aren't that many teams above the luxury tax line.

 

[sunsfn]

12/03: Bucks rumor - just a rumor



BY GERY WOELFEL

There has been a rumor floating around the NBA for about a week now that the Milwaukee Bucks are interested in acquiring veteran shooting guard Voshon Lenard from the Denver Nuggets.
You can put that rumor to rest.
The Bucks, I’m told by insiders, are more than content with their current roster and don’t have any intentions of shaking it up. And why should they? The revamped Bucks are off to a surprisingly good start with an 8-6 record and improving by the minute.
Furthermore, the Bucks’ shooting guard position is more than fortified. Michael Redd is enjoying an All-Star type season – he is the NBA’s fifth-leading scorer at 25.9 points and shooting a blistering 53 percent from 3-point range - and Mo Williams, as he clearly demonstrated again Friday night with a career-high 35 point outing and game-winning 3-pointer against Washington, is more than an adequate backup.
One other rumor that can be squelched: backup big man Dan Gadzuric isn’t going anywhere now.
Gadzuric had seemed like the odd-man out in the Bucks’ rotation, and there were several teams that were interested in acquiring him, but with veteran power forward Joe Smith sidelined with knee problems, the Bucks simply can’t afford to jettison Gadzuric.
Smith, by the way, told me his left knee is still bothering him and added, “It’s not getting better.’’
As reported here earlier this week, Smith is destined to have surgery. He and Bucks medical officials are expected to meet today with a decision forthcoming.

 

[Mainstreet]

Okay, don't blow me away if I'm way off base.

However, on or after December 15th, isn't there some kind of provision that that players signed by other teams in the off-season can be traded. I'm not sure of the NBA provision.

Just to throw some brainstorming ideas out there, thereotically, could the Suns trade for Steven Hunter or better yet deal with our good friends, the Hawks, for Zaza Pachulia.

Elson might even be had from Denver for the right price since he appears to be not playing much there (I'm not sure if he is injured or not). I'm sure JJax would have to be part of the trade and at least a first round pick. And there is always the TE. I know many of these ideas are off the wall.

However, IMO, the Suns might well shore up their inside game with the addition of just a player like Fizer, Lonny Baxter or the often talked about Lonnie Jones.

The point I'm trying to make, there are probably alot of options out there for another 4/5 that may soon be available that the fans may not have even thought about.

Also I know it would not help the Suns now, but even Nene might be had on the cheap while he is recovering from his ACL surgery. Once Nene recovers his value will probably just go up again.

Or, how about getting Fizer now and trading for Nene for the future.

 

[myrondizzo]

lonnie jones anyone?

 

[Chaplin]

Okay, don't blow me away if I'm way off base.

However, on or after December 15th, isn't there some kind of provision that that players signed by other teams in the off-season can be traded. I'm not sure of the NBA provision.

Just to throw some brainstorming ideas out there, thereotically, could the Suns trade for Steven Hunter or better yet deal with our good friends, the Hawks, for Zaza Pachulia.

Elson might even be had from Denver for the right price since he appears to be not playing much there (I'm not sure if he is injured or not). I'm sure JJax would have to be part of the trade and at least a first round pick. And there is always the TE. I know many of these ideas are off the wall.

However, IMO, the Suns might well shore up their inside game with the addition of just a player like Fizer, Lonny Baxter or the often talked about Lonnie Jones.

The point I'm trying to make, there are probably alot of options out there for another 4/5 that may soon be available that the fans may not have even thought about.

Also I know it would not help the Suns now, but even Nene might be had on the cheap while he is recovering from his ACL surgery. Once Nene recovers his value will probably just go up again.

Or, how about getting Fizer now and trading for Nene for the future.

While Fizer, Baxter and Jones are somewhat possible, the rest of your post is not even worth considering. The Nuggets will not trade away Nene, and we won't trade for him. Francisco Elson worth Jim Jackson AND a first?? Hello?? Are you kidding me?

Zaza isn't going anywhere either. The Hawks are dumb, but not THAT dumb. And we won't be getting Hunter back either.

 

[elindholm]

How about Duncan? He's pretty good. I think the Suns should go after him.

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm always curious about the motivation behind totally unrealistic trade proposals (yes, I know Eric is being sarcastic). To me, the first part of any trade discussion has to be about why the other team would be willing to give up the desired player. Here are a few reasons I would look for:

1. Player is not happy and requests to be traded.

2. Player is in the last year of the contract and the team does not want to pay the expected price.

3. Player is a backup and not a good fit for the direction the team is going.

4. Another, usually younger, player is emerging and the team wants to give the other player the minutes.

5. Team needs to clear cap space.

6. Team is rebuilding and looking for draft picks.

7. Player has been disappointing and the team wants to get something for him before his value falls to zero.

Without a good reason to think the team would make the trade, all that is left is a proposal to overpay or a belief that the other team's GM is an idiot. That's pretty pointless.

 

[devilalum]

The Suns need to find another Boris Diaw. A guy who the SUns like but isn't popular in his current situation.


Diaw was practically a throw in from the Hawks perspective.

The perfect player for the Suns to steal will be a player you may have barely ever heard of.

 

[Chaz]

How about Duncan? He's pretty good. I think the Suns should go after him.

Eh, he is slow and over the hill.

I think Camby or Garnett would be a better fit.

 

[elindholm]

I think Camby or Garnett would be a better fit.

I thought you wanted someone who could play center, so that rules out Garnett.

The Suns need to find another Boris Diaw. A guy who the SUns like but isn't popular in his current situation.

Cabarkapa?

Jokes aside, I agree that it would be great to find someone like that. Diaw's situation is extremely unusual; his success seems more "system-dependent" than at least 90% of the players in the league. For big men, since what they are asked to do doesn't vary as much as it does for wing players, my guess is that such "diamonds in the rough" are even harder to find. The two examples people like to bring up are Jermaine O'Neal and Ben Wallace -- but when you figure that those are the only two good examples of the last 20 years, that reinforces the point of how rare they are.

 

[hcsilla]

How about Duncan? He's pretty good. I think the Suns should go after him.

He is OK., but would he co-exist with Amare?

 

[Neo]

How about Duncan? He's pretty good. I think the Suns should go after him.

We should put together of what is left of our exception, the rights to vujanic, JJax and a couple of second rounders and trade for that Duncan guy. If that doesn't work out we should get that O'Neil guy from Indianopolis.

 

[Mainstreet]

While Fizer, Baxter and Jones are somewhat possible, the rest of your post is not even worth considering. The Nuggets will not trade away Nene, and we won't trade for him. Francisco Elson worth Jim Jackson AND a first?? Hello?? Are you kidding me?

Zaza isn't going anywhere either. The Hawks are dumb, but not THAT dumb. And we won't be getting Hunter back either.

I threw these ideas out there as a brainstorming exercise. Typically in such an exercise people are encouraged to throw out ideas without undue criticism to encourage others to do so as well and see if there are any good ideas that emerge. Criticism usually tends to blunt participation.

Certainly I knew the Hawks are not likely to give up Pachulia. Re-acquiring Hunter (if possible) would just be ironic but not very likely. As far as Jim Jackson goes, he certainly does not presently seem to have much more value than an expiring contract unless a team needs a starting SG and can give him the minutes.

I am not so sure Elson would not be worth a protected first round draft pick for the Suns as they have may have four in the next two years and I'm not so sure the Suns are going to have to many better opportunities to add a big man. I have not even seen Elson play lately, but he did appear athletic when I did see him play. I'm not even sure why I am defending Elson as an option as I'm sure there are many better alternatives out there.

Anyway, I'm not saying I have the answer but making folly of acquiring Duncan, Garnett or Camby isn't even close to what I was talking about. I did mention some temporary fixes might be a Fizer, Baxter or a Lonnies Jones.

Anyway I like to hear different views and ideas. It is so much easier to criticize than be creative.

 

[elindholm]

Anyway I like to hear different views and ideas. It is so much easier to criticize than be creative.

The thing is, we have a thread about "available" big men every couple of weeks on this board. The possibilities have been examined pretty much to death:

Gadzuric: Could probably help, but his contract is bad and finding a permitted trade is very difficult, owing to his BYC status. On top of that, there's no particular indication that the Bucks want to let him go (especially with Joe Smith apparently on the verge of surgery).

Ely: A popular choice, could probably be had relatively cheaply, but some on this board feel that he doesn't provide what the Suns really need (specifically shot blocking). His focus and commitment are also a concern.

Wilcox: Another popular choice. Most feel that the Clippers won't trade him to a division rival. Others also think that he's undersized and not a good fit, especially on the defensive end. Finally, there is the recognition that if he were to join the Suns and play well, they probably wouldn't be able to afford him next summer.

Elson or Nene: The Nuggets aren't in a position to trade away any remotely promising big men.

Hunter: Doesn't rebound, can't play in D'Antoni's offensive scheme, and the Suns don't want to pay his contract.

Free agents: If they were any good, they'd already be on a team, with the remotely possible exception of Kemp.

Players already with major roles on their teams: The Suns can't offer anything sufficiently appealing in a trade. (Well, they could, but they aren't going to.)

I think we're all up for hearing about any new ideas -- I know I am -- but if it's going to be another rehash of the above list, chances are some people are going to express a little frustration. It's nothing personal.